WOS Volleyball forfeits district game for football game/Game rescheduled!!!

[Cat22]

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[AggiesAreWe]

Thank you, Gary Stelly!!!!

Gary Stelly, KOGT.com

Members of the West Orange-Stark volleyball team would rather attend Friday's non-district football game in Brookshire than play a district game against Hardin-Jefferson, forcing the Mustangs to forfeit the game because they wouldn't have enough players.

Several members of the team are also on the cheerleading squad or drill team and would rather attend the game.  And most if not all, are being supported by their parents.  Why?  Because they have to pay for their kids to be a part of those squads (uniforms, etc.) but not to wear a volleyball uniform.  In other words, they want their money's worth.

But you don't have to have a certain number of cheerleaders or drill team members to participate on a Friday night.  However you do have to have at least six to play volleyball.  The move put volleyball coach Gwen Kelly in a pickle.  She attempted to get the game moved by Hardin-Jefferson but they said no because of prior commitments.  And since it doesn't involve weather, sickness, or death, they shouldn't have to change.

So rather than play as a team, a team you joined voluntarily, you abandon your team and your school.  And will there be repercussions?  Probably not.

Let's add that this is a game that they could win!  Until this year when Coach Kelly brought her daughter to WOS from Silsbee, the volleyball team hadn't won in two years.  They're 12-7 this season and have a chance to win their first district game....nah, let's go to the football game.

Now don't blame football.  Many have told me they're making them go to football and it's football's decision.  Please.  Although Dan Hooks hasn't said it, I've known him long enough to know unless you're wearing a uniform or a coaches shirt, he could care less.  Maybe you can blame Hooks as the athletic director for not making them play.  So let's say he says they have to play and so they just decide to quit instead.  Why not?  They'd obviously rather cheer and dance.

Kelly, who is also the cheerleading sponsor (go figure) to which her daughter is also a member, had to have known this would be a problem at the beginning of the season, as well as the girls and parents involved.  If you play basketball, you shouldn't expect as long of a Christmas break.  If you play baseball or softball, don't expect a full week of Spring Break.  If you play volleyball, there's a chance you might not make it to every football game.

If there aren't enough kids that want to play, which includes not having a freshman team already, why not just cancel the season?  WOS is cash strapped and has cut just about every sports budget anyway.  Save the coaching stipends, the money spent on balls, uniforms, referees, custodians, bus trips, electricity for the gym, and the embarrassment, and give it to the sports that have kids that want to play.  That's what happened to soccer.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.  But in 25 years I've never seen anyone forfeit a district game in any sport.  You probably wouldn't have even known what was going on if you haven't read my story or Van's in the Leader.  But I've talked to a dozen coaches, some at WOS, who collectively said, "over my dead body" would this be acceptable on my team.  I was hoping to get Kelly's response to all of this but my call has not been returned.

One volleyball coach said, "It sucks. WOS has improved enough that they could possibly sneak up and beat a playoff contender.  I'm not happy about them giving one of them a win for free."

In the words of former NFL coach Herm Edwards, "You play to win the game."  You don't cheer to win or dance to win.  I would not want to be the one who cost my team a game.  Maybe that's "old school" thinking.  Maybe priorities have changed.

By the way, WO-Cove is letting school out at noon on Friday for those that may want to attend the 7:30pm non-district football game.  According to Texas Travel it takes two hours and fifteen minutes to get to Brookshire. Directions are on the sports page.

[KFDM COOP]

Mike, i think you have made your point today. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AggiesAreWe]

Mike, i think you have made your point today. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry, I told you I would do so until you know when.

I agree, 100% of the blame shouldn't be on Dan, but a big part of it should. He could nip this in the bud if he wanted too.

[KFDM COOP]

I Freaking know more than you think. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks.

[Bucof2010]

I Freaking know more than you think. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks.

Ouch

[w]

Mike, i think you have made your point today. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry, I told you I would do so until you know when.

