Nederland Bond

[LUFAN]

He is the one running care... this guy is a scumbag.... and so are the folks that hired him.... they will accomplish one thing... they will tear this community up....way to go

[smitty]

So, let's see -- you are denying that 78 pages of public document were charged around 375 dollars by the administration?  Are you denying that the Texas Attorney General is now involved?  Are you denying that Gulf Coast Electric did electrical upgrades to the power system in the late 90's?  Are you denying that LANWalton will get a percentage of the total bond cost?  So, what exactly are you denying?  But, friend, everything I've said is true.  I have a copy of the actual receipt of the charge ($376.23) for the public document.  I also have a copy of the letter sent out by the school board president when the superintendent was ask specific questions.  Again, why didn't she answer the questions?

So, put down the kool-aid and do a little more fact-finding.  Take a deep breath and relax.  Because it appears your emotions are clouding your judgement.  When/if this bond fails, Nederland will continue to be an excellent school district, contrary to what the doom and gloomers say.  And your family will have more money in it's pocket.  But, if it fails, feel free to figure out your share/cost of the bond and donate it.  Probably not.   

Come on smitty, I have been denying just about everything you have been saying! You use just a little of the truth and twist it to your advantage. I have a question for you, what's the solution to our problem? You want to blame all of our problems on the Administration, but what you don't propose is a solution. Our schools will not get fixed pointing the finger at people they will only get fixed with solid solutions. Do you have a solution, or are you just part of the problem? You say we don't need a bond, OK fix our schools without one, enlighten me, show me how to do it, don't just talk trash give me some solid practical ways that we can bring our schools up to where they should be without raising taxes!

by the way, I am not a lawyer that's why I hire good ones! Never get advice from someone who knows less than you do, find an expert it will cost you less in the long run!

dawgnuts, I'll ask you again:  Can you deny anything I've said that you've taken issue with?  You've made quite a few statements, but you've still yet to deny what I've said is wrong.  Or do you just like to play lawyer?   ;D

Not a threat at all, anything you say on any board can be taken in multiple ways and some ways you may not think about. smitty has made accusations about the leadership in the Nederland School System. If he can't back it up and someone takes exception to the accusations he may find a person knocking on his door some day with legal papers. I am not making any kind of threat, just a statement of what can happen when things get out of control. People have been terminated because of the things they wrote on the internet. You are not totally anonymous on the internet and if the legal folks want to find you, they can that's all I am saying.

[Bigdog]

I got your kool-aid, smitty.  The upgrades at Central from Gulf Coast were due to a electrical FIRE, thats F I R E  from a transformer burning up.  The upgrades had to be done to accomodate the new transformer. BTW, LanWalton got a percentage of PNG's bond cost too, you might think about where your own taxes are going.  I could care less what you were charged, maybe , heres a thought go to a Board meeting and ask your questions instead of trying to tie up the admin staff with your crap.  Nevermind, that would require cohonas. 

[smitty]

I'm not issuing kool-aid, they are.  Anyway, ask them what question?  Something we already know?  Strange.  Anyway, so, you've agreed with everything I've said.  Gulf Coast, LANWalton doing PN-G's bond, them doing Nederland's, yes these are all the facts that I've stated that you denied.

I know the board members.  Talked to them face to face before.  Not a problem.  But, what do you think they are going to say?  Anyway, I can save a trip because I get their talking points from you.  Thanks.  But, on the other hand, you've been agreeable.  So, I appreciate that to.

Not sure about the "you might think about where your own taxes are going" statement.  I know where they are going and where they shouldn't be going.  Just trying to save your family a little money.  Never seen such hostility towards such an idea.  But, again, feel free to make extra tax payments.  Have you done that before?  Probably not. 

I got your kool-aid, smitty.  The upgrades at Central from Gulf Coast were due to a electrical FIRE, thats F I R E  from a transformer burning up.  The upgrades had to be done to accomodate the new transformer. BTW, LanWalton got a percentage of PNG's bond cost too, you might think about where your own taxes are going.  I could care less what you were charged, maybe , heres a thought go to a Board meeting and ask your questions instead of trying to tie up the admin staff with your crap.  Nevermind, that would require cohonas. 

[Bigdog]

You might need to get your facts straight before you spout off.  (shakes head) nevermind, forgot who I was talking to.  I haven't denied anything, just gave you facts about what happened instead of going off on misinformed tirades. So what that they did both bonds? I explained why Gulf Coast did the upgrades. So do you actually have a point or enjoy talking in circles?  The bond is online , why don't you read it before you come on here and attack it, and don't say you did because I would hope that you wouldn't have come on here and made some of the statements that you did. Maybe man up and go to a meeting and ask hard questions , instead of coming on a message board and asking them.

