Nederland Bond

[smitty]

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Best of luck to Nederland on the bond issue.  I sincerely believe, that the good folks in Nederland WILL DO IT FOR THE KIDS! ;D

I like that one. Do It for the kids.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

* * * * * * SENDING YOUR CHILD TO A SCHOOL THAT WAS BUILT DURING THE ROOSEVELT ADMINISTRATION * * * * *

   ****** 1 2 6   M I L L I O N   T A X   I N C R E A S E ******          

Best of luck to Nederland on the bond issue.  I sincerely believe, that the good folks in Nederland WILL DO IT FOR THE KIDS! ;D

I like that one. Do It for the kids.

[smitty]

Um, Purple 4ever, huh?  Sounds like another spreader of the PN-G taxpayer burden misery. 

Friend, it's not about the building.  You can learn in a building that was built during the Lincoln administration.  Tearing down schools and building new ones and spending 1.8 on a stadium will not educate one child, no matter how you spin it.

* * * * * * SENDING YOUR CHILD TO A SCHOOL THAT WAS BUILT DURING THE ROOSEVELT ADMINISTRATION * * * * *

   ****** 1 2 6   M I L L I O N   T A X   I N C R E A S E ******          

Best of luck to Nederland on the bond issue.  I sincerely believe, that the good folks in Nederland WILL DO IT FOR THE KIDS! ;D

I like that one. Do It for the kids.

[dawgnut]

smitty you must have been born during the Lincoln administration because buildings do matter today! If you try to upgrade any building you have this little matter of ADA to contend with, new fire codes, wind storm codes just to start with. It's cheaper to tear the building down and start over. Kid's today use everything visual, you can go back to the chalk board if you want your kids to be dumb and rocks, but if you don't then you better have some realy cool technology. As far as the cost of the stadium upgrades, go ahead wait a couple of years and you can pay 2.5 for the same thing. Simple math in construction cost you wait, you pay more like it or not.

[smitty]

Well, we'll see if the "shortsighted" taxpayer wants to be bled anymore.  As in all matter of taxes, the taxpayer will have the final say-so.  By the way, Dawgnuts, are you a taxpayer?

smitty you must have been born during the Lincoln administration because buildings do matter today! If you try to upgrade any building you have this little matter of ADA to contend with, new fire codes, wind storm codes just to start with. It's cheaper to tear the building down and start over. Kid's today use everything visual, you can go back to the chalk board if you want your kids to be dumb and rocks, but if you don't then you better have some realy cool technology. As far as the cost of the stadium upgrades, go ahead wait a couple of years and you can pay 2.5 for the same thing. Simple math in construction cost you wait, you pay more like it or not.

[adminbaberuth]

Since President Obama carried Jefferson county and most of all our government leaders are Democrats can we grab some of this stimulus money and cut this bond in half?

[smitty]

Now that's an idea!!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Since President Obama carried Jefferson county and most of all our government leaders are Democrats can we grab some of this stimulus money and cut this bond in half?

[Bigdog]

More than likely, it will be done near the beginning of the project, much like PN-G's is now usable when their schools are not yet finished. Many people say that is because of athletics taking priority, but the real reason for that is because work on a field and press box are much easier work than building an entire new school and the construction will go quicker as well.

Look at a field being put down and a school being renovated/constructed. I can tell you real quick what the easier job is, and I don't even work in construction.

The thought on the stadiums is pretty much a "get the easy stuff out of the way first" mentality. Then you are one project down within a few months of construction beginning.

That is my two cents on that anyway.

My question was when do you think our new High School and new Stadium would be built, not talking about when the press box would be built, when will we sit and watch a football game in a new stadium and when will a brand new high school be completed? Just curious as to your guess on when this would occur.

The press box is not a determining factor for me.

You might need to read through the entire bond package.  It includes several new schools, 3 elementary, C.O. Wilson, and a complete remodel of the high school.  The stadium stuff is a drop in the bucket.

[Bigdog]

I love how people take one small part of a bond and pick it apart and say "I'm not voting for field turf or a new press box."  Bull-pucky.  The major part of the bond is the schools which we badly need, this is coming from someone who worked in the District and did plenty of climbing around in those schools. If you want your kids to go to school in 60 year buildings with 60 year old mold and mildew , just so you can vote against the field turf, then move somewhere else, 

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[smitty]

Kool-aid's dripping everywhere.  Put your boots on folks, it's a gettin' deep.