I agree, 100% of the blame shouldn't be on Dan, but a big part of it should. He could nip this in the bud if he wanted too.

What's he gonna do AAW?  He'll meet with the coach, I'm sure and get her take on it.  But if the girls decide they want to quit the vb squad and go to the fb game, what's she gonna do?  

[AggiesAreWe]

I Freaking know more than you think. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks.

But I think more than you know. ;D

Are you saying that Hooks is TOTALLY innocent of all this and can do nothing at all about it?

[AggiesAreWe]

Mike, i think you have made your point today. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry, I told you I would do so until you know when.

I agree, 100% of the blame shouldn't be on Dan, but a big part of it should. He could nip this in the bud if he wanted too.

What's he gonna do AAW?  He'll meet with the coach, I'm sure and get her take on it.  But if the girls decide they want to quit the vb squad and go to the fb game, what's she gonna do?  

But the question is, have the girls quit the team or will they be allowed back to play next week? My deal about Hooks is that he is over all athletics at WOS, he does have a say in all this.

[w]

Mike, i think you have made your point today. Don't blame this BS on Coach Hooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry, I told you I would do so until you know when.

I agree, 100% of the blame shouldn't be on Dan, but a big part of it should. He could nip this in the bud if he wanted too.

What's he gonna do AAW?  He'll meet with the coach, I'm sure and get her take on it.  But if the girls decide they want to quit the vb squad and go to the fb game, what's she gonna do?  

But the question is, have the girls quit the team or will they be allowed back to play next week? My deal about Hooks is that he is over all athletics at WOS, he does have a say in all this.

That might be your question and you have stated it.  Now leave it alone.  It's between him and his coach.

[jacf]

IS THE COACHES DAUGHTER ( THE CHEERLEADER ) ONE OF THE PLAYERS THAT DONT WANT TO PLAY ? THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO KNOW...IF SHE IS THEN THE COACH SHOULD MAKE HER PLAY THEN SHE WOULD ONLY HAVE TO BRING TWO GIRLS UP FROM J.V. TO GIVE THEM ENOUGH TO PLAY.....AND WHY DONT HOOKS TELL HER TO BRING UP SOME J.V. PLAYERS AND PLAY THE GAME....

[w]

I was wondering when someone at WOS would do something wrong to get Aggies Are We started up on the WOS hate stuff.

Thanks Hotrodg for your post.

As I stated in another thread...this isn't the first time something like this has happened.  Soccer players left a baseball tournament in DeRidder, LA to come back home to play a soccer game.  Coach was mad, but put jv players or bench sitters in the place of the starters.  Kids want to participate in multiple events and sometimes they have to make a choice.  I'm not saying that the choice they made is right, I'm saying don't make a big deal out of it just because it's at WOS and football.  It's happened other places, too.

I did a story similar to this when HF would not play BC in baseball last year

But IF it was discussed on this site, it wasn't on the football thread!  Move it over to volleyball where it belongs.

[AggiesAreWe]

It's involving a football game, it has every right to be in this forum. Checked with the owner on that one.

[w]

It's involving a football game, it has every right to be in this forum. Checked with the owner on that one.

LOL......

[AggiesAreWe]

It's involving a football game, it has every right to be in this forum. Checked with the owner on that one.

LOL......

w, you don't know the half of it. This has all been a real hoot for me. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[WOSgrad]

I have read these and started and stopped my own post in order to lend some perspective from a WO-S graduate.  I'll start by saying that I am disappointed by the decision that those young ladies have made in choosing to not to participate in a contest in which their presence is vital for the event to even take place for an event for which their presence, however desirable, will not effect the outcome of that event.  Perhaps I am even more disappointed in the parents who, if I correctly read the accounts, are really the ones who engineered this mutiny solely for the purposes of their own desires to go see a football game over 100 miles a way rather than view an event in which their own children participate.  In a moment of fate, my pondering my post here, I had the opportunity to speak to my father, a man who although vastly less educated than I, is considerably smarter.  He reminded me of times that other events in which I was representing WO-S caused me to miss many a Mustang football game, including the first of many in what has become a long string of playoff games, the 1985 bi-district contest against Aldine MacArthur.  He also, not suprisingly, cautioned that he would have NEVER allowed me to shirk my commitments to my school and then had words of such a harsh degree that they cannot  be repeated here.  I choose at this point to lay this faux paux at the feet of those parents.