I'm not issuing kool-aid, they are.  Anyway, ask them what question?  Something we already know?  Strange.  Anyway, so, you've agreed with everything I've said.  Gulf Coast, LANWalton doing PN-G's bond, them doing Nederland's, yes these are all the facts that I've stated that you denied.

I know the board members.  Talked to them face to face before.  Not a problem.  But, what do you think they are going to say?  Anyway, I can save a trip because I get their talking points from you.  Thanks.  But, on the other hand, you've been agreeable.  So, I appreciate that to.

Not sure about the "you might think about where your own taxes are going" statement.  I know where they are going and where they shouldn't be going.  Just trying to save your family a little money.  Never seen such hostility towards such an idea.  But, again, feel free to make extra tax payments.  Have you done that before?  Probably not. 

I got your kool-aid, smitty.  The upgrades at Central from Gulf Coast were due to a electrical FIRE, thats F I R E  from a transformer burning up.  The upgrades had to be done to accomodate the new transformer. BTW, LanWalton got a percentage of PNG's bond cost too, you might think about where your own taxes are going.  I could care less what you were charged, maybe , heres a thought go to a Board meeting and ask your questions instead of trying to tie up the admin staff with your crap.  Nevermind, that would require cohonas. 

[dawgnut]

What about solutions smitty, or is slinging mud all you can do? You don't answer any questions either, so maybe your no better than the people you are trashing. It's easy to stand on the outside and throw rocks, but it is a little harder to do the job. Give me some solutions to the problem, but you don't have any that are viable, just trash talk that's all!

[smitty]

Stating facts is throwing rocks and slinging mud?  You joking, right?  Well, maybe to some, I guess, facts are a little like mud.  In my statements, feel free to state which is slinging mud and throwing rocks.  Your opinion, of course.  I've stated what my solution is and the taxpayer doesn't get reamed.  1/4 of the make the needed repairs.  But this doesn't keep up with the Jones'.  But that philosophy is dangerous.

PS - By the way, weren't you the one with the previous threat?  Talk about mud slinging!

What about solutions smitty, or is slinging mud all you can do? You don't answer any questions either, so maybe your no better than the people you are trashing. It's easy to stand on the outside and throw rocks, but it is a little harder to do the job. Give me some solutions to the problem, but you don't have any that are viable, just trash talk that's all!

[RustedCutlass]

Not following you at all... Maybe I'm just ignorant but what does Dorr have to do with Nederland?

Dorr was hired by Nederland CARE to oppose the bond in a word-of-mouth, mail-out campaign.

[ems2430]

Stating facts is throwing rocks and slinging mud?  You joking, right?  Well, maybe to some, I guess, facts are a little like mud.  In my statements, feel free to state which is slinging mud and throwing rocks.  Your opinion, of course.  I've stated what my solution is and the taxpayer doesn't get reamed.  1/4 of the make the needed repairs.  But this doesn't keep up with the Jones'.  But that philosophy is dangerous.

PS - By the way, weren't you the one with the previous threat?  Talk about mud slinging!

What about solutions smitty, or is slinging mud all you can do? You don't answer any questions either, so maybe your no better than the people you are trashing. It's easy to stand on the outside and throw rocks, but it is a little harder to do the job. Give me some solutions to the problem, but you don't have any that are viable, just trash talk that's all!

Smitty, doing renovations only was considered, but doing that only buys these buildings so much more time of useful life.  If you only repair now, you will surely have to do more of the same in a relativey short period of time.  As a taxpayer myself, I will not agree to that.  We want a long term solution that prevents us contuing to spend money on old buildings; it is that simple.  That is the crux of this argument and you certainly have your right to disagree, however, I believe that in the long run, simply doing renovations will cost the district more money.  It is a simple philosophical, difference of opinion.  Some say spend money fixing the old and others say stop doing that and start fresh.

[Bigdog]

Again, read the bond.  It is on the NISD website.  I provided the link further back in this thread.

[dawgnut]

Again, read the bond.  It is on the NISD website.  I provided the link further back in this thread.

