jake94 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Drastic times cause for drastic measures... A few things that have crossed my mind for Mid COunty Madness... 1. Split time at RB every other series with Nick Cardenas and Grant Lovelady when we are in the spread. Let both also start on defense. Alternate series at RB to keep them somewhat fresh. 2. Use Ryan Brady, our fastest player and run the Wildcat offense on occasion. Use a mix of Salenga, Lovelady or Cardenas in the backfield with him. 3. Use Brady and Salenga(our two fastest players) in certain defensive situations to limit giving up the long runs and passes. 4. Use more I-formation and try our hand at running the ball and the clock more in this game. 5. Let Trahan kick away all night! He has been our best and most consistent weapon. I am by no means a coach and never claimed to be. But, these are a few things that I was thinking of that might increase our chances in this game. Thoughts?
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Defense, my friend, is gonna win this game. So, give some suggestions to help Ned. on defense. Drastic times cause for drastic measures... A few things that have crossed my mind for Mid COunty Madness... 1. Split time at RB every other series with Nick Cardenas and Grant Lovelady when we are in the spread. Let both also start on defense. Alternate series at RB to keep them somewhat fresh. 2. Use Ryan Brady, our fastest player and run the Wildcat offense on occasion. Use a mix of Salenga, Lovelady or Cardenas in the backfield with him. 3. Use Brady and Salenga(our two fastest players) in certain defensive situations to limit giving up the long runs and passes. 4. Use more I-formation and try our hand at running the ball and the clock more in this game. 5. Let Trahan kick away all night! He has been our best and most consistent weapon. I am by no means a coach and never claimed to be. But, these are a few things that I was thinking of that might increase our chances in this game. Thoughts?
PhatMack19 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Running the ball and eating clock will help the Defense.
Guest Brubaker Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Rather, Neumann compared Nederland's situation to playing a card game. "Sometimes its not about the hand your dealt, but really, how you play your cards," Neumann said. "For me it's the first time in 16 years I have been in the position where I've had to start three quarterbacks in a season, but its like I told our team, we cannot let this be a road block for us." Jake, I have to think some of your suggestions maybe in the cards. At this point, Neumann and the Dogs are pushing it All-In.
jake94 Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Posted October 1, 2009 Defense, my friend, is gonna win this game. So, give some suggestions to help Ned. on defense. Drastic times cause for drastic measures... A few things that have crossed my mind for Mid COunty Madness... 1. Split time at RB every other series with Nick Cardenas and Grant Lovelady when we are in the spread. Let both also start on defense. Alternate series at RB to keep them somewhat fresh. 2. Use Ryan Brady, our fastest player and run the Wildcat offense on occasion. Use a mix of Salenga, Lovelady or Cardenas in the backfield with him. 3. Use Brady and Salenga(our two fastest players) in certain defensive situations to limit giving up the long runs and passes. 4. Use more I-formation and try our hand at running the ball and the clock more in this game. 5. Let Trahan kick away all night! He has been our best and most consistent weapon. I am by no means a coach and never claimed to be. But, these are a few things that I was thinking of that might increase our chances in this game. Thoughts? #1, my friend, addresses defense. Putting our best 2 defenders back at LB and splitting their time on offense to keep them fresh if possible. #3 also touches on defense.
Guest Brubaker Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Smitty has long conteded that it's time for the defensive staff at nederland to go, they are the problem. He does not take to what many people believe to be the problem in that we've struggled defensively since we went to the spread. It's a 1:1 correlation in most folks eyes.
The Icon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Its the opinion of many that when a team switches to a spread type offense, the demeanor of the team begins to change. The players become finesse and lose that killer instinct. Now given there are the Southlakes and UTs of the world but they are few a far between. I agree with yall have to say, but will take it a step further. I am a huge fan of the spread offense, but you have to have the personnel to run it. I think its in the best interest of nederland to scrap it for now. Simplify the offense to give Atterberry the best chance to win. I, Pro, Twin tights, Ace, I really don't care. He needs to be under center, handing the ball off and chewing the clock.
