Nederland Bond

[smitty]

Bru, you disappoint me! 

Smitty supports PNG.

[smitty]

MAT - A Bears fan? 

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???   Good!   ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

Not clear.

In your attempt to educate you failed to explain the other side of the coin. Biased can be someone that does not want their taxes to go up no matter what the need or benefit and tries to discredit those who may have some involved insight. (By the way, I totally understand and respect the statement that someone doesn't want or can't afford a tax increase but not at the experience of discrediting others)

So who needs the education?

By not answering the question about being a Nederland tax payer I will assume your not and you really just enjoy a good debate.  ;D ;D

[mat]

MAT - A Bears fan? 

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???   Good!   ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

Not clear.

In your attempt to educate you failed to explain the other side of the coin. Biased can be someone that does not want their taxes to go up no matter what the need or benefit and tries to discredit those who may have some involved insight. (By the way, I totally understand and respect the statement that someone doesn't want or can't afford a tax increase but not at the experience of discrediting others)

So who needs the education?

By not answering the question about being a Nederland tax payer I will assume your not and you really just enjoy a good debate.  ;D ;D

Yes

Also a fan of other area schools

Also a fan of educational improvent 

[smitty]

Didn't ya'll vote down a tax increase (bond issue) recently?  Or am I thinking of someone else?

MAT - A Bears fan? 

Let me educate you, my friend, in the definition of biased and unbiased.  If you have first hand experience and no ties to the district as an employee or a member of the bond committee then this is an unbiased opinion.  This is good.  Those that I direct the term at is those that are on the committee and employees of the district.  Therefore this is a biased opinion. What side do you think they are going to fall on on this debate?    Nothing wrong with that, but, non-the-less, it should be understood.  And I don't know who is or who isn't in one or both of these biased categories.  But regurgitating the constant talking points and kool-aid, one might, just might, be able to make an educated guess.  Clear?!   ???  ???   Good!   ;D  ;D

Good.  Then your opinion is unbiased, the way it aught to be.  But the people I'm talking about know who they are.  I'm more interested in an unbiased opinion.  We'll all debate the issue and see which side prevails.  Again, good job. 

All I can tell you is I'm not.  Whether you believe that or not is up to you. 

You continue to discredit those with first hand experience with a "bias" label. Your "unbiased" definition appears to be an opinion of those that may be the least knowledgeable.

I respectfully ask; who much time and effort have you personally spent really access the need of the district?

Agenda? Whats wrong with an agenda to improve school facilities, reduce utilities, improve technology, etc... and yes, improve athletic facilities.

I also ask; are you a Nederland tax payer? Just wondering and on disrespect intended.

Not clear.

In your attempt to educate you failed to explain the other side of the coin. Biased can be someone that does not want their taxes to go up no matter what the need or benefit and tries to discredit those who may have some involved insight. (By the way, I totally understand and respect the statement that someone doesn't want or can't afford a tax increase but not at the experience of discrediting others)

So who needs the education?

By not answering the question about being a Nederland tax payer I will assume your not and you really just enjoy a good debate.  ;D ;D

Yes

Also a fan of other area schools

Also a fan of educational improvent 

[mat]

In the last few years I think LCM, Vidor and Lumberton had bonds vote down.

Bonds passed; PA, PNG, WOC, BMT, Orangefield, HJ, Deweyville, BC and I'm sure others I've forgotten.

I'm going off memory and apologize if any of this info is incorrect.

[dawgnut]

smitty are you trying to tell us that you aren't biased? Every bond has good and bad points, all you talk about are the bad nothing good. Your bias comes out every time your fingers touch the keyboard.

[smitty]

Again, that's not the biased I'm talking about.  I thought I was specific on what I meant.  There were only two.  Now, you listening?  If one is on the committee or one is employed by the district and the spout that this 126 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase is the best thing since sliced bread, then yes, that is biased.  Since I am neither I can therefore debate from an unbiased position.  I am totally against this huge tax increase.  But on the other hand I could, not likely, be persuaded to see it your way. 

smitty are you trying to tell us that you aren't biased? Every bond has good and bad points, all you talk about are the bad nothing good. Your bias comes out every time your fingers touch the keyboard.

[NDNWarrior]

For the life of me, the bond proposal is an investment in the future for the kids!  Property taxes will increase, but the return on the investment in the  the kids is worth it!  I voted for and was very glad when the PNG bond was approved. And I know the good folks at Nederland will feel the same way.  You're gonna have the "naysayers" and those that want to pick the bond to pieces, but thats just one of those things that will happen.  Good luck, Nederland, on your bond proposal.  You have a GREAT district with the administrators, teachers, students, parents, and community support!

[smitty]

"You have a GREAT district with the administrators, teachers, students, parents, and community support!" 

There will be no change, despite what the doom and gloomers say, to what you have written here if/when this massive tax increase fails.  The sun will rise, the birds will chirp and all the pro-bonders in these discussions will live happily ever after.  And, I might add, a little more money in their pockets for their families.     

