TORRES IS READY TO SHUT MAYWEATHER UP

[UT#1]

yes i am fully aware of how good mayweather is are you aware of how good torres is?? his official pro record i believe is 40-1 thats not including the rumored other 30-40 unsanctioned bouts in brazil and other places and of those 40 wins in his official record he has fought several guys above his weight class....will this fight ever happen? probably not so theres not a whole lot of sense arguing..... and Buc2010 nobody here is your homey im guessing your still in highschool so instead of spending all your time on here why dont you go play some sports or something... i might not be an expert but i am VERY VERY knowledgable about some boxing and most MMA... i also like how you postded it 4 times to get your point across

[Bucof2010]

yes i am fully aware of how good mayweather is are you aware of how good torres is?? his official pro record i believe is 40-1 thats not including the rumored other 30-40 unsanctioned bouts in brazil and other places and of those 40 wins in his official record he has fought several guys above his weight class....will this fight ever happen? probably not so theres not a whole lot of sense arguing..... and Buc2010 nobody here is your homey im guessing your still in highschool so instead of spending all your time on here why dont you go play some sports or something... i might not be an expert but i am VERY VERY knowledgable about some boxing and most MMA... i also like how you postded it 4 times to get your point across

I posted 4 times because my phone messed up and I work 50 hr weeks I'm guessing that's more than you can say.

[JoshD]

whether or not you think the actual act of boxing is tougher than mma is irrelevant because it's still harder to become more successful in boxing due to the fact that boxing has more competitors and a larger talent pool.  

Marcus Davis has definitely had waaay more success in mma than he had when he was a pro boxer before he was an mma fighter.

[Guest baseball25]

thank you josh D, I mean why do you see everyone trying mma because its easier than boxing, you can't be a successful boxer starting when your 18 its to hard, now if your 18 and doing mma you will have a better shot at being successful, thats why you see alot of these guys that are in mma now saying they only been doing it for 3 yrs or so, no way in hell you become a great boxer in 3 yrs..

[Guest baseball25]

Basically you could tell he couldn't hack it in boxing because the sport is that tough so he starts doing mma and gets really serious about it in 2005, so now its 2009  and he's a pretty good MMA fighter that should show you right there whats the hardest sport to do and become successful at.

Marcus began boxing at 14, turning pro at the age of 19 with a second round TKO of Luis Guzman in April 1993. He compiled a professional record of 17-1-2 over the next seven years on the New England circuit. In his last fight as a boxer, he suffered a TKO loss to 34 year old Ed Bryant which led him to reconsider his future as a successful boxer [2]. He then became excited with the challenge of mixed martial arts, much to the bemusement of his peers. Considered on the cusp of the big-time as the number one ranked super middleweight in New England before losing to Ed Bryant, he retired from boxing after the TKO loss in October 2000.

Marcus Davis entered professional MMA on August 22, 2003 with a first round TKO of Shaun Gay. Though later describing himself as "one-dimensional", he put together a 3-2 pro MMA record.

In 2005, Marcus was a contestant on The Ultimate Fighter 2. Coming in with reputed boxing skills, he picked Joe Stevenson in episode four in what proved to be a mismatch, as Davis was quickly taken down by the eventual winner and submitted. He was later brought back in episode 10 to cover for Jason Von Flue, who suffered a cut on his forehead in practice, though Von Flue's cut was healed enough in time to fight. Marcus fought on the undercard of the finale, where he lost to Melvin Guillard.

Following the series, Davis strongly considered retirement but recuperated from a shoulder injury picked up against Joe Stevenson and went back to MMA training. He has subsequently bounced back with 11 wins, including a triumphant return to the UFC at Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3: The Final Chapter. He now considers himself a mixed martial artist and not a boxer fighting in MMA.

In Davis' fight against Paul Taylor at UFC 75 in London, England[6] he was knocked down by a kick to the neck, but was able to recover, gain a dominant position, and secure an armbar as Taylor desperately scrambled to regain control. Marcus won Fight of the night as well as submission of the night for that fight. For earning the submission and fight of the night awards, he was awarded $80,000 in bonuses. His next fight was a KO win against Jess Liaudin at UFC 80 in Newcastle, England.

Marcus Davis lost against Mike Swick at UFC 85 by unanimous decision, ending his six-fight undefeated streak in the octagon and eleven-fight winning streak in MMA. He got back to winning ways with a submission victory over England's Paul Kelly at UFC 89.

