adminbaberuth Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 I admit, I'm no football guru, but i've noticed if you don't have an offensive line that can protect the QB plus win the battle in the trenches you are not going anywhere.
PhatMack19 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 right, you have to have the right guys for the spread... but you also see college and nfl teams that run the spread with other formations as well... they dont just run the spread the whole game... you have to mix it up for it to be successful... jmo I'd disagree with this completely....the spread can take advantage of whatever you have....size or speed...it puts players in more 1 on 1 matchups. Now if you're going to line up and run the I or the wishbone then it's much more dependent on having big linemen that can dominate the line of scrimmage....hence MUCH more dependent on your personnel. Bill Walsh "created" the west coast offense while in Cincy under Paul Brown to address their inability to run the football because they didn't have the personnel to do it. As for your defense, I still have no idea how what offense you're running impacts the way you play defense?? If your defense sucks while you run the spread it will ALSO suck when you run the I formation. I agree with that to a point. The offense can help the defense by controlling the clock. There have been multiple games in the last few years when the defense was on the field around 75% of the time. If your defense is fresh in the 4Th quarter they will play better, I don't care what offense you run. Too many times this year the defense makes a stop and the Offense goes 3 & out or commits a turnover. In a game last year, the defense made a stop and the offense got the ball back with 3 minutes to go in the game and a 7 point lead. After 3 straight incompletions, 14 seconds were burnt off the clock. That is not a spread problem, its a play calling problem. Against Ozen, Nederland only allowed 10 points in regulation. That should be good enough to win most games. If the offense can hold onto the ball and control the clock with a good running game, the defense will be fine.
Guest Brubaker Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The backdraw against the defense when the offense runs the spread is that the teams that run the spread usually throw more and the game is extended leaving the defense on the field more. And when the spread is rolling it can be a quick hitter offense that also gets the defense on the field more, but if the defense can handle it, it is great to have all the points to be able to gamble a little on defense! PNG's defense has been on the field more this year than in years past, but the key has been that we have ZERO two way players and go about 15 deep om defense (lot's of substituting). I've never agreed with you bad, but good point.
Razor Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 IMO, no matter what you run, the game of football begins up front with the offensive and defensive lines.
PhatMack19 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0.
Guest Brubaker Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0. Therefore, we load the offense to execute the spread. A lot has to do with injuries, but some has to do with raw numbers, which has been discussed at length on the Bigned.com board.
rollinac Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Too many times this year the defense makes a stop and the Offense goes 3 & out or commits a turnover. In a game last year, the defense made a stop and the offense got the ball back with 3 minutes to go in the game and a 7 point lead. After 3 straight incompletions, 14 seconds were burnt off the clock. That is not a spread problem, its a play calling problem. I hear a lot of "Buddy Ryan" type arguments. I'd much rather try to win the game then try to not lose the game...
rollinac Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0. Dayton has always had players going both ways.....so get the best athletes on the field or try to keep them fresh for the 4th quarter....sounds like a trade-off to me.....
Guest Penny Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Adversity can breed many different responses. I expect Nederland to respond by adjusting and making the most out of what they've got, where they are, and where they want to be. If Neumann has shown one thing about himself, that's it, he won't sit still and he won't accept what others perceive to be. Nederland's in a tough spot, and nothing gets better til it does.
rollinac Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Adversity can breed many different responses. I expect Nederland to respond by adjusting and making the most out of what they've got, where they are, and where they want to be. If Neumann has shown one thing about himself, that's it, he won't sit still and he won't accept what others perceive to be. Nederland's in a tough spot, and nothing gets better til it does. Agreed
PhatMack19 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Some facts about Nederland's offense: Power I - 11 straight playoff appearances when only 2, then 3 teams made it from every district. Spread - In their 3rd year in this offense the Dogs have 1 playoff appearance. They now take 4 teams! I guess going to the playoffs every year wasn't good enough, so we changed the offense and now go every 3 years.