What are you trying to do bigdog confuse me with the facts? It's a whole lot more fun to believe that something underhanded is going on in the District. We all love just the hint of a scandal even if it's not true! Any person that can't see through this smoke screen needs to watch politics a little more. The best way to keep the opposition from mounting an offense is to keep them on defense. Make them chase their tails all day trying to defend their positions. The only solution that has been brought up is to increase the maintenance budget. I would love one person to show me how. Show me a School District, City, or State that has excess money. There's not one. They all have more needs than they have funds. So how do you increase any departments budget, the only way is to take the money from someone else. If you look at most schools, salaries are the top budget items. So what are you saying, cut salaries and increase the maintenance budget. The only way to increase one budget is to cut someone else's budget. So if you believe the folks that say we can do all the repairs on our schools without raising taxes or passing a bond then who's budget do you want to cut? Teachers? Transportation (new wellness program, make all the kids walk to school, they will not mind a little rain every now and then)? What the anti-bong group is really saying is they don't want new taxes and they don't care who it hurts. They are totally selfish, it's all about them. If there was another way to do this without a bond or without raising taxes don't you think every school district in the USA would be jumping on it like a chicken on a June bug. You bet they would! Who wants to raise taxes? No one in their right mind. Look at the things that have been written about the board, the administration and the leadership in Nederland. Do you really think these folks would subject themselves and their families to this if it was not necessary? I don't think so! Would You?

[baddog]

Again, read the bond.  It is on the NISD website.  I provided the link further back in this thread.

What are you trying to do bigdog confuse me with the facts? It's a whole lot more fun to believe that something underhanded is going on in the District. We all love just the hint of a scandal even if it's not true! Any person that can't see through this smoke screen needs to watch politics a little more. The best way to keep the opposition from mounting an offense is to keep them on defense. Make them chase their tails all day trying to defend their positions. The only solution that has been brought up is to increase the maintenance budget. I would love one person to show me how. Show me a School District, City, or State that has excess money. There's not one. They all have more needs than they have funds. So how do you increase any departments budget, the only way is to take the money from someone else. If you look at most schools, salaries are the top budget items. So what are you saying, cut salaries and increase the maintenance budget. The only way to increase one budget is to cut someone else's budget. So if you believe the folks that say we can do all the repairs on our schools without raising taxes or passing a bond then who's budget do you want to cut? Teachers? Transportation (new wellness program, make all the kids walk to school, they will not mind a little rain every now and then)? What the anti-bong group is really saying is they don't want new taxes and they don't care who it hurts. They are totally selfish, it's all about them. If there was another way to do this without a bond or without raising taxes don't you think every school district in the USA would be jumping on it like a chicken on a June bug. You bet they would! Who wants to raise taxes? No one in their right mind. Look at the things that have been written about the board, the administration and the leadership in Nederland. Do you really think these folks would subject themselves and their families to this if it was not necessary? I don't think so! Would You?

Very good post. I can't add anything to that.

[Bigdog]

I'm sorry Dawgnut, can you ever forgive me???

[BondOn]

I have read posters talk about the cost to renovate the schools as a more effective model than the idea of a wholesale reset of the district’s 50-year old inventory.  I would suggest that this is a terribly bad way to address the needs of the district.  If I remember correctly, the District authorized about $18 million in debt.  And what did we, the taxpayer get, a PAC and a bunch of restroom repair jobs.  So, using the Turner Construction Cost Index (

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) that same amount of bonding would be worth $31.2 million today.  In 1997 we received a performing arts center and band aids.  Now, the band aids have come unstuck and new wounds have appeared.  Here’s a choice for you then; dribble another few million dollars back at the school district in some cobbled manner or get brand new spaces for 84% of the district student population. 

Look at the cost in detail.  They propose that the new elementary schools should cost $16,720,000 for the most expensive offering and last 50-years, serving 683 kids along the way.  This amounts to $489/student/year of service.  Now, let’s take up the renovate position and assume that any renovation costs quarter the amount of a new facility (this is being VERY generous), existing schools are roughly 500 students and that the renovation work buys 15-years.  This amounts to $557/student/year of service.  Repeat this every 15-years for 3 terms and you get an idea of what the opponent folks want.  No, strike that last part; they want NOTHING for the students that are the future of the community.

There are those that will post remarks suggesting administration cover up, offer copies of receipts, discuss timelines and other strategies to keep the people of Nederland ISD from debating the real topics of cost.  Check out post by AG00 on previous pages for more to come from the opposition.  To renovate 50-year old facilities is not a responsible decision, and certainly does not achieve the cost savings espoused by the opposition group.  If you like what you see, go to

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[ems2430]

Bingo! Someone who gets it, big time.  The waste the bond opponents talk about truly exists when we add more renovations on top of renovations that have already been made (1997).  The committee's belief is that continuing to spend our dollars on older buildings is where waste exists.  Nice post, BondOn.

