Baddog.......Here is something to chew on Tiger vs. Jack

[Guest spinks]

You have maintained throughout this that Jacks career was better because of his competition and you have implied that many of Tigers victories are because players fold.  I will make a few points stating Tigers case again.

First of all to the competition.  So many people include Palmer and Player in the equation when speaking of Nicklaus' competition.  Only 7 of Nicklaus' 18 Majors came in the 60's.  Gary player won 4 majors in the 70's and Arnold Palmer won 0.  Both were well past their prime in the 70's which is where Jack really dominated.  In fact apart from Jack's first major victory ever(62' US open where he defeated Palmer in a playoff) neither Palmer or Player EVER challenged him in a Major.  They both finished runner up to him in the 65 masters but that was a NINE shot victory over them and then again in the 67 US Open Jack defeated Arnie by 4 shots.  Jacks Major other major victories had runner ups like Tony Lema, Billy Casper, Dave Ragan, Gary Brewer, Tommy Jacobs, Doug Sanders, Dave Thomas, Bruce Crampton, Tommy Mitchell, Tom Weiskopf, Johny Miller, Simon Owen, and Isao Aoki.  This list is far from great besides a few names.  Those are just some of the names during the prime of Jack's career.  Only ONE time in a Major during Jacks prime did Floyd, Crenshaw, or Norman challenge him in a major.  Tom Kite challenged him twice and the great Andy Bean challenged him once.  Now after reading these names please do not tell me that Jack was a Giant killer in Majors.

Like I stated before Tiger has NEVER and I repeat NEVER come back to win a Major. Every major Tiger has won has either been from ahead or tied going in to the final round.  Tiger has NEVER had majors handed to him like Jack did a few times.  Jack trailed going in to the final round in 8 of his 18 majors.  Some were good come backs but more of them were due to both jack having solid play and others folding so that buries that argument that players do not step up to Tiger and challenge him because the did not to Jack either. 

Cannot wait to hear you spin this one!

[Guest nostradamus]

Here's the spin Spinks:

See......I told you the fields were deeper during Jacks day. :

[AggiesAreWe]

My take on this is I personally think that Tiger is the best to have played the game but I won't officially say he is the greatest of all time until he beats Jacks 18 majors.

[Lazeek]

Will happen within 3-4 years if not much sooner!!!

[Guest nostradamus]

My take on this is I personally think that Tiger is the best to have played the game and I will say he is the greatest of all time WHEN he beats Jacks 18 majors.

[1989NDN]

Nicklaus had several challengers throughout the 1960s and 1970s ... Arnold Palmer and Gary Player were in their prime during the 1960s ... Lee Trevino, Tom Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros, Ray Floyd, Tom Kite, Gary Player, and several others challenged Nicklaus during the 1970s.  Duirng the early to mid-1980s, you saw great players like Ballesteros, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo (Faldo was more of the late 1980s and 1990s), Curtis Strange, Ben Crenshaw, Hale Irwin, and a young gun like Fred Couples.  I hear the argument that Jack Nicklaus faced a deeper field during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s ... maybe, maybe not.  It's hard for me to accept that players in the late 1990s and today, i.e., Vijay Singh, Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson, Geoff Ogilvy, Jose Maria Olazabal, Adam Scott, Retief Goosen, Sergio Garcia, Padrig Harrington, etc. are not as good --- or better --- than what we saw during the 1970s and 1980s.  Jack faced some tough players.  He won against some strong competition.  However, you can make the same argument for Tiger.  Who was playing better than Padrig Harrington last year?

For my money, and I'm a huge fan of Jack Nicklaus, I'd say Tiger Woods is the best to ever pick up a golf club.  His ability to grind it out, his shot making skills, mental toughness, focus, course management, and his ability to make/convert putts when money is on the line sets him apart.  And, he does it against great players like Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Padrig Harrington, etc.

I'm ready for a new set of young guns to come along and challenge a 30-something Tiger.  Maybe, Rory McIlroy will pan out and be a challenger for Tiger?  I'd like to see the next group of young talent --- the next Tom Kite, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, or Nick Faldo --- come along and challenge the current cast of greats like Tiger, Phil, Ernie, Vijay, et al.

Peace.

[baddog]

Wow

Nicklaus had several challengers throughout the 1960s and 1970s ... Arnold Palmer and Gary Player were in their prime during the 1960s ... Lee Trevino, Tom Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros, Ray Floyd, Tom Kite, Gary Player, and several others challenged Nicklaus during the 1970s.  Duirng the early to mid-1980s, you saw great players like Ballesteros, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo (Faldo was more of the late 1980s and 1990s), Curtis Strange, Ben Crenshaw, Hale Irwin, and a young gun like Fred Couples.   I hear the argument that Jack Nicklaus faced a deeper field during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s ... maybe, maybe not.  It's hard for me to accept that players in the late 1990s and today, i.e., Vijay Singh, Ernie Els, Phil Mickelson, Geoff Ogilvy, Jose Maria Olazabal, Adam Scott, Retief Goosen, Sergio Garcia, Padrig Harrington, etc. are not as good --- or better --- than what we saw during the 1970s and 1980s.  Jack faced some tough players.  He won against some strong competition.  However, you can make the same argument for Tiger.  Who was playing better than Padrig Harrington last year?

For my money, and I'm a huge fan of Jack Nicklaus, I'd say Tiger Woods is the best to ever pick up a golf club.  His ability to grind it out, his shot making skills, mental toughness, focus, course management, and his ability to make/convert putts when money is on the line sets him apart.  And, he does it against great players like Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els, Padrig Harrington, etc.

I'm ready for a new set of young guns to come along and challenge a 30-something Tiger.  Maybe, Rory McIlroy will pan out and be a challenger for Tiger?  I'd like to see the next group of young talent --- the next Tom Kite, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, or Nick Faldo --- come along and challenge the current cast of greats like Tiger, Phil, Ernie, Vijay, et al.

