USA vs Brazil

[cardinalcc]

I think that could have just signaled game over.

[Newcastle]

speechless....just speechless

[adminbaberuth]

i'm going back to the stros, i'm bad luck.

[Newcastle]

passing now looks like it did the first two games  CRAPPY

[Newcastle]

well here are my thoughts

the game is cruel

but, it took a miracle to get us past the first round

we beat spain to get to the final

and we had a two goal lead on brazil

but this is a game that we SHOULD have won

now I would have never guessed that we would be leading 2-0 at half

there was a goal for brazil did not count that should have

Bradley and company better find some depth SOON

[bullets13]

this one was a heartbreaker... the goal 38 seconds into the 2nd half killed us!  still, a 3-2 loss to a full brazil squad is a VERY respectable result, even if we blew that lead. 

[Terrier]

That was a huge collapse. Brazil controlled the ball the whole second half and we were helpless to do anything about it. We have our third tier athletes competing against the best from the other countries. All our best athletes play in the NFL or NBA. If guys like Lebron, Adrian Peterson, Troy Polamalu, Larry Fitzgerald played soccer we would kick their butts. Until that happens we will never be truly competitive with the rest of the World.

[Guest setxgal]

Bummer!!! 

[Newcastle]

no offense terrier but you have stated athletes that are dominant in one sport could be should be dominant in other sports...my example i give you is michael jordan-great basketball-bad baseball

different sports require different skills and you calling the US team third tier athletes....well we all have our opinions

[Terrier]

no offense terrier but you have stated athletes that are dominant in one sport could be should be dominant in other sports...my example i give you is michael jordan-great basketball-bad baseball

different sports require different skills and you calling the US team third tier athletes....well we all have our opinions

No offense taken. I didn't mean third rate or that they are not good athletes. The point is they are not the best athletes in the USA. I am not a soccer fan. But I watched that match today and it was obvious to me that the Brazilians were stronger and faster than our guys. If our strongest and fastest athletes grew up playing soccer like the rest of the world we would dominate the sport.

[bullets13]

no offense terrier but you have stated athletes that are dominant in one sport could be should be dominant in other sports...my example i give you is michael jordan-great basketball-bad baseball

different sports require different skills and you calling the US team third tier athletes....well we all have our opinions

No offense taken. I didn't mean third rate or that they are not good athletes. The point is they are not the best athletes in the USA. I am not a soccer fan. But I watched that match today and it was obvious to me that the Brazilians were stronger and faster than our guys. If our strongest and fastest athletes grew up playing soccer like the rest of the world we would dominate the sport.

it has nothing to do with the quality of athletes on the field.  the difference is that maybe 10% of kids in the US play more than a year or two of soccer growing up (at least those that are now old enough to play for our national team), while in brazil it's probably more like 85%.  that doesn't mean that the athletes are any better, but it definitely gives them an advantage when they have infinitely more players to choose from to find the most talented.  also, the massive popularity of the sport in brazil ensures that every child growing up who plays is going to be playing in a much more competitive atmosphere.  i'd wager that their youth soccer leagues are infinitely more advanced than the leagues that the vast majority of our kids grow up playing in.  on the flip side, our youth basketball leagues are far more advanced from theirs, and we would pound them at any level if we played them.  that being said, we're slowly catching up.  the young players that are coming up are for the most part considerably more talented than the players we had 10-15 years ago.  a 2-0 win over spain to make it to a FIFA tourney final is a pretty clear indication of this.

[Terrier]

It is about the quality of the athletes on the field. Almost every ball that was contested on the field yesterday was won by Brazil. The whole second half of that match was played on the US side of the field. When Brazil decided to take over that game they did. And it was because they had bigger, faster, stronger guys. Imagine if our players had NFL size and speed along with soccer skills that they learned growing up with the game. We would not be overmatched physically like we are now against the elite teams like Brazil. The win over Spain was great. But if we played them 10 times in a row how many would we win?

[bullets13]

it had nothing to do with bigger, faster, stronger.  it had everything to do with the gap in class.  they won balls because they were fresh, and perfectly positioned.  all of the 50/50 balls were us desperately clearing the ball, our forwards trying to run onto it, and their defense standing stationary waiting on it.  advantage, defense.  they weren't open because they were faster, but because they would string 10 perfect passes together until somebody ended up with the ball in space.  this led to us chasing the entire game, which in the end wore us out, and THEN we were slower.  that had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that our guys had to run twice as much as they did throughout the game.  their advantage was nothing to do with athleticism, and everything to do with skill. 