[PN-G bamatex]

Just thought I'd offer something into the record:

Look at PN-G's so-called "renovations" under our bond. You know what they were? Roof repairs for every school in the district except the middle schools, and only partial roof repairs at the high school (only the sections set to remain were repaired, understandably). At PNE, the new roof is already leaking, and we've got fresh mildew growing in the instrument room at the high school from last weekend's rain. At Taft, there is a room that has been nicknamed the "waterfall room" because water pours down the windows every time it starts to sprinkle. This comes only weeks after the roof repairs were affected. We're in the same boat over here. These buildings are just being "rehabilitated" every few years, and, as we all know, you can only fix the leaks in the hull so many times before the boat finally sinks.

[ems2430]

Good point.  In the meantime, you have spent more taxpayer money for temporary fixes.  Now where do we say the waste is?

[The Goat]

Just thought I'd offer something into the record:

Look at PN-G's so-called "renovations" under our bond. You know what they were? Roof repairs for every school in the district except the middle schools, and only partial roof repairs at the high school (only the sections set to remain were repaired, understandably). At PNE, the new roof is already leaking, and we've got fresh mildew growing in the instrument room at the high school from last weekend's rain. At Taft, there is a room that has been nicknamed the "waterfall room" because water pours down the windows every time it starts to sprinkle. This comes only weeks after the roof repairs were affected. We're in the same boat over here. These buildings are just being "rehabilitated" every few years, and, as we all know, you can only fix the leaks in the hull so many times before the boat finally sinks.

Well Smitty what do have to say about that?

[Guest Brubaker]

..." it still doesn't change the fact that I like to stir up trouble and pour the Kool-Aid.. that's what I do, and it's so much fun, until posts like the one from Bondon come up... man those facts taste a lot like Grape, always my favorite.  Man nothing like a grape Kool-aid smile on a hot summer day.  Drink up folks..."  that's what I think he has to say.

[Bigdog]

Just thought I'd offer something into the record:

Look at PN-G's so-called "renovations" under our bond. You know what they were? Roof repairs for every school in the district except the middle schools, and only partial roof repairs at the high school (only the sections set to remain were repaired, understandably). At PNE, the new roof is already leaking, and we've got fresh mildew growing in the instrument room at the high school from last weekend's rain. At Taft, there is a room that has been nicknamed the "waterfall room" because water pours down the windows every time it starts to sprinkle. This comes only weeks after the roof repairs were affected. We're in the same boat over here. These buildings are just being "rehabilitated" every few years, and, as we all know, you can only fix the leaks in the hull so many times before the boat finally sinks.

Is this from the current bond?

[ems2430]

More news coming out concerning the bond issue.  We now know that the bond committee was way over loaded with pro-bonders.  Out of 34, 23 are either employed by the district or on the school board.  At least 3 others are paid to provide services to the district.  Real community representation, as promised!

Information (public records) was requested from the superintendent.  Ten days after the request, the school responded and was told it would be another 3 weeks and had to pay around $375.  And these responses were by the district lawyer.  That in itself should raise a few questions.  Trying to stall also raises a few questions.  All the district had to do was copy 78 pages.  There is a law that specifically states how much it should cost.  The cost should have been -- now get this -- $37.80!  It's so bad that now the Texas Attorney Generals office had to get involved.

Now to the one consulting firm that some do not seem to have a problem with.  I understand that the firm, LANWalton, also was involved in the PN-G bond issue.  Keeping up with the Jones'?  Well, anyway, it is also my understanding that they get a percentage of the bond passed.  So, the more the bond issue is, the more they get.  It could be real possible that the taxpayers could get a real reaming from something like this.  Pro-bonders -- you with me so far?  Let's keep going.

It was reported that in the late 90's, Gulf Coast Electric did extensive upgrades to the electrical systems.  It has been also stated that there is plenty of power there to do what Nederland needs to do.  Amazing!

So, pro-bonders, as I thought all along, this stinks to high heaven.  Whenever the kool-aid drinkers can only regurgitate the talking point, "do it for the kids", then I knew there was more to the story.  And boy was I right.  I'm sure there is more to come.

PS, One local newspaper requested comment on an article concerning the bond issue from the superintendent.  But, the reporter said they were instructed to submit questions in writing in advance.  The request was presented and a reply was made.  But not by the superintendent.  No!  A response was from the school board president.  And this response was, and in the words of the newspaper, "It failed to address all of the questions the newspaper posed, and appeared to CONFLICT (emphasis added) with the newspaper's independent findings."  So, pro-bonders, I think once the stink permeates the town with openness, it'll go down in a blaze of glory. 

