Nederland Bond

[YankeeDawg]

Question about home value:  Can you SELL your home for what the county says it's VALUED at??  To me, the VALUE of my home is what I can get for it if I sell it, not what the county says it's WORTH on paper. 

[Bulldog1985]

I can get more than the county assessment. The insurance has the value 17,000 more than the tax appraisal. Market value lies between the two numbers.

The bottom line, vote yes or no! Most folks that vote no, its about the money. But if this fails, there will be another proposal, the needs to not go away. Higher taxes either way.

If busineesess move out because higher taxes so be it. where are they goingto go. Lumberton??? They have the highest taxes in SETX. Port Arthur, too much competition. Ask Primueaxs and others that moved out of Nederland to compete with the big populated towns/cities, they did not last long. Port Neches would be an option small town, but did'nt they just pass a multi million dollar bond!

After Saturday it will be behind us and we need to move forward, yes or no, we need to come together and help our biggest asset/businees (our schools) to be successful.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

Nederland is pretty much tapped out on land, so my guess would be property values will hold or go up if we have a school system that people seek out as people move in and out of the area.  I honestly don't think there's anyway for home values to drop 25% or more needed to cause some of the issues CARE is raising.  We're in the greatest econonic recession since the 1930's and my home value went up 20%.  In my opinion, IF we pass the bond, we assure ourselves of the long term value of our homes.  Pass it not and you could be right Smitty, we'll be headin down the crapper.

We may be currently in the largest recession the country has felt since the 1930's, but the SETX area has really been blessed to pass up the recession (so far).

Our house values have fared better than probably any other part of the country.

Hopefully Nederland will do what is right and vote FOR THE KIDS and not the pocket books.

As previously stated, sooner or later a new bond will be neeeded, the longer you put it off, it will just cost more to do the same thing.

GOOD LUCK IN NEDERLAND ON SATURDAY!

[YankeeDawg]

I can get more than the county assessment. The insurance has the value 17,000 more than the tax appraisal. Market value lies between the two numbers.

The bottom line, vote yes or no! Most folks that vote no, its about the money. But if this fails, there will be another proposal, the needs to not go away. Higher taxes either way.

If busineesess move out because higher taxes so be it. where are they goingto go. Lumberton??? They have the highest taxes in SETX. Port Arthur, too much competition. Ask Primueaxs and others that moved out of Nederland to compete with the big populated towns/cities, they did not last long. Port Neches would be an option small town, but did'nt they just pass a multi million dollar bond!

After Saturday it will be behind us and we need to move forward, yes or no, we need to come together and help our biggest asset/businees (our schools) to be successful.

So the county is actually coming out behind in tax revenue on your proprty if I understand you correctly?  Geeez...wish I was that fortunate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't PN receive tax revenue from the plants located there as does PA.

[PNGFan]

I can get more than the county assessment. The insurance has the value 17,000 more than the tax appraisal. Market value lies between the two numbers.

The bottom line, vote yes or no! Most folks that vote no, its about the money. But if this fails, there will be another proposal, the needs to not go away. Higher taxes either way.

If busineesess move out because higher taxes so be it. where are they goingto go. Lumberton??? They have the highest taxes in SETX. Port Arthur, too much competition. Ask Primueaxs and others that moved out of Nederland to compete with the big populated towns/cities, they did not last long. Port Neches would be an option small town, but did'nt they just pass a multi million dollar bond!

After Saturday it will be behind us and we need to move forward, yes or no, we need to come together and help our biggest asset/businees (our schools) to be successful.

So the county is actually coming out behind in tax revenue on your proprty if I understand you correctly?  Geeez...wish I was that fortunate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't PN receive tax revenue from the plants located there as does PA.

Yes we do, but Robin Hood forces us to give 15 million a year back to the state to help support schools like Nederland.

[YankeeDawg]

I can get more than the county assessment. The insurance has the value 17,000 more than the tax appraisal. Market value lies between the two numbers.