I love how people take one small part of a bond and pick it apart and say "I'm not voting for field turf or a new press box."  Bull-pucky.  The major part of the bond is the schools which we badly need, this is coming from someone who worked in the District and did plenty of climbing around in those schools. If you want your kids to go to school in 60 year buildings with 60 year old mold and mildew , just so you can vote against the field turf, then move somewhere else, 

[move] I'm backing the bond![/move]

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[smitty]

Another point:  With all these problems you state, my salient question is:  Who was asleep at the wheel that let all these problems grow without fixing them as they arose??  And don't say they didn't have the money.  Nederland has one of the highest tax rates in the area, if not the state.  So, in your zeal you unwittingly gave ammunition to the anti-bond crowd.  How?  If they can't take care of what they have, you and others want to give them more money?  Bizarre!  This must be some dang good kool-aid the pro-bonders are being served.  IMHO.  ???  ???  ???

I love how people take one small part of a bond and pick it apart and say "I'm not voting for field turf or a new press box."  Bull-pucky.  The major part of the bond is the schools which we badly need, this is coming from someone who worked in the District and did plenty of climbing around in those schools. If you want your kids to go to school in 60 year buildings with 60 year old mold and mildew , just so you can vote against the field turf, then move somewhere else, 

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[NDNWarrior]

As an educator, myself, it DOES matter about the school buildings.  In order for kids to stay at the forefront, newer buildings are needed that can contain the technology requirements, science labs, theater arts, athletics, etc.  It would cost more to try to upgrade present 60 year old building with the wiring along for computer labs, etc, in the long run.  I applaud Nederland for going forth with this bond proposal, and again, I stand by my statement to "do it for the kids".  I agree, most folks will focus on the press box and field turf instead of the opportunities to see the educational process afforded by new buildings to help the students of Nederland excel. 

[ems2430]

You bring up a good point, NDNWarrior.  Renovation was studied and looked at for this bond, however the cost to do this was just as much as the cost to replace many of the schools, therefore the decision was made to build new schools.  The current schools are also highly energy inefficient and utilize window units to a large degree.  It is estimated that energy savings alone will amount to approximately $19,000.00 per year, per campus.

[smitty]

As an educator you should know better than that.  It's the quality of the teachers that count NOT the buildings.  I've seen kids expertly taught in portable buildings.  And with no A/C, I might add.  So, no, this is all a ruse by the pro-bonders to try and get this passed with toucy-feely, "do it for the kids" cover. 

As an educator, myself, it DOES matter about the school buildings.  In order for kids to stay at the forefront, newer buildings are needed that can contain the technology requirements, science labs, theater arts, athletics, etc.  It would cost more to try to upgrade present 60 year old building with the wiring along for computer labs, etc, in the long run.  I applaud Nederland for going forth with this bond proposal, and again, I stand by my statement to "do it for the kids".  I agree, most folks will focus on the press box and field turf instead of the opportunities to see the educational process afforded by new buildings to help the students of Nederland excel. 

[ems2430]

Another important fact that has not been discussed is that if you are 65 or older, your taxes are not effected.  This question has come up several times.

Smitty, I respect your opinion, but if buildings are not fixed and/or replaced it does effect the quality of education.  Port Arthur has a school building that was not dealt with and that building is now empty, on the verge of being condemned from what I have been told, and does not meet the educational needs of one child.

[NDNWarrior]

I agree, teacher quality is of the utmost importance, however, providing the best environment for a student to learn, in my opinion, is a major purpose of this bond.  I agree, many students have learned in portable buildings, but have you ever took time to listen to the teacher trying to create a science lab in a portable building?  No matter what you say, I feel the older buildings that aren't up to par handicaps an educator in a classroom.  Now, with the internet so widely used, the involvement of "smart boards", laptops, many programs designed and used by computer technology, the days of old have gone by the wayside.  The technology evolution is here and we have to keep our kids abreast to the opportunities afforded to them by this design.  I have a hard time that you feel that "doing it for the kids" is a cover.  It SHOULD be done for the kids....FIRST and FOREMOST.  The kids are our future and anything that a district can do to engage the cognitive process for the better is worth doing.  Again, I applaud the good folks in Nederland for the proposal. Best of luck to you!

[smitty]

So, basically you agree:  These bond issues are wants and not needs.  A bad teacher is a bad teacher, no matter what they are housed in.  I believe the Ned students are doing just fine with what they have.  I doubt their scores or motivations will change if 126 million dollars is spent. 

Think about it, all this money for stadium improvements (1.8 million dollars) is a want because it won' t make a team play any better or worst.  Example:  How many games have the Injuns won in their fine new stadium?  Um, I'm wondering here: Is Ned trying to keep up with the Injuns.  Something to ponder on.