[Terrier]

The advantage in skill that Brazil had was apparent. But their advantage in speed was too. There were multiple times during the game where a Brazilian player ran by one of our defenders that was trying to stay with them one on one and couldn't. Almost every time the ball was in the air one of the players from Brazil out jumped one of our guys for the ball. That is an advantage in athleticism. But that's the problem with soccer fans they can't objectively look at it and admit that we are at a disadvantage athletically. The best athletes from these other countries play soccer. That is not the case in the USA. Our best athletes play American football and basketball. You are also seeing a slow erosion of our advantage in baseball too because our best athletes are not playing that sport either.

[bullets13]

did you play soccer?  i'm not saying this condescendingly, i'm just asking.  the fact of the matter is, if one team is having to run twice as much, it's not going to take long before the team who's chasing is going to begin getting beaten one on one, outjumped for headers, etc.  If you take the same two sets of athletes, and switch the roles, with the US working the ball perfectly and Brazil chasing, you would see the same results, but with Brazil losing one on ones and headers.  also, we have a BIG team when it comes to soccer.

Altidore, Jozy F 6-1 175

Bocanegra, Carlos D 6-0 170

Bradley, Michael M 6-2 175

Dempsey, Clint F 6-1 170

Edu, Maurice M 6-0 170

Howard, Tim GK 6-3 210

Onyewu, Oguchi D 6-4 210

Spector, Jonathan D 6-0 180

Guzan, Brad GK 6-4 210

I can only think of about five players throughout the world who have achieved any notable success as soccer players who were taller than 6'5'', so size is not that important, and our team is plenty quick.

[Terrier]

No, I did not play soccer. But I don't think you have to have played to see that Brazil's team was more athletic than ours. You will probably always disagree with me on that. But the one thing that is indisputable is that our best athletes do not play soccer. We can argue whether or not that makes a difference. I believe it does. The more athletically gifted you are gives you a better chance at playing at an elite level no matter your sport of choice. How many of those guys you listed American born?

[bullets13]

as far as i know, all of them were born in America.  it's possible that Onyewu or Edu weren't, though. 

[Terrier]

Another thing that I think holding us back is the attitude about winning. We seem to be happy with these "moral victories". Like yesterday. I heard the commentators say we should feel good about winning the first half against a team like Brazil. We had a 2-0 lead and completely collapsed in the second half. Do you think the Brazilians would be saying that if it were reversed? I bet they would be calling for somebody's head.

[Bon_Mot]

Against my better judgement I'm gonna jump in this debate...

No one - and I mean no one - who is considered a top class soccer player looks like Lebron James, Larry Fitzgerald, et al.  And to compare the Brazillian Selecao to any other national team, much less the US, isn't fair.  They have skill, speed, and creativity.

The best athletes from these other countries play soccer.

Brazil: Yes. That's all they do there.  Futbol & Carnivale.  But I think you hugely understimate the worldwide popularity of sports like Rugby and Cricket along with the rising popularity of basketball and baseball.  Check out any NBA roster or any MLB line up.  Are those guys not some of "the best athletes" from those countries?  Imagine how good the German soccer team would be with Dirk up front heading in crosses.  Or how good could Argentina be with Ginobli in the midfield.

We seem to be happy with these "moral victories".

Who's we first of all?  Those were not tears of complacency from Clint Dempsey.  Are we a bunch of losers because we didn't beat Brazil? NO.  I think most USMNT fans are happy with the result of the tournament but not the final game.

I bet they would be calling for somebody's head.

Check out the US News & Analysis forum on BigSoccer.  The mods on there are even threatening to ban people who hi-jack threads with "Fire Bradley Now" posts.

The win over Spain was great. But if we played them 10 times in a row how many would we win?

:  The Miracle on Ice...  Villanova over Georgetown...  Buster Douglas...  Shall I go on?  There is a reason why games are not played on paper.

I think a major factor in the loss was fatigue.  Brazil used every field player on their 23 man roster over the course of the previous four games.  On the other hand, in addition to playing almost 90 minutes with 10 men, the US only used 16.  Brazil is notorious for sending their B-Team to tournaments...and winning.  The Brazillian bench is better than the US.  (I can't believe I just typed that.  )   And don't forget that Ronaldino didn't even go.  Our legs were spent and it showed.

as far as i know, all of them were born in America.  it's possible that Onyewu or Edu weren't, though.  