Davis' fought Chris Lytle at UFC 93 on January 17, 2009. Both fighters are former boxers and had discussed a potential fight in their futures since early 2008.[7] Lytle called out Davis at UFC 89. He suggested that the fight take place in Ireland, where Davis had garned a substantial following due to his emphasis on his Irish roots. Leading up to the event, both fighters promised to stand and trade blows for the entire fight, rather than engage in grappling. Lytle managed to stun Davis several times, but Davis used superior footwork, counterpunching, and kicks to win a split decision.[8]. The bout shared Fight of the Night honors with the Coleman/Rua co-main event, earning Davis a $40,000 bonus

[Guest baseball25]

now Chris lytle was a boxer and he turn to MMA, because its  a much easier sport to get better at,

37-17-4- MMA record

Boxing Record - 13 Wins (7 knockouts, 6 decisions), 1 Loss (1 decision), 1 Draw- He fought a bunch of nobodys and could never become successful in boxing so he turns to MMA

In 2006, Lytle was a contestant on The Ultimate Fighter 4 on Spike, where he defeated Pete Spratt and Din Thomas in exhibition bouts to proceed to the welterweight finale. On November 11, Matt Serra defeated Lytle by split decision in The Ultimate Fighter 4 Finale. Lytle was the more active fighter on the feet, with Serra tying up and using foot stomps until he got takedowns, at which time he became the more active fighter, with Lytle holding guard and seemingly waiting for the referee to stand the fight up. Two judges scored the bout 30-27 for Serra, and one judge scored the fight 30-27 for Lytle, but despite the scores the match was very close. He lost to former UFC Welterweight Champion Matt Hughes on March 3 at UFC 68 in Columbus, Ohio via unanimous decision.

[Guest baseball25]

so with Mayweather Athletic ability which is way better than Davis and Lytle, and his Boxing skills are 100 times better, so you give him 3 yrs of MMA training he would do pretty dang good, I mean its commons sense what sport is the hardest, just deal with it.I mean when lytle and davis boxed they fought guys that were horrible, I  mean you can go to BOXRec.com and look who they fought lol it was bad lol, so they realize they can't box so what sport do they turn too MMA because they realize they can be more successful in this sport and its a easier sport to get better at.

[Guest baseball25]

The transition to mma is a lot easier than the transition from mma to boxing.

[silentassasin]

baseball have you ever stopped to think that maybe more kids and adults for that matter are trying MMA training due to the extreme rise in popularity and not because it is an easier sport.

baseball I know that this may seem hard to comprehend but lets do a little math today shall we. Using your 400 punches statement. A boxing match that goes the distance is 10 three minute rounds or 30 minutes of boxing. MMA only goes to the 25 minute mark in championship matches while the others are a mere 15 minutes long. I am not saying that an MMA fighter would throw 500 punches if the fights were longer but the number would definitely be higher than it is. Plus you also have to figure in leg kicks and knee strikes also rising in total number thrown.

Bottom line is that very few of us on this forum have said MMA is better or harder but you continue to keep banging the drum about boxing being tougher and using very weak examples to prove it. Chris Lytle and Marcus Davis were former boxers who found better success in MMA, fact. Noone denies that. But you what do you think your opinion would be if someone like a GSP who is in the prime of health and relatively young enough to step away from MMA and train straight boxing. I say that he would be as successful as you say Mayweather would be in MMA. I don't deny Mayweather is a bad dude in the ring, guy has speed in his hands that most MMA guys would never be able to handle in a straight striking contest. But how hard and fast would he be punching if he got taken to the ground and had someone skilled in submissions working a kimura on his arm, or if he had to spend considerable strength pulling off a rear naked choke that someone had locked in. My thought would be that he would drop down in some of the speed and power from before due to fatigue.

I believe Mayweather would be successful if he fought MMA, not because it is easier but because he is a dedicated fighter who would train his butt off to be the best as he did in boxing. Bottom line is that you will continue to bang the same drum as you have been so I am choosing to spend my time on different threads after I post this. Call it agree to disagree.

[Guest baseball25]

lets go box in beaumont for 3 straight months and then lets go train MMA for 3 months and you will see which one is harder and which one you would be more successful at and its a no brainer...so are you up for it.

[LUFAN]

I think baseball has taken to many shots to the head...