The bottom line, vote yes or no! Most folks that vote no, its about the money. But if this fails, there will be another proposal, the needs to not go away. Higher taxes either way.

If busineesess move out because higher taxes so be it. where are they goingto go. Lumberton??? They have the highest taxes in SETX. Port Arthur, too much competition. Ask Primueaxs and others that moved out of Nederland to compete with the big populated towns/cities, they did not last long. Port Neches would be an option small town, but did'nt they just pass a multi million dollar bond!

After Saturday it will be behind us and we need to move forward, yes or no, we need to come together and help our biggest asset/businees (our schools) to be successful.

So the county is actually coming out behind in tax revenue on your proprty if I understand you correctly?  Geeez...wish I was that fortunate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't PN receive tax revenue from the plants located there as does PA.

Yes we do, but Robin Hood forces us to give 15 million a year back to the state to help support schools like Nederland.

But you still come out better in the long run, from a property tax basis, don't you.  Just wondering.

P.S.  Thanks for the support..every little bit helps.  ;D 

[Bigdog]

Lol. Ned does not receive any Robin hood money that I am aware of.

[PN-G bamatex]

I can get more than the county assessment. The insurance has the value 17,000 more than the tax appraisal. Market value lies between the two numbers.

The bottom line, vote yes or no! Most folks that vote no, its about the money. But if this fails, there will be another proposal, the needs to not go away. Higher taxes either way.

If busineesess move out because higher taxes so be it. where are they goingto go. Lumberton??? They have the highest taxes in SETX. Port Arthur, too much competition. Ask Primueaxs and others that moved out of Nederland to compete with the big populated towns/cities, they did not last long. Port Neches would be an option small town, but did'nt they just pass a multi million dollar bond!

After Saturday it will be behind us and we need to move forward, yes or no, we need to come together and help our biggest asset/businees (our schools) to be successful.

Yes, but, as I said earlier, our tax rate has dropped. Don't get me wrong, our taxes are still outrageous, but that is moreso the county's fault then it is the school district's.

Now, our rate was lower than yours to begin with because we have all these refineries, some of which are expanding. That's what shielded us from the major tax hikes with our bond that you guys are facing with yours. But still, to have one bond passed, one in the works, and still have a decrease in taxes is rare.

The county is the real problem when it comes to taxes, not the school districts. But, that's what you get when you live in a "blue" county.

[Bigdog]

I agree with that. How much longer are you going to have to pay for a empty Ford Park?? Lol.

James, you have beaten that horse dead, buried it, dug it up again and beat it some more. Let it rest in peace!!

[dawgnut]

He wouldn't be a true Nederlander if he did that! It's something about some place freezing over before we give up ;D

I agree with that. How much longer are you going to have to pay for a empty Ford Park?? Lol.

James, you have beaten that horse dead, buried it, dug it up again and beat it some more. Let it rest in peace!!

[RHawk68]

Just thought I'd share with this forum some of my thoughts.  I've also included links to the article and letter I reference.  I assume since you're reaing this, you've probably seen and read Nederland CARE's mailings...

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Plenty has been said about the Nederland ISD Bond Issue and early voting numbers have been steady.  The vote has enflamed passions on both sides and even strained some friendships.  For my part, my feet are firmly planted on the “for†side.  I am a district employee but I live in the PN-G school zone.  I see the future of NISD everyday in my classrooms and understand their need for an improved learning environment.  Meanwhile, on my drive to work I occasionally pass new school construction in my neighborhood and am proud to have voted in favor of the PN-G Bond.  Yes, my taxes did increase a little bit, but my house is still affordable, I still enjoy a modestly comfortable life and the sky above my world did not fall Chicken Little.  I know that I and my neighbors in Mid and in South County (it’s great to see new school construction in Port Arthur too!) made a commitment to the children of our communities.

But my reason for writing today has less to do with supporting the NISD Bond and more to do with finding the answers to some nagging questions.  To the members of Nederland CARE (Citizens Acting for Responsible Education) and to those supporting Nederland CARE: Do you support the future of Nederland schools or not?