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 So, if this is the problem, then why does Neumann continue with the spread? PS - The spread doesn't seem to be effecting PN-G's #1 ranked defense. 1:1 correlation only for Nederland? Just curious. Smitty has long conteded that it's time for the defensive staff at nederland to go, they are the problem. He does not take to what many people believe to be the problem in that we've struggled defensively since we went to the spread. It's a 1:1 correlation in most folks eyes.
OldNedDog Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 So, if this is the problem, then why does Neumann continue with the spread? Smitty has long conteded that it's time for the defensive staff at nederland to go, they are the problem. He does not take to what many people believe to be the problem in that we've struggled defensively since we went to the spread. It's a 1:1 correlation in most folks eyes. Not enough size on the offensive line to blow open running lanes? Not sure, just a thought.
Jackthehammer Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 I will reply here forgive me Nederland fans or ignore my statement if it bothers you as I am not from Nederland. I have family who are die hard Bulldog fans. They have been telling me for years at least 2 or 3 that they beleive that its time to overhaul Big Neds defensive system if you will. Once again Im not from Nederland and its not my opinion. I however do not feel that 20-4a is the same with a non playoff caliber Nederland team. Hope it works out for you guys. You kinda got the raw end of the stick this seaseon so far.
rollinac Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Its the opinion of many that when a team switches to a spread type offense, the demeanor of the team begins to change. The players become finesse and lose that killer instinct. Now given there are the Southlakes and UTs of the world but they are few a far between. I agree with yall have to say, but will take it a step further. I am a huge fan of the spread offense, but you have to have the personnel to run it. I think its in the best interest of nederland to scrap it for now. Simplify the offense to give Atterberry the best chance to win. I, Pro, Twin tights, Ace, I really don't care. He needs to be under center, handing the ball off and chewing the clock. I wouldn't forget the Lake Travis, Friendswood, Sulphur Springs, or Daytons of the world either...just to mention a few.
B.M.F. Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy.
33 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy. in a spread offense you're not firing out at the defense and youre "catching"them to make your blocks. so jmo but it will make your O-Line soft...
The Icon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Never said it was a stone fact, just the opinion of some. If we can simplify the offense for the time being, minimize penalties and turnovers, and control the clock, we'll have a better chance of winning the game
Razor Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy. in a spread offense you're not firing out at the defense and youre "catching"them to make your blocks. so jmo but it will make your O-Line soft... It hasn't seemed to be a problem for the University of Florida, Texas, Oklahoma...I could go on and on...granted, you do have to have the folks to run it and given the current situation, you may see Nederland giving some different looks this week....should be interesting...we'll see.
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Well, the original charge was that Nederland's spread offense was the reason for their defensive performance, on the down side, all these many years of the spread. Any other opinions on this theory? So, if this is the problem, then why does Neumann continue with the spread? PS - The spread doesn't seem to be effecting PN-G's #1 ranked defense. 1:1 correlation only for Nederland? Just curious. Smitty has long conteded that it's time for the defensive staff at nederland to go, they are the problem. He does not take to what many people believe to be the problem in that we've struggled defensively since we went to the spread. It's a 1:1 correlation in most folks eyes.
33 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy. in a spread offense you're not firing out at the defense and youre "catching"them to make your blocks. so jmo but it will make your O-Line soft... It hasn't seemed to be a problem for the University of Florida, Texas, Oklahoma...I could go on and on...granted, you do have to have the folks to run it and given the current situation, you may see Nederland giving some different looks this week....should be interesting...we'll see. right, you have to have the right guys for the spread... but you also see college and nfl teams that run the spread with other formations as well... they dont just run the spread the whole game... you have to mix it up for it to be successful... jmo
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Well, the original charge was that Nederland's spread offense was the reason for their defensive performance, on the down side, all these many years of the spread. Brubaker and I have different opinions on this. Any other opinions on this theory? So, if this is the problem, then why does Neumann continue with the spread? PS - The spread doesn't seem to be effecting PN-G's #1 ranked defense. 1:1 correlation only for Nederland? Just curious. Smitty has long conteded that it's time for the defensive staff at nederland to go, they are the problem. He does not take to what many people believe to be the problem in that we've struggled defensively since we went to the spread. It's a 1:1 correlation in most folks eyes.