For the life of me, the bond proposal is an investment in the future for the kids!  Property taxes will increase, but the return on the investment in the  the kids is worth it!  I voted for and was very glad when the PNG bond was approved. And I know the good folks at Nederland will feel the same way.  You're gonna have the "naysayers" and those that want to pick the bond to pieces, but thats just one of those things that will happen.  Good luck, Nederland, on your bond proposal.  You have a GREAT district with the administrators, teachers, students, parents, and community support!

[hookem14]

What a TOOL !!!

[NewIndian]

The field is gonna get more tore up next year when STJFL kids start using it also

[RustedCutlass]

If one is on the committee or one is employed by the district and the spout that this 126 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase is the best thing since sliced bread, then yes, that is biased.

Well if you are going to have an unbiased debate, you might want to use the correct figure. The bond is $120.3 million, not $126 million. Just in the delay from calling the election off in November, construction prices have gone down.

[Bigdog]

The field is gonna get more tore up next year when STJFL kids start using it also

I thought they were playing at the high school on one of the practice fields???

[smitty]

Wow!  Good news?!  Taxpayer gets dinged for 120 million dollars instead of 126 million.  Maybe if we wait some more it'll go down to where's it's actually affordable.  Now that we could agree on!  ;D  ;D

If one is on the committee or one is employed by the district and the spout that this 126 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase is the best thing since sliced bread, then yes, that is biased.

Well if you are going to have an unbiased debate, you might want to use the correct figure. The bond is $120.3 million, not $126 million. Just in the delay from calling the election off in November, construction prices have gone down.

[smitty]

Personally I wouldn't think Neumann would let them play on the big field.

The field is gonna get more tore up next year when STJFL kids start using it also

I thought they were playing at the high school on one of the practice fields???

[baddog]

Who on here has any knowledge of what property owners of apartment complexes and trailer parks pay towards school taxes? I'm sure it's nowhere near what a single family unit property owner has to deal with. I think apartment and trailer dwellers should have to cough up something, in addition to what their property owner pays, towards school taxes to help with my burden. I am tired of footing the bill for others. I am being penalized for owning property.

I know the buildings need upgrading, but please don't tell me that kids can't learn in old buildings. I guess Harvard needs razing.

I don't have all the figures for rebuilding as opposed to upgrading, but I do understand that it is sometimes better moneywise, to start afresh. I will probably vote in favor of the bond mainly for the field turf and press box.....just to ''keep up with PNG''.  ;D

We all know smitty must live under a bridge.

[smitty]

"We all know smitty must live under a bridge."  If I did then I wouldn't have to worry about these massive tax increases that these different school district's keep trying to soak us with.  The more Nederland raises taxes (school and city), the more business' will run away (Walmart, Conns).  Why do you think all those business' are springing up across 69?  They could come to Nederland.  Why don't they?  Because of already high tax rates?  Consequently, homeowners will have to shoulder a bigger burden of these confiscatory taxes.  But since a majority here doesn't like to look at the big picture then some may not understand what was just said. 

PS - ''keep up with PNG''  I think there is a lot to this statement than some will admit!  IMHO.   

Who on here has any knowledge of what property owners of apartment complexes and trailer parks pay towards school taxes? I'm sure it's nowhere near what a single family unit property owner has to deal with. I think apartment and trailer dwellers should have to cough up something, in addition to what their property owner pays, towards school taxes to help with my burden. I am tired of footing the bill for others. I am being penalized for owning property.

I know the buildings need upgrading, but please don't tell me that kids can't learn in old buildings. I guess Harvard needs razing.

I don't have all the figures for rebuilding as opposed to upgrading, but I do understand that it is sometimes better moneywise, to start afresh. I will probably vote in favor of the bond mainly for the field turf and press box.....just to ''keep up with PNG''.  ;D

We all know smitty must live under a bridge.

[RustedCutlass]

Wow!  Good news?!  Taxpayer gets dinged for 120 million dollars instead of 126 million.  Maybe if we wait some more it'll go down to where's it's actually affordable.  Now that we could agree on!   ;D  ;D

While I admire your desire to be the devil's advocate, we both know that won't be the case. The state of the economy and slow work has contractors willing to bid less than they usually would just so they can actually have work during this economic downturn. That's how I see it. And, if that is really the case, hence the savings for the taxpayers.

Once the economy picks back up, so do the prices. If Nederland residents have any desire to better the district, they better do it now while prices are low. If they wait, like you say they should, they will be paying more later and hurting themselves worse.

And your comment about Wal-Mart? You do realize that they moved across to Port Arthur which ALREADY passed a bond and is building new schools? Which means taxes were already up!

Again, I admire the devil's advocate schtick you have going, but don't let it keep clouding your judgement in future posts.

[baddog]

smitty, get a life dude. Everyone already knows your stance. It has now become a rant and losing any punch it may have had. In fact, you quoted my post and answered absolutely nothing. Good job.

