Antler Restrictions for East Tex

[Buddy09]

So now that its a done deal whats everyones thoughts about antler restrictions for the  rest of East Texas?

Personally I'm glad to see it in Polk Co. where I hunt.

[westend1]

Not a perfect solution, but it will help get some age/balance in the deer herd.

[24 over par]

i havent read it yet is newton co in this and is it state wide

[BearBryant]

Mixed feelings about it. 

[Buddy09]

i havent read it yet is newton co in this and is it state wide

Yes, Newton Co. is included.

The only down side for me is I have two teenagers that hunt off my tags also and with one pull of the trigger I am spike hunting the rest of the season.

[24 over par]

i havent read it yet is newton co in this and is it state wide

Yes, Newton Co. is included.

The only down side for me is I have two teenagers that hunt off my tags also and with one pull of the trigger I am spike hunting the rest of the season.

likewise

[westend1]

i havent read it yet is newton co in this and is it state wide

Yes, Newton Co. is included.

The only down side for me is I have two teenagers that hunt off my tags also and with one pull of the trigger I am spike hunting the rest of the season.

You teenagers have their own license, don't they?

[tvc184]

So now that its a done deal whats everyones thoughts about antler restrictions for the  rest of East Texas?

Personally I'm glad to see it in Polk Co. where I hunt.

I think it should have been done 25 years ago. It is ashame that it needed to be done by law but just looking at the east Texas deer herd explains why it was needed. Killing half year old and one and a half year old deer is nonsense but the standard on many of the area leases.

If someone wants meat, kill a couple of does or save the money from the lease dues and buy a few ribeyes.

[Buddy09]

You teenagers have their own license, don't they?

Yes they do but I'm on a per gun lease where they hunt off my tags.

So now that its a done deal whats everyones thoughts about antler restrictions for the rest of East Texas?

Personally I'm glad to see it in Polk Co. where I hunt.

I think it should have been done 25 years ago. It is ashame that it needed to be done by law but just looking at the east Texas deer herd explains why it was needed. Killing half year old and one and a half year old deer is nonsense but the standard on many of the area leases.

If someone wants meat, kill a couple of does or save the money from the lease dues and buy a few ribeyes.

I agree 100%. On the lease I'm on we have been shooting only mature bucks for twenty years..... for the most part anyway.  But now if one of my kids kill a good buck opening weekend (which is great) Daddy is now spike hunting during his week long vacation during the rut.

[643]

So now that its a done deal whats everyones thoughts about antler restrictions for the  rest of East Texas?

Personally I'm glad to see it in Polk Co. where I hunt.

I think it should have been done 25 years ago. It is ashame that it needed to be done by law but just looking at the east Texas deer herd explains why it was needed. Killing half year old and one and a half year old deer is nonsense but the standard on many of the area leases.

If someone wants meat, kill a couple of does or save the money from the lease dues and buy a few ribeyes.

EXACTLY, I got off a very good lease with tremendous potential cuz the board wanted to raise does>pure and simple, with all the killing going on in the past yrs some clubs will NO DOUGHT have a tough job getting any that meet or pass the min requirement for at least a cpl of yrs...WW

[tvc184]

Here is part of my opinion on deer hunting.

When you shoot a deer, you are either hunting for horns or hunting for meat. Does definitely need to be killed and they are overpopulating a lot of areas, especially in east Texas. If someone is dropping the hammer simply for meat, then kill does. If you are hunting for horns, why would you kill a deer with tiny horns? Certainly people aren't going to mount the head of a buck with a small rack. I hunt on a 970-ish acre lease in east Texas. I think our members have killed something like 65 does on that small lease in the last four years. We have seem more and killed bigger bucks than we have ever seen on this lease since we have been managing it more closely by letting the bucks grow and taking out all of the does. We are sure getting a lot of meat without having to kill baby bucks.

So kill does if you want meat (or even if you don't want meat-give it away) and let the bucks grow up.

Now let the baby killers start flaming me.  ;D

[westend1]

You teenagers have their own license, don't they?

Yes they do but I'm on a per gun lease where they hunt off my tags.

So now that its a done deal whats everyones thoughts about antler restrictions for the rest of East Texas?

Personally I'm glad to see it in Polk Co. where I hunt.

I think it should have been done 25 years ago. It is ashame that it needed to be done by law but just looking at the east Texas deer herd explains why it was needed. Killing half year old and one and a half year old deer is nonsense but the standard on many of the area leases.