B.M.F. Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy. in a spread offense you're not firing out at the defense and youre "catching"them to make your blocks. so jmo but it will make your O-Line soft... With that statement you have proven to me you have no idea what you're talking about. Thanks for playing.
James Mosley Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Here is some nice reading about the spread from someone who is known to have had some success running it. When people hear "spread" they think of the passing game. The truth is the spread running game can be lethal. A few years ago I coached at a school that made a run to the Texas high school state championship game. We put the spread in not because we thought we would dominate in the passing game but because we knew the team would be a great running team. The spread has become the fastest growing offense at the high school level. I wonder how many truly understand all facets of the offense. When done properly it can be similar to a full court press in basketball and it will slowly wear the other team down. The running game is an integral part of becoming a complete offense. Coaches need to rep running as much or more than the passing game and few understand this. There are three basic schemes for the offense line to learn inside zone, outside zone, and the counter trey. On some level this may seem simple. Unfortunately all three concepts are tremendously different and often offense lines will struggle to be good at all three. In a typical doubles alignment there are four wide receivers and one running back. The running back usually is set away from playside. So for example if a team is running "2-Base" then the back will be aligned to the quarterback's left and will crossover and attack the 2 hole and is always looking for a cutback lane. The back should be thinking bend or bang and has to read on the run. Often the hole will develop backside and as result no player should think they can take a playoff. Many times a back may end up backside and if the inside receiver is not doing his job his guy will make a touchdown saving tackle! The foundation of the spread's running game is the zone read. As the back crosses over the quarterback's eyes are on the backside end. If the end closes the quarterback will pull the ball and run out the back door. If the end stays disciplined or slow plays then it is an automatic give. In this article I will focus on the responsibilities of the quarterback and runners and I will talk about line play in a later article. Again repetition is critical. Many quarterbacks will guess. They have to read on the run and react to what the defense is giving the offense. 2/3 base is the foundation running play for the spread offense. The quarterback counter trey works off of base and should be learned together with 2/3 base. Quarterback counter trey will look like 2/3 base but there is no read. If the play call was 4 QB counter trey, then the back would align to the right cross over and fake 3 base. The quarterback does not need to ride the ball to back, just let him cross. Backside guard and tackle will pull. The guard will kick the playside end and the tackle will seal on the linebacker. Playside linemen will down block. Let me say here that head up "4" techniques are difficult to counter because it's tough to execute a down block. One of the most common errors by the quarterback will be for him to try and run wide. This play is tight and will be from backside B gap to play side B gap. I promise this play will not work if the QB is not disciplined. He must trust his offense line and be patient. If 2/3 base have successful the QB counter will be successful too. Now 4/5 counter can be run by the back as well. The QB can read this like he does 2/3 base. Often when the backside defensive end sees backside linemen pulling he will close and the QB will have an opportunity to pull the ball. If a team wants to be successful in the spread running game they must become efficient at the counter. It is a miss direction play that keeps the backside honest. Often inside linebackers will cross key. Tendencies for most spread teams show that a majority of time if the back is away the running play is coming to you. One way to keep them honest is to mix up the running back's alignment. Align the back playside on counter some. This takes away the QB's read but break's the crossover tendency. But if your team runs counter well this will hurt them keying crossover tendencies. The third running scheme is outside zone. There are three outside zone running plays and they involve the wide receiver, running back, and quarterback. Outside zone keeps defensive ends honest. And just as inside zone and counter work together so can counter and outside zone. Some teams won't widen the end but will use an outside linebacker to split the difference between an inside receiver and the tackle. (This is where the bubble is important). Having success running outside zone will cause defensive ends to widen which makes them prime targets to be kicked by pulling guards when running counter. The most difficult type of outside zone play and the hardest to time is the jet sweep. The QB will