I am not trying to be facetious.  I have no problem recognizing that an anti-bond stance and a pro-child stance can certainly be held together.  And while I disagree with the stance of Nederland CARE, I certainly respect their right to hold any opinion – it’s the American way.  The issue with which I am dealing is in regards to Nederland Schools themselves, the old Black and Gold, and the faculties and staffs employed therein.

Nederland CARE: Do you support the future of Nederland Schools or not?

And I ask from a place of love and open-mindedness, because I want to believe that Nederland CARE and its supporters do not share the agenda of their architect: Paul Dorr.

Let me explain what I mean.  In the Nederland CARE four page mailing received throughout the district, my eyebrows were first raised when I read their rhetoric.  Under the heading How Did We Get Here In The First Place?, the mailing attacks the composition of the Bond Committee.  The assault is based on the fact that many of the committee’s members were or are employed by NISD.  It says, “The total employment of NISD less than (sic) 5% of all NISD voters, yet they represented 74% or more of this committee?  How can we trust the recommendations of this committee whose membership is naturally biased?† Wait, did I read that right?  Did Nederland CARE just insinuate in their own publication that NISD employees are untrustworthy and biased?  This doesn’t seem to mesh with their claim on the same page – page one by the way – that they “commend our teachers for the great job they do.† Which is it Nederland CARE?  Are NISD employees untrustworthy or commendable?  This contradiction was the first of many that led me to one of my favorite hobbies: Research!

That’s when the name Paul Dorr kept surfacing.  In a letter dated March 2009 that was distributed to local businesses and leaders, local businessman Charles Vaughn announced that he had, “been in touch with a specialist-consultant who helps Midwest taxpayers organize political campaigns to defeat… (bond) proposals.  This hired gunslinger?  This Iowa-based outsider?  None other than Mr. Paul Dorr.

In a letter dated November 9, 2002, Dorr wrote all we need to know about him in the title: Why I Defeat Government School Bond Levies At The Ballot Box And Do It For A Profit.  That’s right folks, “For A Profitâ€.  In an article dated April 9, 2008, Dorr says, “Pretty soon I started realizing, I can put this stuff in a can, develop all the arguments once, and just customize it for each campaign and maybe begin to grow a business.† Mr. Dorr does not hide the fact that his campaigns are fabricated, so why does Nederland CARE?  This is the man Nederland CARE turned to?  A man who comes in to a community that he is not a part of and orchestrates a campaign that he has no stake in?  How disappointing.  But I apologize for being disingenuous.  The truth is that Dorr does have a stake in the Nederland School Bond election: a financial stake.

My research turned up Dorr’s fingerprints on these kinds of anti-school bond campaigns all over the nation.  And ours is no exception, right down to the name: CARE is an acronym used in Mr. Dorr’s campaigns quite often.  This man does not “care†about Nederland or our surrounding communities.  This man does not “care†about the families serviced by NISD.  This man does not “care†until there is a profit to be made.  Remember, he was sought out.  He did not come to Mid-County because he thought we had proposed a bad bond and felt empathy for the beleaguered taxpayers.  He came when he was called and brought along his canned product.  And when that can was opened, what a mess appeared inside!

It turns out that to his credit Paul Dorr does not only fight these battles for profit.  He has another agenda – an agenda kept out of the spotlight by Nederland CARE.  Paul Dorr is an adversary of all public schools.  In the same April 2008 article, Dorr tells of a time when he won a home schooling case in the courts.  He said, “That started us on a further journey towards recognizing that government schools are the enemy of the Christian faith.† This is surprising to me.  This is surprising to me especially in the light of the tremendous support NISD gets from local churches and pastors including those who are regulars at Nederland school events.  Do local pastors and church goers in Nederland really feel that NISD is the enemy of the Christian faith?  Is it Nederland CARE’s position that NISD is an enemy of the Christian faith?  And if so, why don’t they come out and say it? 