I agree, teacher quality is of the utmost importance, however, providing the best environment for a student to learn, in my opinion, is a major purpose of this bond.  I agree, many students have learned in portable buildings, but have you ever took time to listen to the teacher trying to create a science lab in a portable building?  No matter what you say, I feel the older buildings that aren't up to par handicaps an educator in a classroom.  Now, with the internet so widely used, the involvement of "smart boards", laptops, many programs designed and used by computer technology, the days of old have gone by the wayside.  The technology evolution is here and we have to keep our kids abreast to the opportunities afforded to them by this design.  I have a hard time that you feel that "doing it for the kids" is a cover.  It SHOULD be done for the kids....FIRST and FOREMOST.  The kids are our future and anything that a district can do to engage the cognitive process for the better is worth doing.  Again, I applaud the good folks in Nederland for the proposal. Best of luck to you!

[NHS83LU87]

Environment does make a difference.  It should not be minimalized.  I remember days in Nederland schools before A/C was put in and I was too hot and miserable to pay attention in class.  It wasn't the teachers fault.  There were tons of distractions at the high school due to it's design.  Cost efficiency is not a want it is a need.  I am sure there are some wants in this bond but there are needs as well.  I originally focused solely on the stadium to justify not voting for it but have changed my mind and will vote for the bond because I do believe the other 97% needs to be accomplished.  I do not want my grandkids(hopefully several years from now after my sons have finished college ;D) to be going to the same schools I went to because they were already twenty years old when I went to them.  They were built at a time when toxic building materials were allowed and learning technologies were different.  It has to be done sometime and it will not get cheaper.   

[YankeeDawg]

Suggestion:

Make the bond a 2 line issue instead of lumping it all together...

A. $120* million for educational upgrades (3 new elementaryschools, new COW , HS upgrades)

B. $1.8* million for stadium upgrades

* (or whatever to proposed figures are)

Let voters vote for either None, A, B, or both.

This would make voters feels that in order to have new educational facilities they won't be forced to swallow almost 2 million for stadium upgrades.

If they want the stadium upgrades they can vote for that line as well.

[NDNWarrior]

I do NOT believe that Nederland is trying to keep up with PNG.  Nederland is looking out for the best interest of the kids.  And to refute your argument, advances in technology involving the education process does have an impact on state testing and measurement. I've stated my stance on this issue, and again, I feel Nederland is doing the right thing in trying to get this bond proposal passed.

[NDNWarrior]

Suggestion:

Make the bond a 2 line issue instead of lumping it all together...

A. $120* million for educational upgrades (3 new elementaryschools, new COW , HS upgrades)

B. $1.8* million for stadium upgrades

* (or whatever to proposed figures are)

Let voters vote for either None, A, B, or both.

This would make voters feels that in order to have new educational facilities they won't be forced to swallow almost 2 million for stadium upgrades.

If they want the stadium upgrades they can vote for that line as well.

Good post.

[smitty]

We shall see.  The final decision -- as always -- will be those financing this huge expenditure -- the taxpayer.  So, again, we shall see...

I do NOT believe that Nederland is trying to keep up with PNG.  Nederland is looking out for the best interest of the kids.  And to refute your argument, advances in technology involving the education process does have an impact on state testing and measurement. I've stated my stance on this issue, and again, I feel Nederland is doing the right thing in trying to get this bond proposal passed.

[NDNWarrior]

Smitty, you have some valid points and I commend you for posting them.  Its good to be able to see opposing  sides of an issue.

[adminbaberuth]

I was talking to a few local contractors this week. The Nederland Bond issue came up and they knew I was from Nederland, they offered this advice.

Use local architechs who pay local Nederland taxes. Their reason the consultants get a % of total bond cost.

Since I'm not on bond committee I'm sure this has been already been addressed.

Nederland school trustees choose bond architects, one alternate

By GREG HAYES

April, 6, 2009

The Nederland school district board of trustees chose four architectural firms and one alternate to handle the construction work under the upcoming $120.3 million bond project, should it pass in the May 9 election.

Approved were Architectural Alliance of Beaumont and Houston-based firms Bay Architects, Pfluger Associates and SBWV. The alternate firm chosen was Corgan Associates, also based out of Houston.

Superintendent Gail Krohn said that an alternate was chosen just in case any problems should arise between the bond passing and construction projects being given out.

"The board will not decide which projects they want to present to a certain firm until after the bond passes," she said. "Anything could happen between now and then, and one of these firms may have too many projects they are working on by the time the board contacts them with ours. That is why we chose an alternate."

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[fbplayer999]

We got it Smitty, you don't want you tax to increase.  Do you want our kids in old decrepit buildings because your one of those guys that use to walk 5 miles to school without shoes in the freezing weather.  Do whats best for Nederland, in the long run this is the best thing we can do to make sure Nederland and NISD improves.