Nederland Bond

[ems2430]

Bottom line is that I hope people will be informed about the bond and then turn out and vote.  Apathy has been a problem in some recent elections and I hope this is not the case this time around.

[Guest Brubaker]

Smitty's not from Nederland.... but he is bitter about something.... all of the time.

[smitty]

And you too, my friend. 

Smitty, you have some valid points and I commend you for posting them.  Its good to be able to see opposing  sides of an issue.

[smitty]

Anyone for the bond issue will give you all kinds of good reasons -- which these will be up for debate -- for a massive tax increase.  First one has to look at who'll benefit, and I'm not talking about the kids, from these expenditures and who won't.  As I've said before, one can't just listen to someone who's on the bond committee or someone who's employed by the district because they are only going to give you reasons why this huge tax increase is the next best thing since kool-aid, huh, no pun intended.  Trust me, if this massive tax increase fails, Nederland will continue as an excellent school district.  And THEN, these so-called problems need to be addressed.  But not the way you think.  The taxpayers of Nederland publicly need to ask these people that were responsible for fixing these problems originally, why these problem weren't addressed when they arose and why they weren't taking care of their business.  And if they aren't asked, then maybe the problems weren't so big after all. But, again, trust me, the world will not end if/when this fails, irregardless what the doom and gloomers on this board say.

We got it Smitty, you don't want you tax to increase.  Do you want our kids in old decrepit buildings because your one of those guys that use to walk 5 miles to school without shoes in the freezing weather.  Do whats best for Nederland, in the long run this is the best thing we can do to make sure Nederland and NISD improves.

[westend1]

Same old pork story.  They don't want to you have the option to vote down the football field.  If you vote against the proposal, you hate the kids.  Already been there, in Beaumont.

[smitty]

This is my point all along.  When the pro-bonders say "do it for the kids" then you know they feel they are fighting a losing battle.  They've lost the intellectual battle now they have to try and tug on your heart strings.  Just stick with he facts.

Same old pork story.  They don't want to you have the option to vote down the football field.  If you vote against the proposal, you hate the kids.  Already been there, in Beaumont.

[ems2430]

The maintenance people at NISD have been working to keep the schools up.  The problem is there is little else they can do at this point.  You cannot say that you cannot listen to the voices of folks who are only on the bond committee because they will only try to sway you to vote for the bond.  That same argument can be made for anyone who opposes.  I support the bond, and yes, I am on the committee, and yes my taxes will increase just like everyone else.  The numbers regarding the tax increase that some bond opponents are distributing are just flat not correct.  They try to sell to argument against the bond based on the fact that we all will have to pay a 0.49 higher tax rate for the entire 30 years.  This simply is not the case.  The rate reduces as bonds are paid down, but it makes a better argument if you inflate the numbers.

Bottom line, the bond is for the kids, but it is also for the community as a whole.  A school district plays an integral role in the overall well being of a community.  Refusing to invest in the long term future of your community, while painful to some in the short term, is a mistake and the long term viability of your community (not just the kids, but everyone) will suffer. 

[The Ingredient]

I don't have a horse in this race but I'm gonna through out a few comments:

- A school district's budget is mainly made up of paying salaries and paying utilities.

      Neither of which can be skimped on.

- For the most part the district revenue from taxes stays the same, except for raising property values. So the leftover goes into maintenance/school improvements.

- Older buildings will cost more and more each year in utilities and maintenance. At some point in time the district will be robbing Peter to pay Paul to cover maintenance and buildings will delapidate.

To me the whole issue should hing on cost effectiveness and where you set your priorities for kids.

Do you make your kids ride in a 1972 Impalla hoopty rollin tailpipe draggin,with no air, terrible gas milage, safety issues just because it WILL get you where you need to go, or do you upgrade at some point? What about your home, ever move to a nicer home?

I hope everyone looks in the mirror and is not hippocritical just to be selfish and save a little dough.