Nederland Dog 2006 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Correct me if I'm mistaken, but to me, with us having the spread, our quarterbacks are getting hurried, hit, sacked, and ultimately injured more. I mean less protection up front leads to more of that i would think. And I know those big nasty stinkies would rather get a full head of steam and do some run blocking instead of pass blocking and running draw plays. I could be wrong but to me, the spread works if you have a more mobile QB which we really don't. Could be wrong. Just my two cents.
1989NDN Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 The Nederland fans who want to get rid of Delbert Spell are insane ... DC Spell has forgotten more football than anyone on this message board will ever know. If Nederland wants to get rid of DC Spell, then he can walk over to PN-G and we should find a place for him somewhere. His experience, coaching abilities, schemes, and passion for high school sports is not easily replaced. I like all of the new PN-G coaches from top to bottom, including our new defensive coaches and the schemes they teach, but, if Nederland runs off DC Spell, then PN-G and Coach Faircloth should ask him to put on a purple and white shirt and join our staff. A team could do a lot worse than Delbert Spell. Coaches Neumann and Spell can only work with the talent they have. They do not control injuries, inexperienced players, or low number of kids turning out for football. They can teach tackling, being in position to make a play, putting in schemes for kids to have an opportunity for success, and motivating a kid to play hard, but, when a team is crushed by injuries, that is not the fault of the coaches. Neumann and Spell have earned the right to have 1 sub-par season. The PN-G v. Ned game will be close, it will be fun for the kids involved, and after the game all of the residents and alumni of PN-G and Nederland will be just fine. All that said, I want PN-G to win 100 to 0. Still, I have too many Bulldog friends and I don't enjoy seeing their program have a down year. Nederland will bounce back. If you run off Spell, tell him to walk over the tracks to PN-G ... he's way too good a coach and man to be without a job very long. Go Indians. Peace.
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 I'm thinking most teams will load the good players on defense first. Because if you can't stop anybody, you are not going to win. Unless a coach likes a track meet every game. Maybe some do. When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0. Therefore, we load the offense to execute the spread. A lot has to do with injuries, but some has to do with raw numbers, which has been discussed at length on the Bigned.com board.
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Good advise -- from an Indian. You sly dog, uh, Indian. ;D The Nederland fans who want to get rid of Delbert Spell are insane ... DC Spell has forgotten more football than anyone on this message board will ever know. If Nederland wants to get rid of DC Spell, then he can walk over to PN-G and we should find a place for him somewhere. His experience, coaching abilities, schemes, and passion for high school sports is not easily replaced. I like all of the new PN-G coaches from top to bottom, including our new defensive coaches and the schemes they teach, but, if Nederland runs off DC Spell, then PN-G and Coach Faircloth should ask him to put on a purple and white shirt and join our staff. A team could do a lot worse than Delbert Spell. Coaches Neumann and Spell can only work with the talent they have. They do not control injuries, inexperienced players, or low number of kids turning out for football. They can teach tackling, being in position to make a play, putting in schemes for kids to have an opportunity for success, and motivating a kid to play hard, but, when a team is crushed by injuries, that is not the fault of the coaches. Neumann and Spell have earned the right to have 1 sub-par season. The PN-G v. Ned game will be close, it will be fun for the kids involved, and after the game all of the residents and alumni of PN-G and Nederland will be just fine. All that said, I want PN-G to win 100 to 0. Still, I have too many Bulldog friends and I don't enjoy seeing their program have a down year. Nederland will bounce back. If you run off Spell, tell him to walk over the tracks to PN-G ... he's way too good a coach and man to be without a job very long. Go Indians. Peace.
outanup Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Its been said that the D in Ned has suffered because the O gets dibs. Is this true? Cant say for sure, but ive heard such. I know alot of you may not want to here this but, maybe all the pieces to the puzzle just arent there. IMO, its a cycle. And INJURIES!!!!!
