Oswalt would erase A-Rod's numbers

[Guest JoesBros]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090210&content_id=3816176&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Gabe]

For the first time ever I will say, Oswalt is dumb

[baddog]

I read what Oswalt said and I see nothing dumb about any of it. At least he takes a stand and doesn't ride the fence.....wanting to crucify some and let others slide. I agree with what he said. Sorry, I don't like cheaters.

[Gabe]

then stop watching the game of baseball and rooting for probably 70-percent of the players of the steroid era. who is to say Oswalt was always clean? You can't anymore.

[baddog]

Nope, I got a plasma tv just to watch my Astros. I like players like Hunter Pence too much to stop viewing. Even if the Astros lose, I still like to watch the effort he brings. I can even do something in another room and come back in to see if Pence is up in the inning. If they win, they win, if they lose, they lose, but I still like Pence.

[YankeeDawg]

The whole of professional sports has gone to the friggin dogs... >

[mat]

For the first time ever I will say, Oswalt is dumb

His recommendation is too extreme but I certainly understand the frustration of those playing the game right.

Clemmons, Tejada, Arod, Bonds, Sosa, all suspect or confirmed, all past MVPs. (not to mention many others speculated)

I'm going to assume Roy and Burkman have played clean because I'm counting on them to not have the Clemmons arrogance as they stand on their bold soapbox.

I also assume those that have used in the past are sitting quietly in the corner holding their breath.

[baddog]

For the first time ever I will say, Oswalt is dumb

His recommendation is too extreme but I certainly understand the frustration of those playing the game right.

Clemmons, Tejada, Arod, Bonds, Sosa, all suspect or confirmed, all past MVPs. (not to mention many others speculated)

I'm going to assume Roy and Burkman have played clean because I'm counting on them to not have the Clemmons arrogance as they stand on their bold soapbox.

I also assume those that have used in the past are sitting quietly in the corner holding their breath.

I happen to like the extremity of his judgment. It keeps it in perspective and treats all involved the same. Instead of doling out individual punishments, where you will get into different levels of cheating ("I only cheated this much") you make a firm stand with zero tolerance. Everyone knowing the consequences will understand the magnitude of  the penalties for cheating and risking careers and precious records.

I hope you are right about Berkman too. I like him as much as Pence.

[Gabe]

It is too late to start some kind of past discipline act. Baseball allowed it to happen and now unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[mat]

It is too late to start some kind of past discipline act. Baseball allowed it to happen and now unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I don't know how to undo the done. MLB better work fast to handle damage control.

[venom33]

if were going to start taking away records,years, and stats we need to start way,way back when cobb sharpened his spikes and went into the bag spikes high so they wouldnt tag him.... cheating is cheating, correct???

[Gabe]

if were going to start taking away records,years, and stats we need to start way,way back when cobb sharpened his spikes and went into the bag spikes high so they wouldnt tag him.... cheating is cheating, correct???

And there is no telling what drugs were taking before steroids and other PEDs. How many other times did George Brett use too much pine tar?

[bullets13]

It is too late to start some kind of past discipline act. Baseball allowed it to happen and now unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do about it.

BINGO.

[Gabe]

Why not start taking wins away from teams too that had players involved? Couldnt and shouldnt that happen too in some people's logic? In that logic it would also have to happen.

I don't agree with it one bit but if you take away an individual's records, you would have to be fair and take away the team's records. IMO

[adminbaberuth]

roy needs to think before he starts talking. how many games has he won because of that juiced astro teamate homered to give him a win.

[baddog]

I bet any one of you on here defending these guys, would be the first one to cry foul if a high school team was found to have players using this stuff. You'd want games forfeited, especially if their win kept your team out of the playoffs. Heck, they forfeit games now for using inelligible players for something as minor as grades.

As for the Ty Cobb comment, you could take away his stolen base records and possibly his runs scored record. He has so many other records that he wouldn't even miss them.

I'm not sure you could punish the teams Gabe, because we all know they didn't know those guys were using.  

[mat]

Cheating is cheating but it's hard to compare cleats and pin tar to a physically altering, potentially addictive, totally illegal substance and has been fatal in extreme cases. I hate to sound like a broken record but what about the influence on our student athletes? JMO

And of course perjury is a whole other issue.

[bullets13]

roy needs to think before he starts talking. how many games has he won because of that juiced astro teamate homered to give him a win.

DING DING DING

[venom33]

roy needs to think before he starts talking. how many games has he won because of that juiced astro teamate homered to give him a win.

how many wins did his team get due to clemens?

[Gabe]

roy needs to think before he starts talking. how many games has he won because of that juiced astro teamate homered to give him a win.

There is a reason I respect you so much admin and you just nailed it on the head bro!

[venom33]

Cheating is cheating but it's hard to compare cleats and pin tar to a physically altering, potentially addictive, totally illegal substance and has been fatal in extreme cases. I hate to sound like a broken record but what about the influence on our student athletes? JMO

And of course perjury is a whole other issue.

i think the point was trying to be made that cheating has been going on in this sport for a long,long,long time! the asterisk should apply for ALL players past and present.

[Gabe]

put an asterisk with the teams too IF you put them on the players (which I don't ever want). Who cares if they knew or not?

NCAA teams don't know players talk to agents and the next thing you know the NCAA is stripping teams of wins and championships. Start doing that to pro teams and see how fast owners approve a VERY strict steroid rule.

[baddog]

It's been fun arguing with you guys. I really don't have any concrete answers for this situation, and I believe none of us do. I don't know where to draw any lines, but I can't have the HR king and a 7-time Cy Young winner keep their records if they are found guilty of juicing. We could kick this around all day, but that would always be my response.

Why is it that you want to excuse these guys but you are probably the same ones who voted for testing HS student athletes? Oh yeah, we're saving them from themselves. Aren't we the noble ones?

[Gabe]

That is apples and oranges in my book.

Of course I want HS students tested. I hope they realize they can't do it and don't start doing it at an early age. I just don't see what that has to do with keeping records for those who have been caught in the MLB.

You seem to think I don't mind players on steroids. I hate that it is there. I love baseball to death and can't stand it came to this. But it was there and there's not squat anyone can do. I've decided to forget it the best I can and never be shocked when someone is caught to have done it in the past. Now if they get caught with a positive test in the present time, then sure they should be penalized. But when an entire era was formed in the past, there is simply nothing you can do that would be equal for all parties.

[baddog]

I hate text. I didn't think you were necessarily pro steroid, but insensitive to their abuse anyway. I apologize for reading something into it that is not there. Again, I hate text....hence the apples and oranges confusion.