Nederland Bond

[Guest Penny]

I think the only thing folks on this board supporting the bond have to gain is the value of the investment in the schools and athletic facilities.  Are you saying we are all members of this contractor that was named in the paper and will get our pockets lined???  Talk about disengenuous if that's what you're saying. 

[Gtj007]

I attack were I feel attacks are warranted.  And I applaud where praise is warranted.  I praised Neumann more then I attacked him.

Why is there a need to "attack a High School Football Coach" for ANY reason??

[smitty]

No, that's not what I meant at all.  But how many are on the committee and how many are employed by the district?  Was not thinking about any contractors. 

I think the only thing folks on this board supporting the bond have to gain is the value of the investment in the schools and athletic facilities.  Are you saying we are all members of this contractor that was named in the paper and will get our pockets lined???  Talk about disengenuous if that's what you're saying. 

[Guest Penny]

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

[smitty]

Do I need to give another civics lessons here?  Anytime tax dollars are involved anyone can attack/complain if one feels they aren't getting their money's worth.  If your child was taught by a sorry teacher, would you complain or stay silent?  As a taxpayer to any district, one has that right.  Sounds like we have a bunch of sheeple here.  This lesson is free of charge.

I attack were I feel attacks are warranted.  And I applaud where praise is warranted.  I praised Neumann more then I attacked him.

Why is there a need to "attack a High School Football Coach" for ANY reason??

[smitty]

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

[westend1]

This is my point all along.  When the pro-bonders say "do it for the kids" then you know they feel they are fighting a losing battle.  They've lost the intellectual battle now they have to try and tug on your heart strings.  Just stick with he facts.

Same old pork story.  They don't want to you have the option to vote down the football field.  If you vote against the proposal, you hate the kids.  Already been there, in Beaumont.

Is it so hard for you to comprehend people that actually have the kids interest first? Does anyone that makes that statement have to have an ulterior motive?  ??? ???

Those opposed to the bond also have the kids interest at heart.  They just don't want to waste money on unecessary expenses(like a 1.8 million dollar pressbox)    Why not put some of those things in a separate bond?  I think most would vote for upgrading classrooms.    The ulterior motive is, they want the bond passed(even with the wasteful spending) and they defend it by saying it's for the kids.

[smitty]

Excellent post!

This is my point all along.  When the pro-bonders say "do it for the kids" then you know they feel they are fighting a losing battle.  They've lost the intellectual battle now they have to try and tug on your heart strings.  Just stick with he facts.

Same old pork story.  They don't want to you have the option to vote down the football field.  If you vote against the proposal, you hate the kids.  Already been there, in Beaumont.

Is it so hard for you to comprehend people that actually have the kids interest first? Does anyone that makes that statement have to have an ulterior motive?  ??? ???

Those opposed to the bond also have the kids interest at heart.  They just don't want to waste money on unecessary expenses(like a 1.8 million dollar pressbox)    Why not put some of those things in a separate bond?  I think most would vote for upgrading classrooms.    The ulterior motive is, they want the bond passed(even with the wasteful spending) and they defend it by saying it's for the kids.

[smitty]

James, my friend, I'm afraid you might be right.  Sad, but true!  Voter apathy is a problem and I'm not sure how to solve it.  Maybe if everyone would start reading these post, then maybe both sides of the issue would get fired up and vote.  Anyway, good post.     

quote author=James Mosley link=topic=53152.msg566233#msg566233 date=1239162584]

This post has been read 1339 times, that is more than voter turn out will be for this bond issue.  ;D

[mat]

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

[smitty]

I'll say again, and agree with you: there is nothing wrong with this stadium.  But I'm afraid there are those that wants to spend a ton of money on it just to keep up with the Jones'. 

You got to admit people that is already one nice football facility. Nothing better than a deep green grass field, press box does look a tad on the small side. It only covers the length of one full section.

[smitty]

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???  Good!  ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

[NHS83LU87]

I don't work for NISD and my sons will both have graduated by the time any of the bond changes take place. 

I too wish they had proposed the bond in two parts but they haven't and I still after looking at both sides (and I stress I was initially vehemently opposed to it) believe it is in the best interest of Nederland.  I am young enough that I will pay the taxes a long time so I do not take this lightly. 

On the press box issue, there is no doubt that 1.8 million is a lot of money.  Simply stated the current press box is in such disrepair, probably due to lack of upkeep(just a guess and not pointing fingers), that you do have to come into compliance with ADA.  We can say these problems should have been addressed as they occurred but it's too late to go back now and do so.  I am not a contractor nor am I a ADA lawyer therefore I cannot come close to saying what it should cost.

As for as a person being painted as biased simply because they work for NISD, that is a bias against employees.  Just because you work someplace does not mean you cannot be objective.  Anyone that has disagreed with the opposition view seems to be negatively labeled.  Respect the debate, it is what makes this country great! 