Of course, this is where many are rolling their eyes and saying "Oh another poster who's gonna absolve Dan Hooks!"  To some extent, you may be right, except for a couple of things.  Afterall, he is correct, if the the girls and parents come to him and say that flat out that they're not going to be going to the volleyball game but will make the trip to Brookshire, there are not a whole lot of options that he has.  Although I view this as an action of abandonment, it is not a act of truancy so there is not much within his administrative powers and not much in the way of legal option he has at his disposal.  He and Coach Kelly could move members of the volleyball JV up to take the place of the girls.  But would moving up that many girls, which by Coach Kelly's judgment were not ready for varsity play, be in reality any different than the forfeit that, at this point anyway, seems an inevitability?

Another popular option is that Coach Hooks threaten the girls with removal from the volleyball team altogether.  Well, given that the very action for which sanction is being pondered is refusal to play in a game in which the volleyball team was scheduled to play, it appears that volleyball is not exactly a high priority for those eight girls.  Thus, I don't know that threatening to remove the girls from the team would have a real big deterrent effect for these young ladies.  Moreover, such an action would turn one forfeit, which from the 10 pages worth of posts (and probably a few more by the time I hit the "post" button) is undesirable, into 7 forfeits.  I don't know that would be a desirable outcome to any involved in 21-3A, WO-S athletics or posters on this board.  Don't get me wrong, this action requires some sanction, but the considerations I expressed probably pale in number to those that Coach Hooks and Coach Kelly will have to consider before any action is taken.

There are some that are probably thinking that Coach Hooks will be allowing this to take place as he somehow benefits as having the full cheerleader and Fillies contingent with the football team on Friday night.  History dictates otherwise as much bigger sideline participants have been noticably absent in games where much more was at stake.  Those that remember the 1986 season will recall that at the WO-S/Jasper state quarterfinal playoff game at Bowers Stadium in Huntsville, the school song was sung without accompaniment from the marching band and that the Mustangs entered the field not to the blaring of the fight song but merely to the cheers of Mustangs fans because the band wasn't there....they were en route after competing in the UIL Marching Contest.  So to say that a man whose team did pretty well in a big game in which the band was missing for half of the game, would perhaps behind the scenes engineer this situation seems a bit far fetched.  

But enough of the digression, perhaps the most disappointing thing is that this action does more to further a perception that makes many a Mustang alum bristle.....that at West Orange-Stark.....if it ain't football, it doesn't matter!!! I can post all night that it isn't true, but the picture that most of the volleyball team has painted is worth more than one thousand of my words.

[w]

It's involving a football game, it has every right to be in this forum. Checked with the owner on that one.

LOL......

w, you don't know the half of it. This has all been a real hoot for me. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

There's no doubt in my mind AAW.  I've seen it in you for years how you loathe the 'stangs and anything that involves them.  LOL.  

[WOSgrad]

It's involving a football game, it has every right to be in this forum. Checked with the owner on that one.

LOL......

w, you don't know the half of it. This has all been a real hoot for me. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

There's no doubt in my mind AAW.  I've seen it in you for years how you loathe the 'stangs and anything that involves them.  LOL.  