  I’d wager that the vast majority of Nederland CARE does not feel this way, but I then have to ask – why would you follow a plan designed by an architect that feels this way?  Paul Dorr tells education groups, “Ours is not to try to reform this stuff, ours is to call upon the Christians to get outâ€.  Does Nederland CARE advocate pulling students out of NISD schools because of their faith?  Dorr continues, “And once we’re out, and have our children protected and our own houses in order and our churches in order, then we are to go back and go after them… let’s go on the offensive against them.† Go on the offensive against Nederland schools?  Dorr says, “Don’t adopt a defensive posture in an attempt to appease the state.  A more effective strategy is to go on the offensive and prosecute their miserable system…† Wow.  Does Nederland CARE agree that the Nederland Independent School District, a school district that many of its members grew up in, is a “miserable systemâ€?  Nederland CARE speaks about preserving our rich traditions and history.  Their campaign’s architect wants to shut it all down.  Nederland CARE, do you support the future of Nederland schools or not?

It’s Dorr’s agenda to attack public schools by attacking their funding.  Because if school districts cannot afford to continue to serve the students in the area, then Dorr wins by shutting down an entity he sees as an “enemyâ€.  Does that mean that the Nederland CARE campaign, designed by Dorr, is actually attacking Nederland schools with the goal of financial ruin and eventual shut down of the district?  Nederland CARE, do you support the future of Nederland schools or not?

  Dorr even brags in his November 2002 letter that people who successfully work with him on his orchestrated mayhem have, “earned a new position of respect in the eyes of many voters†and then continues by pointing out how working with him has helped people get elected to local positions.  Which brings up another question: does Nederland CARE support any of the candidates vying for election in the upcoming Board of Trustees election?  And if so, does he or she want to see Nederland schools close like Paul Dorr does?  I cannot imagine a successful School Board candidate platform that includes shuttering the schools, but stranger things have happened.  If Nederland CARE is supporting any candidate, I would challenge that candidate to make his or her position on Paul Dorr’s anti-public school agenda clear.

  I will say this for Mr. Dorr – he knows how he feels and is not afraid to put his ideas and agenda out there.  I respect that.  I vehemently disagree with his stances, but I respect his willingness to come right out and say that he makes a living out of attacking public schools by defeating school bond issues.  But we do not hear this from Nederland CARE.  Are they trying to hide this?  Do they agree with Paul Dorr?

  When the stands are full and the black-and-gold clad crowd cheers for the Bulldogs, is there a contention in the crowd that secretly wants this all to go away?  When the Performing Arts Center is full of community residents listening to a student concert, watching a student play, enjoying the tremendous talent we have on display in Nederland schools, are there people in their seats secretly wishing there was no place for this to go on?  Are there residents in Nederland who want Nederland schools to close? 

  Paul Dorr does.  And he is the draftsman behind Nederland CARE’s campaign.  Does Nederland CARE share these values?  Nederland CARE: do you support the future of Nederland schools or not?

[Gtj007]

Whether I agree with RHawk's post or not, all I can say is that this is the best thought out and expressed post that I have ever read on this board.  Nice Job!!!

[8isgreat]

I teach at Nederland High School.  Three of my ceiling tiles caved in today and water is leaking everywhere.  I have trash cans in there to catch the water and the desk pushed out of the way so the children don't get debris or water on them.  We had Honeywell and maintenance out to look at it.  We have 3 leaks in our department right now all with the ceiling tiles gone and trash cans out to catch the water.  Maintenance will have to make the part to fix the airconditioner.  I am assuming it is because the unit is 37 years old and parts are hard to come by. They said it would be next week before they can get the parts to fix it.  Is this really what the children of Nederland deserve?

[smitty]

School Bond passage would bring a 51% increase in school taxes to the homeowners of Nederland.  I've heard this from a reliable source.  Is this true or false?

[BondOn]

Ok, I'll bite.

Maybe you or your "reliable source" could post the data that was used to arrive at that figure???

[smitty]

No bite to it.  Do you agree or disagree?  Or do you not know?  I'm trying to confirm if this figure is true or false. 