[smitty]

Have you come across anyone that is on the committee that is against the bond issue??  How about employed with the district??  But I wouldn't say it's impossible that some employees might be against it but it's HIGHLY unlikely.  But, on the other hand, I hope some would be. 

As far as respecting the conversation, I wouldn't be on here trying to educate people and hoping others see that there is a bigger picture.  One bit of advice:  Watch out for the kool-aid.    ;D  ;D  ;D

I don't work for NISD and my sons will both have graduated by the time any of the bond changes take place. 

I too wish they had proposed the bond in two parts but they haven't and I still after looking at both sides (and I stress I was initially vehemently opposed to it) believe it is in the best interest of Nederland.  I am young enough that I will pay the taxes a long time so I do not take this lightly. 

On the press box issue, there is no doubt that 1.8 million is a lot of money.  Simply stated the current press box is in such disrepair, probably due to lack of upkeep(just a guess and not pointing fingers), that you do have to come into compliance with ADA.  We can say these problems should have been addressed as they occurred but it's too late to go back now and do so.  I am not a contractor nor am I a ADA lawyer therefore I cannot come close to saying what it should cost.

As for as a person being painted as biased simply because they work for NISD, that is a bias against employees.  Just because you work someplace does not mean you cannot be objective.  Anyone that has disagreed with the opposition view seems to be negatively labeled.  Respect the debate, it is what makes this country great!   

[fbplayer999]

Smitty's not from Nederland.... but he is bitter about something.... all of the time.

then why does smitty care so much,,,,,,,,

[smitty]

Friend, you haven't figured it out yet?!  ???  Keep trying and get back with me. 

quote author=fbplayer999 link=topic=53152.msg566493#msg566493 date=1239176601]

Smitty's not from Nederland.... but he is bitter about something.... all of the time.

then why does smitty care so much,,,,,,,,

[mat]

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???   Good!   ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

Not clear.

In your attempt to educate you failed to explain the other side of the coin. Biased can be someone that does not want their taxes to go up no matter what the need or benefit and tries to discredit those who may have some involved insight. (By the way, I totally understand and respect the statement that someone doesn't want or can't afford a tax increase but not at the experience of discrediting others)

So who needs the education?

By not answering the question about being a Nederland tax payer I will assume your not and you really just enjoy a good debate.  ;D ;D

[LUFAN]

Hey atleast we get to vote on this unlike ford park and that god awful stimuls package that was just rammed down our throat.

[Guest Brubaker]

Smitty supports PNG.

[LUFAN]

Well then it really doesnt matter what Smitty says at all..  He cant vote..

He needs to worry about the business in the town that he resides in...       

[Bucof2010]

I'll say again, and agree with you: there is nothing wrong with this stadium.  But I'm afraid there are those that wants to spend a ton of money on it just to keep up with the Jones'. 

You got to admit people that is already one nice football facility. Nothing better than a deep green grass field, press box does look a tad on the small side. It only covers the length of one full section.

Very nice point

[NDNWarrior]

Smitty supports PNG.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

You got to admit people that is already one nice football facility. Nothing better than a deep green grass field, press box does look a tad on the small side. It only covers the length of one full section.

Take the same picture after a couple of weeks of rain in the fall and the field is ripped to shreds from having two junior high games, a freshmen or JV game, and a varsity game each week on it.

Won't be so green.

The sod in the middle of the field is good, but the drainage along the sidelines is not designed well, and usually this field just doesn't hold up when it is soaked.

Not to belittle the field, but the lighting is also not one of the best although it is much better since they moved the lights from in front of the stands to behind the stands (and I am just saying this due to having done video and photography at most of the area stadiums)

Also think of this....

The football stadium is probably the most used public facility in the school district (if you just count the attendance at all the games played there (varsity, JV/Fr, JH, and soccer).  The money spent on the stadium in the bond, might be high, but if you wait the price for the same upgrades will only get more expensive.

Many people may think of this as keeping up with the Jones' and in one since it is true since PN-G just poured a lot (and I mean a lot) of money to upgrade the Reservation, but as previously stated, holding off on the improvements only increases the cost.

[smitty]

PS - Don't believe every thing you read and half of what you see.  Enigma's are hard to grasp sometimes.

        ;D  ;D

Smitty's not from Nederland.... but he is bitter about something.... all of the time.

then why does smitty care so much,,,,,,,,

[smitty]

The problem arises, on either side, when one listens to only one side and thinks it's gospel.  One may have a personal interest in the outcome.  This is bias.  And one has to take this into consideration.  Anything else you need educating on, let me know.  Unlike the 126 million dollar tax increase, it free!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???   Good!   ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

Not clear.

In your attempt to educate you failed to explain the other side of the coin. Biased can be someone that does not want their taxes to go up no matter what the need or benefit and tries to discredit those who may have some involved insight. (By the way, I totally understand and respect the statement that someone doesn't want or can't afford a tax increase but not at the experience of discrediting others)

So who needs the education?

By not answering the question about being a Nederland tax payer I will assume your not and you really just enjoy a good debate.  ;D ;D