Peace.

Wow, a thread addressed to me. I feel special.

I think all of us can ''chew'' on this post I quoted by NDN. He states his mind without sarcasm or attitude. I agree with most of what he said, except that I still think Jack is better. Only time will tell how Tiger's competition plays out. Right now, I think it is lagging behind Jack's. However, I like what you said NDN. It makes sense.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

Jack Nicklaus was my all time favorite sport hero.

When he won the Masters in 1986, that was one of my favorite sport memories.

Tiger is an AWEsome golfer, both dominated in their prime.

The big number to me is the number of times Jack was either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in Majors.

I don't think Tiger will reach that cummulative number, but I do think he will pass up the 18 majors.

This week at the Masters will be telling for Tiger.

You also need to keep in mind that Nicklaus had (I believe) four children.

Raising four kids (very successfully) and staying on top of your game has to be harder than ruling a bachelor pad.

Hopefully Tiger will be just as successful a parent as he is a golfer.

Whoever is greater one thing is clear.

BOTH were great role models for the youth of America.

[Guest nostradamus]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

[AggiesAreWe]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

For him to win the US Open with 4 children, 2 pregnant wives, playing from his knees, that's all. ;D

[baddog]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

Yep, Jack playing on one leg couldn't have whipped his competition. He had to be 100% every week. You're learning. Thanks!!

Isn't it funny how much some people take from a post? Just what fits their agenda.

Wow, I forgot. Your opinion is the only one that counts. Anything straying from that line of thought is a ''spin''.

[Guest spinks]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

Yep, Jack playing on one leg couldn't have whipped his competition. He had to be 100% every week. You're learning. Thanks!!

Isn't it funny how much some people take from a post? Just what fits their agenda.

Wow, I forgot. Your opinion is the only one that counts. Anything straying from that line of thought is a ''spin''.

Why do you think that we believe our opinion is the only one that counts??? I think your opinion counts.  I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.  Is that ok?

[baddog]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

Yep, Jack playing on one leg couldn't have whipped his competition. He had to be 100% every week. You're learning. Thanks!!

Isn't it funny how much some people take from a post? Just what fits their agenda.

Wow, I forgot. Your opinion is the only one that counts. Anything straying from that line of thought is a ''spin''.

Why do you think that we believe our opinion is the only one that counts??? I think your opinion counts.  I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.  Is that ok?

Cool. I respect every opinion on here. I just don't want my view referred to as a spin. It makes it seem that mine doesn't matter or that I don't know what I am talking about.

I have watched golf all my life, and I even like Tiger. Maybe I just don't want to see the idols of my day surpassed. That's difficult for anyone, I suspect. I still hold my position on the competitive edge.

[Guest spinks]

Tiger has two children and won the US Open with one child, a pregnant wife, and one leg.......what more do you want?

Yep, Jack playing on one leg couldn't have whipped his competition. He had to be 100% every week. You're learning. Thanks!!

Isn't it funny how much some people take from a post? Just what fits their agenda.

Wow, I forgot. Your opinion is the only one that counts. Anything straying from that line of thought is a ''spin''.

Why do you think that we believe our opinion is the only one that counts??? I think your opinion counts.  I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.  Is that ok?

Cool. I respect every opinion on here. I just don't want my view referred to as a spin. It makes it seem that mine doesn't matter or that I don't know what I am talking about.

I have watched golf all my life, and I even like Tiger. Maybe I just don't want to see the idols of my day surpassed. That's difficult for anyone, I suspect. I still hold my position on the competitive edge.

The other thing that truly makes me believe Tiger is better than Jack is what Tiger did as an amateur.  I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Jack and Tiger but it seems like everything Jack did Tiger is gonna do a little better.  Jack won 2 US Amateurs..........Tiger won 3.  Tiger won 6 straight USGA Amateur events between the US Junior and the US Amateur.  That is unreal and there was not any difference in the competition at the amateur level.  The fact that Tiger has Jack to chase may be what ultimately makes him "better than Jack."  I will to face this thought because there will be someone in my lifetime who rivals Jack and Tiger and I will have a tough time admitting someone is better than Tiger.  However, many believe that willl never happen.......I on the other hand do.  Anytime a sport evolves the way golf has and doubles in size the players are going to get better.  It is just a fact of life.  With the way golf continues to grow there will be someone who betters Tigers records in my opinion.

[Guest nostradamus]

You also need to keep in mind that Nicklaus had (I believe) four children.

Raising four kids (very successfully) and staying on top of your game has to be harder than ruling a bachelor pad.

Hopefully Tiger will be just as successful a parent as he is a golfer.

Baddog,

I wasn't even talking to you.  I was responding to this post and you must have had a tough time seeing the sarcasm in my post?

BTW,

Larry Bird

Boris Becker

and Earl Campbell

were all my idols growing up.....watch this (sense the sarcasm yet):

Kobe, Michael, and Lebron are all better than Bird

Roger Federer is better than Boris Becker

Adrian Peterson and LaDanian Tomlinson are better than Earl Campbell

see.......that wasn't that hard......its part of life.....as with everything else......as the human race evolves athletes have become bigger, faster, stronger, and have more at their disposal than athletes of the past......they should be better.

[24 over par]

My take on this is I personally think that Tiger is the best to have played the game but I won't officially say he is the greatest of all time until he beats Jacks 18 majors.

i aggree

[PhatMack19]

Tiger and Jack in the same group at the Skins Game.  Should be fun to watch.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

[baddog]

Wow, if only Jack were in his prime!!! Jack just doesn't strike the ball as well anymore. Age will do that to you. I'll still try to watch this though.