start the inside receiver in motion and just before he arrives at the QB ball will be snapped and handed to him running full speed. Once this play is perfected it opens up many other possibilities in both running game and passing game. Offensive linemen will cut backside and stretch playside. It is easy for offensive line coaches to over coach this. Teach your linemen to work to the playside arm pit and stay engaged! It is a fast play and penetration is about the only thing that can cause problems. Playside receivers play a large role in the success of this play. If a team is running man coverage I would crack both playside receivers. As they attack the crack path they will block their men by running them out of the play. A cover 2 squat corner can difficult but the receiver must learn to occupy. Receivers need to learn the same concept as playside linemen, stay engaged. Let your back be a back! The final outside zones are 8/9 zone and 8/9 QB zone. Offensive line has the same responsibility as jet sweep. 8/9 zone the back will cross over the QB will zone read. 8/9 zone the back will cross over and the QB will attack the perimeter. I have talked about three schemes with many different looks out of one formation. That is the tremendous advantage of the spread. Good coaches will mix it up and stay away from tendencies. There are several pass plays that work off these run plays to keep defenses honest. A good offensive coach puts himself on the defensive side and asks the question, "What would give me problems then implements it." The beauty of the spread is that once you have run it a while you understand its simplicity. It's my belief in high school football a coach could run five or six running plays out of the spread and five or six pass plays and be successful. That is dependent on play calling but most importantly on execution. Limit the number of plays and formations so you rep the core plays and become proficient! Often you will find out adding plays and formations to fool the defense will likely just fool your offense!
rollinac Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 right, you have to have the right guys for the spread... but you also see college and nfl teams that run the spread with other formations as well... they dont just run the spread the whole game... you have to mix it up for it to be successful... jmo I'd disagree with this completely....the spread can take advantage of whatever you have....size or speed...it puts players in more 1 on 1 matchups. Now if you're going to line up and run the I or the wishbone then it's much more dependent on having big linemen that can dominate the line of scrimmage....hence MUCH more dependent on your personnel. Bill Walsh "created" the west coast offense while in Cincy under Paul Brown to address their inability to run the football because they didn't have the personnel to do it. As for your defense, I still have no idea how what offense you're running impacts the way you play defense?? If your defense sucks while you run the spread it will ALSO suck when you run the I formation.
dayton Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The spread offense doesn't make a team sissy. Sissies make the team sissy. in a spread offense you're not firing out at the defense and youre "catching"them to make your blocks. so jmo but it will make your O-Line soft... but... it doesn't make your Defense soft. I think that is the argument.
dayton Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 right, you have to have the right guys for the spread... but you also see college and nfl teams that run the spread with other formations as well... they dont just run the spread the whole game... you have to mix it up for it to be successful... jmo I'd disagree with this completely....the spread can take advantage of whatever you have....size or speed...it puts players in more 1 on 1 matchups. Now if you're going to line up and run the I or the wishbone then it's much more dependent on having big linemen that can dominate the line of scrimmage....hence MUCH more dependent on your personnel. Bill Walsh "created" the west coast offense while in Cincy under Paul Brown to address their inability to run the football because they didn't have the personnel to do it. As for your defense, I still have no idea how what offense you're running impacts the way you play defense?? If your defense sucks while you run the spread it will ALSO suck when you run the I formation. Agreed
Guest Brubaker Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality.
badndn Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The backdraw against the defense when the offense runs the spread is that the teams that run the spread usually throw more and the game is extended leaving the defense on the field more. And when the spread is rolling it can be a quick hitter offense that also gets the defense on the field more, but if the defense can handle it, it is great to have all the points to be able to gamble a little on defense! PNG's defense has been on the field more this year than in years past, but the key has been that we have ZERO two way players and go about 15 deep om defense (lot's of substituting).
Recommended Posts