[dawgnut]

Well, we'll see if the "shortsighted" taxpayer wants to be bled anymore.  As in all matter of taxes, the taxpayer will have the final say-so.  By the way, Dawgnuts, are you a taxpayer?

smitty you must have been born during the Lincoln administration because buildings do matter today! If you try to upgrade any building you have this little matter of ADA to contend with, new fire codes, wind storm codes just to start with. It's cheaper to tear the building down and start over. Kid's today use everything visual, you can go back to the chalk board if you want your kids to be dumb and rocks, but if you don't then you better have some realy cool technology. As far as the cost of the stadium upgrades, go ahead wait a couple of years and you can pay 2.5 for the same thing. Simple math in construction cost you wait, you pay more like it or not.

smitty I am not one of those folks that just talk trash. I pay taxes on multiple properties so I am not just going to get an increase one one house as most folks will! There is not any "shortsightedness" to it, some people can see beyond their own self indulgence and see what others need. My family has one more year in NHS so none of my children will benefit from the new buildings, I am not a contractor so I will not benefit from the buildings, but what I am is a taxpayer that can see if I don't do it now it will cost me more in the future.

[smitty]

Is that so?!  What's gonna happen if it fails?  The end of the world?  Kinda sounds like it according to you.  I have to disagree.

The maintenance people at NISD have been working to keep the schools up.  The problem is there is little else they can do at this point.  You cannot say that you cannot listen to the voices of folks who are only on the bond committee because they will only try to sway you to vote for the bond.  That same argument can be made for anyone who opposes.  I support the bond, and yes, I am on the committee, and yes my taxes will increase just like everyone else.  The numbers regarding the tax increase that some bond opponents are distributing are just flat not correct.  They try to sell to argument against the bond based on the fact that we all will have to pay a 0.49 higher tax rate for the entire 30 years.  This simply is not the case.  The rate reduces as bonds are paid down, but it makes a better argument if you inflate the numbers.

Bottom line, the bond is for the kids, but it is also for the community as a whole.  A school district plays an integral role in the overall well being of a community.  Refusing to invest in the long term future of your community, while painful to some in the short term, is a mistake and the long term viability of your community (not just the kids, but everyone) will suffer. 

[mat]

This is my point all along.  When the pro-bonders say "do it for the kids" then you know they feel they are fighting a losing battle.  They've lost the intellectual battle now they have to try and tug on your heart strings.  Just stick with he facts.

Same old pork story.  They don't want to you have the option to vote down the football field.  If you vote against the proposal, you hate the kids.  Already been there, in Beaumont.

Is it so hard for you to comprehend people that actually have the kids interest first? Does anyone that makes that statement have to have an ulterior motive?  ??? ???

[RustedCutlass]

Some people have only one motive, mat. It is green and will burn quickly in fire.

[Guest Brubaker]

I am voting for the bond because it's the best investment I can make in todays economy.  I've lost 55% of my 401K because I had it in investments that got hammered.  This bond is the most secure investment I can make today.  It will educate the kids in this community in state of the art schools and attract the best students.  It will also protect and enhance the biggest investment I and most people have... the value of the homes we live in.  This is a simple decision.

[ems2430]

Smitty, if I follow your argument, it begs a question for me.  When exactly would be a justifiable time to build new schools?

[NDNWarrior]

I am voting for the bond because it's the best investment I can make in todays economy.  I've lost 55% of my 401K because I had it in investments that got hammered.  This bond is the most secure investment I can make today.  It will educate the kids in this community in state of the art schools and attract the best students.  It will also protect and enhance the biggest investment I and most people have... the value of the homes we live in.  This is a simple decision.

Very well said!!!!

[smitty]

Not now in this economic down-turn.  And they would have to be a lot worst off then they are now.  Students are doing just fine with what they got.

Bru said he lost 55% in his 401-k, but willing to tack on more debt for his family.  This is what people are going to have to decide.  Dishing out 126 million dollar tax increase when people are losing their jobs and seeing their retirement accounts suck the big one is a little bizarre.  But, if you still don't mind this hefting tax bill -- well you are about to get a new hospital tax levied.  But hey listening to some, bring it on, more the merrier.  Then on top of that your home evaluations (tax increase) will be going up.  Plus taxes are about to go up on the Fed level with that socialist President we have. It's those of us who look at the bigger picture while some scrabble in their on little world.

If they would have ask for 1/4 of the amount and cut out the athletic stuff and used this for repairs, there probably would be no conversations here.  But, as most taxing entities do, they got greedy.  IMHO.  So, we shall see come election day.