I am kind of confused as those who doesn't believe that this thread is not in the proper forum.  The very reason behind this action, regardless of who folks choose to "blame" is attendance at a football game.  Maybe putting this thread in this forum will bring more awareness to many a hard working young lady who toil, for the most part in anonymity due to the fact that their sport is butt up against football season.  While, the subject of this thread is volleyball's priority at WO-S.  The activity in the volleyball section of this board where there are multiple unheeded pleas of volleyball score from those that have taken the responsibility of updating standings and scores indicates to me that volleyball is not a priority at many more campuses other than the one on Newton St. in West Orange, Texas.

[w]

Whereas your posts are very informative and extremely well-put, WOSgrad, my point about it being in this forum is the negativity that it has cast over the football program at WOS, and is enhanced by the sarcastic and tarnished remarks from posters such as AAW who are obviously jealous of the WOS football program and continuously revel in anything that sheds said negativity over it.  The choice has been made by the coach, the volleyball team and the parents.  Regardless of where their preferences are, it seems obvious that it is not with volleyball, but because they are vb players of record, then I stand by my statement that this thread belongs on the volleyball forum.  (Or perhaps the cheerleading and/or drill team forum).

[AggiesAreWe]

I thank you very much for your insight Grad. You have made me take a step back for the good.

I think you know where I am coming from on most of this, but I thank you for making me rethink on how I view this from here on out.

I still believe the administration could do something here, maybe put it to the girls as they need to honor their commitment to the volleyball team in order to cheer or dance at the game.

[WOSgrad]

I thank you very much for your insight Grad. You have made me take a step back for the good.

I think you know where I am coming from on most of this, but I thank you for making me rethink on how I view this from here on out.

I still believe the administration could do something here, maybe put it to the girls as they need to honor their commitment to the volleyball team in order to cheer or dance at the game.

AAW, you and I are on the same page that something should be done.  The choice that those young ladies made does not sit well with this WO-S alum.  Perhaps the alternative that you have offered is the best as it does have the most teeth....

[stang4life]

I have read these and started and stopped my own post in order to lend some perspective from a WO-S graduate.  I'll start by saying that I am disappointed by the decision that those young ladies have made in choosing to not to participate in a contest in which their presence is vital for the event to even take place for an event for which their presence, however desirable, will not effect the outcome of that event.  Perhaps I am even more disappointed in the parents who, if I correctly read the accounts, are really the ones who engineered this mutiny solely for the purposes of their own desires to go see a football game over 100 miles a way rather than view an event in which their own children participate.  In a moment of fate, my pondering my post here, I had the opportunity to speak to my father, a man who although vastly less educated than I, is considerably smarter.  He reminded me of times that other events in which I was representing WO-S caused me to miss many a Mustang football game, including the first of many in what has become a long string of playoff games, the 1985 bi-district contest against Aldine MacArthur.  He also, not suprisingly, cautioned that he would have NEVER allowed me to shirk my commitments to my school and then had words of such a harsh degree that they cannot  be repeated here.  I choose at this point to lay this faux paux at the feet of those parents.

Of course, this is where many are rolling their eyes and saying "Oh another poster who's gonna absolve Dan Hooks!"  To some extent, you may be right, except for a couple of things.  Afterall, he is correct, if the the girls and parents come to him and say that flat out that they're not going to be going to the volleyball game but will make the trip to Brookshire, there are not a whole lot of options that he has.  Although I view this as an action of abandonment, it is not a act of truancy so there is not much within his administrative powers and not much in the way of legal option he has at his disposal.  He and Coach Hall could move members of the volleyball JV up to take the place of the girls.  But would moving up that many girls, which by Coach Hall's judgment were not ready for varsity play, be in reality any different than the forfeit that, at this point anyway, seems an inevitability?

Another popular option is that Coach Hooks threaten the girls with removal from the volleyball team altogether.  Well, given that the very action for which sanction is being pondered is refusal to play in a game in which the volleyball team was scheduled to play, it appears that volleyball is not exactly a high priority for those eight girls.  Thus, I don't know that threatening to remove the girls from the team would have a real big deterrent effect for these young ladies.  Moreover, such an action would turn one forfeit, which from the 10 pages worth of posts (and probably a few more by the time I hit the "post" button)is undesirable, into 7 forfeits.  I don't know that would be a desirable outcome to any involved in 21-3A, WO-S athletics or posters on this board.  Don't get me wrong, this action requires some sanction, but the considerations I expressed probably pale in number to those that Coach Hooks and Coach Hall will have to consider before any action is taken.