If someone wants meat, kill a couple of does or save the money from the lease dues and buy a few ribeyes.

I agree 100%. On the lease I'm on we have been shooting only mature bucks for twenty years..... for the most part anyway.  But now if one of my kids kill a good buck opening weekend (which is great) Daddy is now spike hunting during his week long vacation during the rut.

So Buddy,  I guess this is a lease issue.  Your lease is only going to allow one mature buck and one spike?  Our lease allows two bucks per family.  If my son kills a good one, I still have that opportunity, if I understand the new law correctly.  I just have to make sure my son has a license and uses his own tag, right?

[tvc184]

So Buddy,  I guess this is a lease issue.  Your lease is only going to allow one mature buck and one spike?   Our lease allows two bucks per family.  If my son kills a good one, I still have that opportunity, if I understand the new law correctly.   I just have to make sure my son has a license and uses his own tag, right?

Yep. Each hunting license in those counties can kill one mature buck and one spike. Anything else is a lease restriction. It seems like leases that allowed two mature deer per gun/membership would still allow such but it would have to be from another family member's tag. It is the same number of deer so I don't see where it hurts the "per gun" rule. Each lease will have to sort that out.

[BearBryant]

So is it 13" inside or outside spread? 

[tvc184]

So is it 13" inside or outside spread? 

Inside at the widest point.

[643]

So is it 13" inside or outside spread? 

Normally speaking, if they easily clear the ears your looking at a 13+ rack. My dad is 83 born in Saratoga, been hunting ALL his life and raised to kill ONLY bucks. He's always told me if you don't shoot it they will, recently he's come around to my way of thinking, believe me I've tried everything. I got to the point of not telling him of the deer I saw and this was something he taught me 40+ yrs back when around a group of men I hunted with. I had to resort to using my grandson along with his other 2 greatgrandsons who all 3 will looking for their first buck this yr, I know its low but you got to do what you got to do. I told him it sure would be nice if the boys had a chance at a 3 1/2+ y/o buck for their first, when I said that I could see him change, from then on it was does only for guest. I do understand the problem of families with kids and the lease restrictions, it for sure WOULD have been a problem with me if I didn't have several options when my 2 were young but I did try my best to teach them good management = better deer...WW 

[bronco1]

Buck bag limit: 2,

to include no more than one with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. A legal buck deer is a deer having at least one unbranched antler, or an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. The inside spread requirement does not apply to any buck having an unbranched antler. These provisions do not apply on properties for which Level 2 or Level 3 MLDPs have been issued.

[BearBryant]

LOL I hope that the game wardens have  plastic tape measures. 

[tvc184]

I can see a lot of leases are now going to look at implementing MLD programs so they can get away from those regs. That will be okay also because it will cause the lease to be managed the way they should have been to begin with. When people realize that a correctly run MLD level III can gun hunt during archery season, that may tip the scale also.

[643]

I can see a lot of leases are now going to look at implementing MLD programs so they can get away from those regs. That will be okay also because it will cause the lease to be managed the way they should have been to begin with. When people realize that a correctly run MLD level III can gun hunt during archery season, that may tip the scale also.

The bad thing about going to MLD 3 is >if< a timber co owns the land they will keep an eye on your yearly harvest reports to TPW and when you have things looking better they WILL 'blue chip' the lease causing it to go up by 2-4$ per acre. If you were to look at the leases who are 'blue chipped' you will see they were level 3 for a cpl of yrs prior to blue chipping...BTW I tried to post a pic I took of a 1 1/2 yo forked horn buck that was broke off making it a legal buck per antler restr>>>this was a buck that the law was intended to protect but now legal using a loophole in the law...

[txstar]

I can appreciate TPW's attempt to regulate what deer get harvested, but antler restrictions alone are not the total answer.  If you want to grow bigger racks, you must harvest 4+ year old deer who do not meet the criteria, if you allow them to breed, you will get more narrow small racks.  You have to cull out the 4+ year old deer that you do not want breeding.  There are a number of issues other than merely the width of a rack in determining what deer to take in an effort to grow deer with better racks.  The last study I read that about 90+% of the deer harvested in East Texas are approximately 2.5 years old.  That amazes me that people would harvest a 2.5 year old deer.  You have got to let them grow up and you have to be skilled enough to know when to cull a deer at 4.5-5.5 or let it breed and grow.  I think the antler restriction alone is not the answer.  Hunters need long hours of stand/blind time, hours of video watching and reading about how to age deer.  I know there are huge deer in East Texas but they are few and far between...but if hunters discipline themselves to take the correct deer, the results wil begin to show in a few years.  South Texas didn't just all of a sudden get good racks...they've been managing for almost 40 years and the results are there  and have been for 3 decades.  Then again, it is tough to let deer walk when you are paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to harvest a deer. 