[Guest baseball25]

I'm just proving I'm right

[UT#1]

i really dont think you can prove that your right in this conversation, by using the word harder your voicing an opinion. One of the guys on my MMA team fought a Pro boxer (9-0) awhile back and what i saw was he had great hand speed and cardio but when he got hit with those 4.5 ounce gloves he just backed up and took a beating.. ive seen 1st hand some Pro Boxers get absolutely destroyed in an AMATEUR MMA fight i dont think however there are too many pro MMA fighters that would lose to an amateur boxer.....  but yeh im up for it baseball how much do you weigh and how old are you?

[venom33]

ok.... since this thread has now resulted in a few matches being scheduled, if its ok with everyone silent and i will be the ringside commentators and i promise i wont mention how great fedor is.... :'(

[JoshD]

The talent pool in boxing is deeper than in MMA the elite amateur boxers would DESTROY Pro MMA guys in boxing.  You're 100% wrong UT #1.

The boxing in MMA isn't on a very high level - I'm not bashing MMA guys as I am a fan of both sports. They have to be well-rounded so it doesn't make sense for them to concentrate solely on boxing.  But to say that a pro mma fighter wouldn't lose to an amateur boxer is completely false. I am friends with both mma fighters and boxers and from what I've heard pro mma fighters get schooled in the gym by amateur boxers.   Even a UFC fighter would lose to a lot of the elite amateur fighters of the same weight out there in boxing, and it wouldnt even be close!

The two sports are apples to oranges, it doesnt make sense to argue over who would win.

But as far as which one is successful to become #1 at, definitely boxing at least for the time being due to more competitors and a larger talent pool. Maybe it will change in 20-30 years but not at the moment in my opinion it's definitely harder to make it in boxing.

[UT#1]

lol sounds good venom... and 100% wrong there joshd?? idk about that considering a lot of mma fighters started as boxers idk how they would get schooled by ammy boxers but anyways this topic just about been played out

[silentassasin]

Just when I think that I am out they pull me back in!!!

Always a good thing to throw in a Godfather reference if you can.

baseball, as I have said before I have been hit with both kinds of gloves, and did not enjoy it so therefore I will be respectfully saying no to your invitation to train and then pound on you!! LOL.

I have however trained as a freestyle wrestler, nothing big as I never did it in college because wasn't good enough. So just in high school and a little bit on a club team later on as an adult. I can not tell you what it is like to train as a boxer or for that matter as a true MMA fighter. But based on what the guys that I know that have done both or just one of the two I know that you are still banging the same drum. Boxing is not harder or better or whatever. UT is right, you are stating an opinion, as I am. Even if we did train and I somehow believed after doing both it would still be an opinion, not a fact.

It is the same arguement the football only guys would use on me and my wrestler friends about how football ( a great sport for which I love and played as well, was even much better at it than wrestling) was harder than what we did. We disagreed obviously. So pretty much any football guy that showed up and went through our workouts got smoked, not because we were better athletes or it is a "harder" sport but because it was completely different to them than what they were used to pushing their bodies for. Doing wall sits while two guys are wrestling a three minute match is a lot harder than it sounds especially when you are the heavyweight class and the matches start with the 105 and 109 pound guys starting.

Boxing is a great sport but whether or not MMA is better or harder is irrelevant. MMA is more popular right now and you can believe it is for the reasons you state and i disagree. I still believe that because of the popularity and exposure it is getting on cable and satelite as well as now ESPN and other bigger channels starting to show some love to MMA more and more people are wanting to get involved in it. It is the same reason why baseball had such a huge following, and still does obviously, at first. Kids grew up listening to the teams play and seeing the players as icons and larger than life heroes. The MMA guys are the same to this generation, it is just that guys like me who are alot older than the kids of today are also fans.

I don't remember who said it but the statement about the boxing skill in boxing being far greater than MMA, well DUH! You just figured that out genius? Of course the boxing skill is greater in a sport called BOXING! That is also why boxers are probably not very good at Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and if taken down would have a very hard time defending themselves. Most boxers I know don't train how to throw a punch from the ground lying in someone's guard. Could they figure it out, sure eventually just like I have said that a good MMA guys the level of GSP or Silva if they trained straight boxing would become very good at it.

Why can't we all just admit that boxing is great, not as great as it used to be ( another opinion I realize ) but that MMA is also a great sport, and not a fad that will be going away soon as Buc stated between shifts at his 50 hour a week job. And while we are at it why don't we try and grow up and just say both sports have a lot to offer the fighters as well as the fans of the sports and leave it at that, instead of acting like Mayweather or any other fighter who is dogging out the other sport in order to get publicity.