There are some that are probably thinking that Coach Hooks will be allowing this to take place as he somehow benefits as having the full cheerleader and Fillies contingent with the football team on Friday night.  History dictates otherwise as much bigger sideline participants have been noticably absent in games where much more was at stake.  Those that remember the 1986 season will recall that at the WO-S/Jasper state quarterfinal playoff game at Bowers Stadium in Huntsville, the school song was sung without accompaniment from the marching band and that the Mustangs entered the field not to the blaring of the fight song but merely to the cheers of Mustangs fans because the band wasn't there....they were en route after competing in the UIL Marching Contest.  So to say that a man whose team did pretty well in a big game in which the band was missing for half of the game, would perhaps behind the scenes engineer this situation seems a bit far fetched.  

But enough of the digression, perhaps the most disappointing thing is that this action does more to further a perception that makes many a Mustang alum bristle.....that at West Orange-Stark.....if it ain't football, it doesn't matter!!! I can post all night that it isn't true, but the picture that most of the volleyball team has painted is worth more than one thousand of my words.

Amen. Amen.

[stang4life]

Whereas your posts are very informative and extremely well-put, WOSgrad, my point about it being in this forum is the negativity that it has cast over the football program at WOS, and is enhanced by the sarcastic and tarnished remarks from posters such as AAW who are obviously jealous of the WOS football program and continuously revel in anything that sheds said negativity over it.  The choice has been made by the coach, the volleyball team and the parents.  Regardless of where their preferences are, it seems obvious that it is not with volleyball, but because they are vb players of record, then I stand by my statement that this thread belongs on the volleyball forum.  (Or perhaps the cheerleading and/or drill team forum).

W....the "forum gods" have spoken....  Maybe more Mustangs could DONATE to the website and get to experience some of this power!  Oooops....maybe NOT!

[AggiesAreWe]

Contrary to what you might believe, donating to the site does not make you a moderator. If you would take the time to look, there are some mods and admins who haven't donated and some members who have donated but remain just a member.

[WOSgrad]

Whereas your posts are very informative and extremely well-put, WOSgrad, my point about it being in this forum is the negativity that it has cast over the football program at WOS, and is enhanced by the sarcastic and tarnished remarks from posters such as AAW who are obviously jealous of the WOS football program and continuously revel in anything that sheds said negativity over it.  The choice has been made by the coach, the volleyball team and the parents.  Regardless of where their preferences are, it seems obvious that it is not with volleyball, but because they are vb players of record, then I stand by my statement that this thread belongs on the volleyball forum.  (Or perhaps the cheerleading and/or drill team forum).

w, we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one.  I understand your point that whatever events precipitated it, the forfeiture of a volleyball game is, at its very base, a volleyball story.  But when as big as football is in this area, and yes, especially as WO-S, I can't say that it is inappropriate for the thread to appear here in the football thread.  

As for the use of this to take a shot at WO-S, well, w, you and I know that has been happening long before the age of the internet.  We have to take the bad and the good and I believe there will be more positive stories than bad.  

And then finally as to AAW, he is one of my oldest and best friends on these internet boards.  He and I have known each other long before there was a setxsports.com and I can assure you that other than one game each season, he is an admirer of Coach Hooks and the Mustang football program.  And should predictions hold true and both the Mustangs and the Tigers get into the 3A playoffs, that the Mustangs will be able to count AAW as one of their most ardent supporters.  Yes, he is opinionated...if we didn't have opinionated people on this board, it would be an awful boring place. But enough of the AAW defense as he is a big boy and can take care of himself.