[tvc184]

I can appreciate TPW's attempt to regulate what deer get harvested, but antler restrictions alone are not the total answer.  If you want to grow bigger racks, you must harvest 4+ year old deer who do not meet the criteria, if you allow them to breed, you will get more narrow small racks.  You have to cull out the 4+ year old deer that you do not want breeding.  There are a number of issues other than merely the width of a rack in determining what deer to take in an effort to grow deer with better racks.  The last study I read that about 90+% of the deer harvested in East Texas are approximately 2.5 years old.  That amazes me that people would harvest a 2.5 year old deer.  You have got to let them grow up and you have to be skilled enough to know when to cull a deer at 4.5-5.5 or let it breed and grow.  I think the antler restriction alone is not the answer.  Hunters need long hours of stand/blind time, hours of video watching and reading about how to age deer.  I know there are huge deer in East Texas but they are few and far between...but if hunters discipline themselves to take the correct deer, the results wil begin to show in a few years.  South Texas didn't just all of a sudden get good racks...they've been managing for almost 40 years and the results are there  and have been for 3 decades.  Then again, it is tough to let deer walk when you are paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to harvest a deer. 

I have seen studies that 90% 2.5 years old OR LESS with a majority being 1.5 years old.

Antler restrictions should not even have to have been put into place. The problem is that it was needed. It is not a catch all answer and there are limitations to it. The counties where it has been put into place have shown that it is way better than no anter restrictions.

You are totally correct about aging deer. The only problem with that solution is that it is hard to legislate intelligence. I saw a guy at a south Texas bowhunting only day lease kill a whitetail that had about a 10" rack and weighed about 110 pounds. He swore that it was a 3.5 year old deer which was the lease rules for killing without a penalty. Not sure how he mistook a 1.5 year old buck with a 3.5 year old deer but he did. Obviously horns aren't the only indicator of age but at least it is something that can be easily visible when you compare the horns to the ears.

While the restrictions are far from perfect, they are better than letting people continue to kill year and a half old deer.

[bignazty]

>:(

[T-daddy]

My 9 yr old killed his first deer last year it was a 5 point that was aged at 6.5.  He would not have been leagal this year cause of the spread rule but we could tell in the stand he was a cull buck...my biggest complaint is we will now be allowing the cull bucks to bread our doe..People want to compare south tx to east tx quess what the truth of the matter is south tx has better minerals in the dirt than east tx, just look at the difference in soil color while driving from here to there. better minerals = bigger deer and racks.  Im glad they made an attempt but they need to leave an out like if your caught with a buck with less than a 13 inch spread then he better be at least 5 yrs old if not here is your ticket (fine) that is what leases are doing..

[tvc184]

[quote name="T-daddy" post="697231" timestamp="1257375067"]
My 9 yr old killed his first deer last year it was a 5 point that was aged at 6.5.  He would not have been leagal this year cause of the spread rule but we could tell in the stand he was a cull buck...my biggest complaint is we will now be allowing the cull bucks to bread our doe..People want to compare south tx to east tx quess what the truth of the matter is south tx has better minerals in the dirt than east tx, just look at the difference in soil color while driving from here to there. better minerals = bigger deer and racks.  Im glad they made an attempt but they need to leave an out like if your caught with a buck with less than a 13 inch spread then he better be at least 5 yrs old if not here is your ticket (fine) that is what leases are doing..
[/quote]

I can't disagree with the argument about less than 13" bucks but with the east Texas habit of killing them at 1.5 years old, how do we know what is breeding with the does anyway. It is not like there is a lot of management going on in east Texas.

I know that some leases do some good managing but for everyone that does, there are probably 5 or more that kill everything that moves. Even worse is the leases that still exist that kill every bucks that is foolish enough to peep out from behind a bush but let all of the does walk.

I wish they would go by aging the deer and/or a main beam length in addition to the 13" spread. The problem with that is, the hunters that will have a hard time even seeing what it outside the ears in order to get to the magical 13". I think the current new AR's are just the easy way out. I also think that given a chance, these AR will work. Not perfect but it will work.