Circuit City had no problem coming here. Not enough room in Ned. to build a huge mall....maybe Beauxart Garden could have handled a small strip mall, but it seems to be out of the picture now as development for a gated community has already started.

The PNG comment was a joke. Even PNG people can see that. Everyone can't have everything all at once. Some things take time, plus field upgrading was buzzing with the building of the new scoreboard.

[smitty]

When one is confused it appears to be a rant.  No rants here when exploring the bigger picture.  I'll give you another chance:  Why did Walmart and Conns leave?  Gated community, boy that'll bring in massive taxes.  High tax rates destroys the business environment.  But this type of discussion is a rant to some.  So, I'll stop -- for now.  ;D

But the bottom line is, if you are happy with the tax rates in Nederland then you'll vote for more.  I'm not complaining, mind you, on that point.  Because that's you and your family's business. 

PS - I see you are on here a lot also:  You got a life?!  Just curious since you brought it up.  ;D  ;D

smitty, get a life dude. Everyone already knows your stance. It has now become a rant and losing any punch it may have had. In fact, you quoted my post and answered absolutely nothing. Good job.

Circuit City had no problem coming here. Not enough room in Ned. to build a huge mall....maybe Beauxart Garden could have handled a small strip mall, but it seems to be out of the picture now as development for a gated community has already started.

The PNG comment was a joke. Even PNG people can see that. Everyone can't have everything all at once. Some things take time, plus field upgrading was buzzing with the building of the new scoreboard.

[baddog]

No confusion here except for the need to repeat your negative side.

China's Wal Mart and ex-Conns left for the greener pastures of PA and less taxes. China's Wal Mart to build a super store. The only thing super is the size. I personally never shopped at either and still don't, but Ned. misses their tax base....of course. Circuit City built a new store in the Ned. area....Hmmmmmm.

My last post on this subject. Still no answers to any of my above questions.

[gvnbrn]

EMS, When the bond committee studied the proposals made by lan walton.Why were no scematics or engineering proposals made available to the committee addressing renovation cost to each of the 4 buildings.Did any committee members think to persue this or were they so taken by the presentation made by ian walton that you did not think it was needed to make an informed decision. The committee was tainted by the number of school district employees and board members on the committee.District maintenance has been poor and very under funded for years. The current administration has not paid the needed attention that these buildings need.These walk thrus have proven the these builds are sound structures and are in need of renovation and not razing as Lan Walton suggest. Here is a prime example of how misguided a community can be. The score board was supposed to be baught and paid for with corporations buying space on the board. Well guess what the money goal was never reached and we the taxpayers are carrying the remainder of its cost. The administration and school board assured us that this would not cost us .Just like the FORD PARK farce are you not tired of the politicians telling you what we need. Make a stand  Vote No !

[YankeeDawg]

EMS, When the bond committee studied the proposals made by lan walton.Why were no scematics or engineering proposals made available to the committee addressing renovation cost to each of the 4 buildings.Did any committee members think to persue this or were they so taken by the presentation made by ian walton that you did not think it was needed to make an informed decision. The committee was tainted by the number of school district employees and board members on the committee.District maintenance has been poor and very under funded for years. The current administration has not paid the needed attention that these buildings need.These walk thrus have proven the these builds are sound structures and are in need of renovation and not razing as Lan Walton suggest. Here is a prime example of how misguided a community can be. The score board was supposed to be baught and paid for with corporations buying space on the board. Well guess what the money goal was never reached and we the taxpayers are carrying the remainder of its cost. The administration and school board assured us that this would not cost us .Just like the FORD PARK farce are you not tired of the politicians telling you what we need. Make a stand  Vote No !

???

How much of the cost was not covered by corporate sponsors??

[NewIndian]

The field is gonna get more tore up next year when STJFL kids start using it also

I thought they were playing at the high school on one of the practice fields???

well if a read it right this next year they were gonna start using the HS firld on saturdays in a recent Ned board meeting

[ems2430]

Who said that renovation was never considered?  The cost to renovate all four elementary schools was very close to the same amount to rebuild three new ones.  You guys say stop the waste and actually, we agree on that point.  If you spend major money renovating these older schools, then how much time does that buy you?  Say it's 10 years.  Then when you need repairs/renovations, what do you do?  Go back to taxpayers for more money to fix buildings that or now 60 years old or better.  The question becomes, at what pont are you throwing good money after bad.

As far as the scoreboard goes, you are incorrect.  I often wonder where information like this comes from.  The company, Datatrak, bears the risk of sponsorships being filled up or not, not the schools district.  The other side of that is if they manage to get more sponsorship money than aniticipated, they reap the rewards.  I did take the time to verify this information this morning.  NISD's only cost was for electrical set up and the slab that the sign sits on.  The community is not misguided on this issue at all.

When you have classes in partitions in the hallroom and have hundreds of students per day going to class in portable buildings, something needs to be done.  Another factor is reliance on window units.  Can you renovate this stuff? Sure, but at what cost?  The numbers and this bond proposal were not just pulled out of thin air saying let's build new schools.  This was studied for quite a while.