Ok, I'll bite.

Maybe you or your "reliable source" could post the data that was used to arrive at that figure???

[Guest Penny]

By my math, compared to 2005 tax rates, after we pass the bond, taxes go DOWN by approximately 1%... and that's if you assume all 126 are out at the same time, which won't be the case.  If you compare it to the last couple of years very generous rates, then it's a 36% increase.  This is just my simple mind working, but in the end, it's all a matter of how you look at it and probably will be influenced by how you are voting.

[James Mosley]

No bite to it.  Do you agree or disagree?  Or do you not know?  I'm trying to confirm if this figure is true or false. 

Ok, I'll bite.

Maybe you or your "reliable source" could post the data that was used to arrive at that figure???

Your numbers are exaggerated a bit smitty, same trending information from a reliable source I "C.A.R.E." not to believe.  ;D

I believe Penny has more historical numbers for you to believe since those are the numbers from an actual case and not one of what if's. Like I have said before smitty, you do keep it live on the board... ;D

[dawgnut]

smitty doesn't care if you agree or not, it's a simple tactic, throw out a number and the folks that don't read the whole story grab it and run. If you are anywhere close to the fence it just helps you make up your mind. My take is if you can't name the source then most likely it's false. But if they have helped bring someone to their side with false information so be it. They will never be held accountable for the garbage and they know it!

[adminbaberuth]

I'm looking at my appraisal value just received last week. My property has increased 13 1/2 % since 2003 the letter states. Not bad, since I've heard increases alot more from people in Nederland.

The tax rate for NISD proposed this year on the statement is 1.12000.

If my taxable value is $100,000 my taxes will be $1,120.00. Will someone calculate the most I would pay if all bonds were sold at the same time?

[smitty]

dawgnuts, you are a true kool-aid drinker.  Though, something to be said for that.  But you talk a lot but never really say anything.  I don't need to name the source.  But I'll tell you, it's not CARE.  So I'll give another shot, since you think you know so much:  What is the true figure that our taxes will increase.  I don't think I'll have to knowingly make false statements to make this bond issue fail.  I think It'll do that on it's on.

smitty doesn't care if you agree or not, it's a simple tactic, throw out a number and the folks that don't read the whole story grab it and run. If you are anywhere close to the fence it just helps you make up your mind. My take is if you can't name the source then most likely it's false. But if they have helped bring someone to their side with false information so be it. They will never be held accountable for the garbage and they know it!

[smitty]

You know, James, I've always thought that a lively discussion is always better.  But, James, there are some that can't even buy a clue.  So it's hard to keep it intellegently lively.  ;D

No bite to it.  Do you agree or disagree?  Or do you not know?  I'm trying to confirm if this figure is true or false. 

Ok, I'll bite.

Maybe you or your "reliable source" could post the data that was used to arrive at that figure???

Your numbers are exaggerated a bit smitty, same trending information from a reliable source I "C.A.R.E." not to believe.  ;D

I believe Penny has more historical numbers for you to believe since those are the numbers from an actual case and not one of what if's. Like I have said before smitty, you do keep it live on the board... ;D

[YankeeDawg]

By my math, compared to 2005 tax rates, after we pass the bond, taxes go DOWN by approximately 1%... and that's if you assume all 126 are out at the same time, which won't be the case.  If you compare it to the last couple of years very generous rates, then it's a 36% increase.  This is just my simple mind working, but in the end, it's all a matter of how you look at it and probably will be influenced by how you are voting.

How does that compare to the past year's taxes?  Isn' that like a 50% increase?

Not nit-picking, but isn't the figure $120.3  million?  or did I miss read something??  If they have $5.7 million up in the air, I'll help take some of it off their hands...

[dawgnut]

James, one dollar increase in ticket price X five home games X 8000 folks per game X ten years = 400,000.

[YankeeDawg]

James, one dollar increase in ticket price X five home games X 8000 folks per game X ten years = 400,000.

make it $1.25 dawgnut...to cover inflation.