Just a thought fellas.

[Guest baseball25]

You know boxing has had better pview numbers in the last couple of years and now this year there will be mayweather vs marquez, Cotto vs pacman, and we already had hatton vs pacman that did huge numbers over  850,000 this year and cotto vs pacman will do more than that, so I am tired of all the boxing is dead talk if your a real boxing fan you know its not dead, just wait untill mayweather vs pacman or cotto vs mayweather is done it will be over a million buys and if its mayweather vs pacman it could be the biggest event ever...

by Tony Montana… What we get told often is boxing is dying being drowned out by MMA and we get articles posted daily full of opinions without any facts so I have decided to confront this debate head on with facts.

I will compare PPV numbers from 2007 of the biggest fights in the Western Hemisphere and the UFC PPV numbers alike and we can finally get to the truth.

I will start with the UFC first:

UFC 67 - Silva v. Lutter - 400,000

UFC 68 - Slyvia v. Couture - 540,000

UFC 69 - St. Pierre v. Serra - 400,000

UFC 71 - Liddell v. Jackson II - 675,000

UFC 72 - Franklin v. Okami - 200,000

UFC 73 - Ortiz v. Evans - 425,000

UFC 74 - Couture v. Gonzaga - 520,000

UFC 76 - Liddell v. Jardine - 475,000

UFC 77 - Franklin v. Silva II - 325,000

UFC 78 - Evans v. Bisbing - 325,000

UFC 79 - Liddell v. Silva - 600,000

UFC 70 and UFC 75 were Spike events so those are exempt from the list.

2007 PPV numbers for UFC measure in at 4,885,000. Not far from five million.

Boxing is a lot harder to measure since there are so many big fights taking place all over the planet so instead of mentioning every big bout in the world I’m going to mention just enough bouts to eclipse the UFC numbers.

I may end up missing a dozen or so big fights or maybe even 60 to 70% of the big sellers but I’m not chronicling all the big fights just enough to put boxing ahead of the UFC since we are trying to work out who is winning the PPV game.

Now onto 2007 calendar year for boxing:

Pacman vs Barrera - 350,000

Cotto vs Mosley - 400,000

Mayweather vs De La Hoya - 2,500,000

Mayweather vs Hatton - 1,500,000

Cotto vs Judah - 225,000

Only 5 fights edging out an entire year of UFC PPV’s. All together that weighs in at 4,975,000

Again I KNOW I missed a lot of big fights, HBO had seven big events on their own not to mention huge boxing events like Mayorga vs Vargas and Calzaghe vs Kessler but I am not chronicling all events just enough to make my point so please don’t comment on it I know their huge fights but their not included I havemade my point and that is that.

With around 15 to 20 big boxing events a year it only takes five to make more than an entire calendar year of UFC events.

Last year was a record breaking year for boxing with the biggest PPV numbers, the highest revenue, the biggest amount ever made for a boxer in a single fight, the biggest amount of PPV numbers sold by one fighter in a year, simply put boxing has never had a more successful year than last year more records were broken in 2007 than in any other year.

Boxing made history last year in it’s overwhelming success but it doesnt stop there this year that record is already close to being broken with the two biggest fights of the year yet to come including another world record breaking bout purported to sell over 2.5 million PPV’s.

The good stuff doesn’t stop here either though next year there are proposals in place for a fight that would break the world record for the biggest live gate at the Wembley stadium with upto 100 thousand people packing into the stadium and what would be the biggest fight in England and Europe. There is also another proposal for a historic fight in Wales with Calzaghe and there is a possibility the world record for PPV sales could be broken again.. three years in a row.

Not only is boxing not dying it is so ahead of the competition and more successful than it has ever been in at any point in its 100+ year history. It only takes a few big bouts of boxing on a yearly basis to drown the entire calendar year of UFC events and with superstars like c all developing into multi million selling artists and with the possibility of Mayweather returning to the ring we are talking about the height of boxing right now.

Mayweather last year alone sold four million PPV’s, one fighter sells nearly as much as the entire UFC in a whole year? I think this one is a wrap up, the UFC is not even coming close to Boxing numbers it only takes a few big megafights a year to drown the UFC PPV numbers. Boxing has never been this popular, the PPV numbers have never been this high and the sport has more multi million PPV sellers right now than any point in its history.

They say an opinion is like an asshole, everybody has one and it usually stinks and I agree with that sentiment so I challenge the detractors to argue with the numbers and leave their flavour of logic out of it.