Question about a Call

[PNG Proud]

Can someone explain to me why a penalty would be assessed against the defense for 12 men on the field, before the snap of the ball?  I've asked around to allot of people and no one knows the answer, so I'm asking on here for some clarification.  This penalty came as players were shuffling on and off the field, and there was NO defensive  huddle.

[vidor pirate]

if he was off before the ball was snapped i dont think there should be a penalty

[Indianforever]

if he was off before the ball was snapped i dont think there should be a penalty

well it was called

[TradinUp BH]

I scratched my head on that one too. If I remember the offense was breaking the huddle to punt the ball. It gave LCM a first down since it was 4th and 4. Late hit on QB? and the ground causing the fumble? and the running into the kicker? and on and on and on. It was really bad.  The pass to the LCM player on our sidelines was a catch and fumble out of bounds, and that went against LCM. I hope that crew don't work anymore games.

[PNG Proud]

if he was off before the ball was snapped i dont think there should be a penalty

The flag was thrown BEFORE the O line got set.  The ball was NEVER snapped.

[NDNTime]

if he was off before the ball was snapped i dont think there should be a penalty

The flag was thrown BEFORE the O line got set.  The ball was NEVER snapped.

It should have NEVER been a penalty.  I've never seen this called EVER.  So long as the defensive player gets off of the field before the snap of the ball, there should be no penalty.  As for the back judge, now there is a whole new can of worms.

[79ram65]

Read  c

Legal Substitutions

ARTICLE 2. A legal substitute may replace a player or fill a player vacancy

provided none of the following restrictions is violated:

a. No incoming substitute shall enter the field of play or an end zone while the

ball is in play (live-ball foul) [s22].

b. No player, in excess of 11, shall leave the field of play or an end zone while

the ball is in play (A.R. 3-5-2-I) (live-ball foul) [s22].

c. An incoming legal substitute must enter the field of play directly from his

team area, and a substitute, player or departing player must depart at the

sideline nearest his team area and proceed to his team area. A departing

player must immediately leave the field of play, including the end zones. A

departing player who leaves the huddle or his position within three seconds,

after a substitute becomes a player, is considered to have left immediately.

Team A may not break its huddle with 12 or more players (A.R. 3-5-2-II

[TradinUp BH]

The defense, which was the punt return team never huddled when the player ran off the field

[pngfan1]

About three or four years ago they put in a rule that you could not have 12 men in the huddle. It was agood call, just one of t he sloppy mistakes we made.

[HoopInsider_Cooper]

Right call...There is a 5 yard substitution infraction and 15-yard if they play with 12 men.

It is supposed to be killed before the play gets off.

[NDNTime]

Right call...There is a 5 yard substitution infraction and 15-yard if they play with 12 men.

It is supposed to be killed before the play gets off.

Poor call there back judge..

[PNG Proud]

Bad call, and you know it.  That kind of substitution happens in every game.  You called it, because LCM needed a first!

And besides, IMHO it was not ethical for you to be calling a game for a city in which you reside...if in fact that's where you live.

[PNG Proud]

About three or four years ago they put in a rule that you could not have 12 men in the huddle. It was agood call, just one of t he sloppy mistakes we made.

There WAS NO HUDDLE.

[NDNTime]

Right call...There is a 5 yard substitution infraction and 15-yard if they play with 12 men.

It is supposed to be killed before the play gets off.

Poor call there back judge..

What about your late hit call on the juggled ball that was still in the air?  You got a good reason for that one?  You were about 30 yards from it.  It happened right in front of the line judge and umpire.  I guess they must have just missed that one.  I mean, I'm sure they blew the whsitle and all.

[TradinUp BH]

Right call...There is a 5 yard substitution infraction and 15-yard if they play with 12 men.

It is supposed to be killed before the play gets off.

? I don't understand the 5 yard one, and they never played with 12.

[vp93]

It is a correct call. On defense it is an illegal substitution if there were 12 players inside the hash marks. some defenses never huddle so it is if they are between the hash marks.

[PNG Proud]

Right call...There is a 5 yard substitution infraction and 15-yard if they play with 12 men.

It is supposed to be killed before the play gets off.

? I don't understand the 5 yard one, and they never played with 12.

What he's saying is, it's a 5 yd., unless the play happens, in which case it's 15.

[badndn]

Never huddled and they were punting. We did not have 12 meen inside the hashes! Bad call!

[TradinUp BH]

It is a correct call. On defense it is an illegal substitution if there were 12 players inside the hash marks. some defenses never huddle so it is if they are between the hash marks.

So players wait until other players are past the hash marks and then run onto the field. I'm sorry I have never seen that called and I've been around football for a long time. Heck if thats the case they should've thrown flags on LCM coaches for being on the field and never being warned. Went on all game

[lhssr75]

The huddle does not apply to the defense.  Some questions that need to be considered are

1.  Was the snap imminent?

2.  Had more than three seconds elapsed?

3.  Was the replaced player moving to get off the field?

If the snap was imminent or the replaced player doesn't leave the field within three seconds then a foul has occurred whether the ball is put in play or not.  Five yard penalty, dead ball foul.

[TradinUp BH]

The player was sprinting off of the field before the kicking team even lined up. I would say the kick wasn't imminent. I think the call was chicken, but hey whatever.

[PNG Proud]

The player in question was running off the field, but the flag was thrown before he could get off.....well before any motion of a snap.

[lcmmom]

:'( :'( :'( :'( PNG you win the game and still  :'( :'( :'( That poor sportmanship if I've seen it! There were bad calls both ways, its sad that both teams has to play the Ref's also. All I ever want is a honest called game from the Ref's.

[TradinUp BH]

He didn't run across the entire field, he was close to the PNG sideline and would've been in the locker room by the time the kick was made.

[TradinUp BH]

:'( :'( :'( :'( PNG you win the game and still  :'( :'( :'( That poor sportmanship if I've seen it! There were bad calls both ways, its sad that both teams has to play the Ref's also. All I ever want is a honest called game from the Ref's.

OK you lost me there????????????????????