]

Smitty, if I follow your argument, it begs a question for me.  When exactly would be a justifiable time to build new schools?

[mat]

I don't claim to know the athletic/stadium needs.

But on the lighter side; Am I the only one that finds it extremely ironic that there is so much opposition to turf and stadium improvements on this sports site/football thread?  ;D

[ems2430]

Smitty, the money needed for repairs wouldn't be a cheap price tag either.  Spending a large sum of money on old, outdated buildings that will have to be replaced sooner rather than later was, in our opinion, a waste of taxpayer money.  Spend a bunch of money to fix them now; get about another 10 years of life out of them, and then ask the taxpayers for money to replace them just doesn't seem wise.  As far as the economic downturn, remember that this money does not necessarily have to be spent immediately.  The election simply gives the board the authority to sell bonds.  I will restate, it is highly unlikely that all of the bonds will be sold at once.

Also, taxpayers over the age of 65 will see no tax increase.

[Guest Brubaker]

EMS...and the rest of this board... please stop bashing your head against the wall trying to REASON with SMITTY... the guy has AGENDAS and NOTHING else.  Read all of his posts, he ATTACKS NEDERLAND stuff... BIG FAT PERIOD.  He has attacked Neumann, Spell, the Nederland BOND... no transparency buddy... PITIFUL.  But, we'll praise you on the board for having an OPINION.

[Guest Penny]

Smitty, I often times wonder how many rational people agree with you.... nice KARMA!

[ems2430]

Bru, not really trying to reason with him, just want to make sure everyone understands the facts and thought process behind the bond.

[Bigdog]

He just can't stand to see districts that actually work and have a common purpose: the kids.  BTW hows that stadium coming in BMT?

[Guest Penny]

EMS, some people can't think objectively.  My favorite posts are from NHSLU87... changed him mind after listening to the facts and thinking rationally.  I am amazed everyday by people who have a hard time with that.  I'm investing in my city and voting for the bond.

[smitty]

It's only rational when one persuades someone else to have his/her money taken away from their family with a huge tax increase of 126 million dollars?  But those say here, "do it for the kids."  But with that, then these same people would have supported a 500 million bond issue.  Ridiculous amount you say?  Well to some people and their families 126 million dollars is a ridiculous amount.  So, where would the kool-aid drinkers draw the line?  Bizarre, so say the least.  But I'll defend your right to say it. 

But, I hope this so-called "rational" logic is strictly on this board, on the bond committee and employees of the district.  I've made a lot of valid points concerning this and were completely ignored.  Which I will be the first to say this bunch here does not stray far from the talking points.  Sometime being a good soldier is commendable.  But, on the other hand it could be disastrous, hence the kool-aid.

EMS, some people can't think objectively.  My favorite posts are from NHSLU87... changed him mind after listening to the facts and thinking rationally.  I am amazed everyday by people who have a hard time with that.  I'm investing in my city and voting for the bond.

[smitty]

So, when one disagrees with you this means the other has an evil agenda.  And your thoughts on every subject is 100% right and agenda free.  It appears  here with you and some, that you and others and not opposed to other ideas.  But what shocks you and others -- hence the rational comments, agenda rants -- is that there ARE other ideas.

I attack were I feel attacks are warranted.  And I applaud where praise is warranted.  I praised Neumann more then I attacked him.  Do I think he could have done some things different?  Sure.  But overall I feel he's done a good job.

But I feel the true agenda -- someway, somehow -- is with you.  I feel in some round-a-bout way you will benefit from the massive bond issue.  I don't know how, I don't know where, but I think it's there.  But to say someone like this and someone on the committee has objective views is, to say the least, a little disingenuous.  But if you in noway benefit directly, then I stand corrected.  But, on the other, if it is, then that's your business.  And I'll defend your right to do whatever it is you feel is right. 

Check my picture out.  It's a war eagle ready to do battle against those that attack our freedom.  And this includes opinions.

EMS...and the rest of this board... please stop bashing your head against the wall trying to REASON with SMITTY... the guy has AGENDAS and NOTHING else.  Read all of his posts, he ATTACKS NEDERLAND stuff... BIG FAT PERIOD.  He has attacked Neumann, Spell, the Nederland BOND... no transparency buddy... PITIFUL.  But, we'll praise you on the board for having an OPINION.