Edu is a Cali guy and Gooch is from Virginia.

[Gabe]

I was mildly interested in the outcome of this match. I wish I was into soccer but I won't lie and ever say I am. It's simply not our sport and that is not a terrible thing. We don't have to own everything in the world.

[dualdellortos]

as far as i know, all of them were born in America.  it's possible that Onyewu or Edu weren't, though. 

Dempsey is a foreigner. He's from Nacogdoches.......  ;D

[Terrier]

Against my better judgement I'm gonna jump in this debate...

No one - and I mean no one - who is considered a top class soccer player looks like Lebron James, Larry Fitzgerald, et al.  And to compare the Brazillian Selecao to any other national team, much less the US, isn't fair.  They have skill, speed, and creativity.

The best athletes from these other countries play soccer.

Brazil: Yes. That's all they do there.  Futbol & Carnivale.  But I think you hugely understimate the worldwide popularity of sports like Rugby and Cricket along with the rising popularity of basketball and baseball.  Check out any NBA roster or any MLB line up.  Are those guys not some of "the best athletes" from those countries?  Imagine how good the German soccer team would be with Dirk up front heading in crosses.  Or how good could Argentina be with Ginobli in the midfield.

We seem to be happy with these "moral victories".

Who's we first of all?  Those were not tears of complacency from Clint Dempsey.  Are we a bunch of losers because we didn't beat Brazil? NO.  I think most USMNT fans are happy with the result of the tournament but not the final game.

I bet they would be calling for somebody's head.

Check out the US News & Analysis forum on BigSoccer.  The mods on there are even threatening to ban people who hi-jack threads with "Fire Bradley Now" posts.

The win over Spain was great. But if we played them 10 times in a row how many would we win?

:  The Miracle on Ice...  Villanova over Georgetown...  Buster Douglas...  Shall I go on?  There is a reason why games are not played on paper.

I think a major factor in the loss was fatigue.  Brazil used every field player on their 23 man roster over the course of the previous four games.  On the other hand, in addition to playing almost 90 minutes with 10 men, the US only used 16.  Brazil is notorious for sending their B-Team to tournaments...and winning.  The Brazillian bench is better than the US.  (I can't believe I just typed that.  )   And don't forget that Ronaldino didn't even go.  Our legs were spent and it showed.

I think you have only reinforced my points. I have a hard time believing that if we had guys with NFL speed (4.2-4.4 40 yard dash),strength and size that we wouldn't do better. I wasn't saying the team is a bunch of losers. The point is the prevailing attitude is not expecting to win. But happy with playing well. And I guess with the last point you are saying the only way we can beat the top teams is with a miracle. If our guys were tired than that's a coaching problem or the coach knows he doesn't have enough talent to use his whole bench.

[bullets13]

this perception that people who do not play soccer have about the quality of athletes that play soccer frustrates me to no end.  we've had this debate on another thread already, but:

a soccer player goes for 90 minutes.  each team gets three subs, and that's it.  once you've been subbed, you may not return to the field.  8 players from each team NEVER come off the field.

a soccer player often runs over 5 miles in a 90 minute game, mostly in sprints.

soccer is a much more physical sport than people give it credit for being.

soccer takes more skill than any of the big three sports.  try to go out and use your feet to accurately kick a soccer ball 40 yards.  i know a lot of non-athletic, non-basketball players who can hit a three, or non-football players who can catch a pass, or non-baseball players that can make contact with a decent fastball.

unlike the big three sports, soccer cannot be dominated by someone simply because they are fast, or tall, or big.  in certain cases those attributes help, but being a good athlete and having actual talent are much more important.  while the most talented players prevail in these other sports, there are always roles for incomplete players based simply on a single attribute.

[cardinalcc]

I have a great deal respect for the soccer players. To be able to run for that long and get hit/tackled while doing it, and be able to pass/shoot is awesome. They may not have 4.2-4.4 speed, but neither does anybody else after running around for 75 mins. I would love to see these 4.4 guys line up and run 40 after 40 for an hour and a half with no water breaks. The U.S. is starting to make progress towards being one of the better teams in the world. Things do not just happen overnight. I'm already looking forward to the World Cup.

[MMSLB]

Do you really believe you just have to be big, tall or fast to dominate the other sports. To many examples to prove that wrong.