Bondcrusher I suggest you just go out and vote on election day.  Your whining and complaining will not change anyones opinion on this board.  If you don't like the way Nederland does things I hear they are building lots of housing in PA... maybe you could move there.   :

Sounds like someone took a page from the Paul Dorr playbook.  Google "Copperhead Consulting Paul Dorr" and see what is at work to divide and destroy Nederland.  These claims of NISD Admin stalling are pure political techniques...tried over and over again.  People of Nederland need to get one thing straight, CARE is being pupeteered by a man that wants to tear down the public education system!  He comes to a district to create chaos, misstrust and hatred among the community and leaves.  In fact, you might be well served to ask to see the names of the people actively working to kill the school progress in Nederland by funding the CARE organization.  Just as I would encourage you to look for the facts in this Bond, I would encourage you to look at the strategies that we can expect.  Below is an excerpt from just one of those easy Google searches.  Sound familiar...?  So, when you get the postcards a day or two ahead of the vote, hear the radio ads, see "ghost author" letters to the editor, have another attack on the administration...and so on, remember that the person running the show has personally advocated home schooling and the dissolution of the public education system.  See through this mess and support the Bond. 

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Dorr, an anti-abortion activist from Ocheyedan, Iowa, is well known in levy campaign circles. He has vowed to end public education using any means necessary. He claims to have organized the defeat of more than 20 levy elections in Iowa, South Dakota and Minnesota, including recent campaigns in the Lyle, Orono, Blooming Prairie and Howard Lake-Waverly districts. His smear campaigns include twisted facts and innuendo. When he leaves town, he leaves underfunded schools and a divided and bruised community.

Dorr has a pattern to his campaigns. He is hired by a local voter, drawing a fee of between $5,000 and $15,000, which is well below what he spends on the campaign.

He arrives about four weeks before Election Day. Dorr’s first move is to tie up the school administration by asking for many hard-to-find public documents, including contracts with employees, architects, financial advisors and administrators. He also requests current and past budgets, budget projections, enrollment data and information about facilities, among other documents.

He then publishes a newsletter in which he twists facts about the district and takes information out of context. This is mailed to every voter in the district, usually about four days before Election Day so inexperienced pro-levy campaign volunteers can’t respond.

He also employs a smear campaign. He will imply that district officials accepted bribes. He will question whether school employees are involved in the campaign. He will hire questionable experts to challenge pro-levy data. He once famously accused an Iowa judge of bestiality.

He will air television ads featuring his children while implying they are district students.

He will join public meetings promoted by the local “vote no†organization in which he will hide misinformation by starting a statement with “I’m not saying this is happening here, but …â€

He will question every absentee ballot and question election judges’ relationship with school officials.

Those who have undergone a Dorr campaign say his ugliest tactic is to polarize the district. His disinformation campaign inflames those who already distrust schools, making the vote not about the levy but about schools themselves. After a Dorr campaign, divisions that existed in the community before the election widen, leaving resentment and raw emotions. In most communities, these feelings are slow to heal.

Not following you at all... Maybe I'm just ignorant but what does Dorr have to do with Nederland?

Just a simple reminder to everyone to be prepared for the sure to come onslaught from Dorr and the CARE committee in the next couple of weeks.  Stick to the facts, which simply are that continuing to throw renovation and repair dollars at outdated, overcrowded buildings will cost the taxpayers more money in the long run.  If we renovate now, we will be looking at more repairs to the same facilities in another 8-10 years.

[Guest Brubaker]

Should be a pretty simple arguement since we have an example of that strategy in the PNGISD which has not proven successful.  I think staying away from the Jones' would be prudent... but CARE and Smitty would have us try to keep up with the Jones' and plug holes in a sinking ship. 

[Guest Bondcrusher09]

How come our roofs are in such terrible shape when we just went through many major hurricanes. Did we get screwed on roof repairs are what? If we can't maintain our buildings now what makes you think we can 20 years from now. Sounds like we need to cut fat at the top and put some more money in the maintenance budget.

[dawgnut]

Hey, I am just a simple old (my daughters remind me often that I'm older than dinosaurs) football fan that has always thought that the best defense was a great offense. Get the ball and keep it, so why wait for their onslaught. Let's get four wide outs and line up and snap the ball! Hey if I can't watch a good game then why not have a little fun waiting for the season to start!

[dawgnut]

Where are you going to get that money, from your magic money tree? Cut what fat? You guy's just want to stir up trash that's all. Nothing but trash! If these people are so bad then why haven't we heard anything before now? Because your just throwing mud because you don't want the bond that's all. If the bond would get defeated then we would not hear from you ever again. So why wait, we don't need to hear from you now!

How come our roofs are in such terrible shape when we just went through many major hurricanes. Did we get screwed on roof repairs are what? If we can't maintain our buildings now what makes you think we can 20 years from now. Sounds like we need to cut fat at the top and put some more money in the maintenance budget.