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 So, you are saying the good players get placed on offense first at Nederland? Interesting! Its been said that the D in Ned has suffered because the O gets dibs. Is this true? Cant say for sure, but ive heard such. I know alot of you may not want to here this but, maybe all the pieces to the puzzle just arent there. IMO, its a cycle. And INJURIES!!!!!
outanup Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 Smitty, cant say for sure. But maybe its decided with ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS.
smitty Posted October 1, 2009 Report Posted October 1, 2009 ;D Smitty, cant say for sure. But maybe its decide with ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS.
dawgnut Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Trying to figure out which side of the ball gets the players is like trying to figure out which came first the chicken or the egg. When you only have 7 or 8 players that can go one way you have to put 11 on the field. We have WR's that play in passing situations. The real debate should be why we don't have at least 22 good players so we don't have to play as many both ways.
Guest Brubaker Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Smitty, Nederland doesn't have the numbers, like I said quantity that they've had. I'll ask you again, did you pay attention or watch the 4th quarter defense when Cardenas and Lovelady both played lb? You won't answer, you make a smart ass comment about what I felt was an honest opinion from 89NDN, we all know you think Spell should be fired, you don't mask your comments very well. I'm thinking most teams will load the good players on defense first. Because if you can't stop anybody, you are not going to win. Unless a coach likes a track meet every game. Maybe some do. When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0. Therefore, we load the offense to execute the spread. A lot has to do with injuries, but some has to do with raw numbers, which has been discussed at length on the Bigned.com board.
bulldogdad55 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 IMO, you put Atterberry under center and run, run, run .. don't know if we'll be able to do that against the #1 defense in District, but all we can do is try. Run the wildcat .. anything to keep the ball out of their hands .. work the clock and mix up plays .. that may be the only chance we have. Keep ourselves in the game and force them into some mistakes we can capitalize on .. you never know what may happen .. Defense has to play well obviously, maybe turn this into a defensive battle and somehow pull it out .. I really think that what we have to play with and the heart of our leaders, that we will prevail .. i know the odds are definately stacked against us and they give us no chance of winning this game ..... PNG should blow us out of their new stadium .. but sometimes when things look so easy .. it just don't turn out that way .. keep that in mind ... this is a HUGE rivalry game .. our BOYS will come to play
smitty Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Bring it down a notch, Bru. If you are talking about the "Maybe some do" comment, it was not directed at you. I was referring to HC's that might would rather have a track meet on the football field with no defense. If it's something else, let me know. You ought to know me by now: I don't attack people's opinion unless attacked first. But you are right, it's my opinion the DC should be replaced. But, I never said fired. There's no masking here. I've been consistent with this thought through out. And one thing I never do is blame the players. I think I've stated this also before. As for the fourth quarter defense play, I would be more inclined to agree if it was the first quarter instead. By the fourth, the other team is tired and this may have caused what you are talking about. Not saying that it did, but the possibilities were there. Smitty, Nederland doesn't have the numbers, like I said quantity that they've had. I'll ask you again, did you pay attention or watch the 4th quarter defense when Cardenas and Lovelady both played lb? You won't answer, you make a smart butt comment about what I felt was an honest opinion from 89NDN, we all know you think Spell should be fired, you don't mask your comments very well. I'm thinking most teams will load the good players on defense first. Because if you can't stop anybody, you are not going to win. Unless a coach likes a track meet every game. Maybe some do. When you think personnel to run the spread, think quantity and quality. I feel we have the quality, maybe not the quantity. We routinely pour the best athletes onto the offense to effectively run the spread. Not saying the defensive personnel is chopped liver, but it at times misses pieces. Like last Friday, when we were forced to play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB in the 4th quarter. Smitty, please go back and look at the stats, watch the video... whatever you need to do... we played dominant defense in the 4th quarter with this change. But, can we play Cardenas and Lovelady at LB the entire game and get the same level of play from them... I question the quantity versus the quality. I agree about the quantity. Nederland has 4 or 5 kids that go both ways most of the time, and a few others that see some action on both sides. PN-G has 0. Therefore, we load the offense to execute the spread. A lot has to do with injuries, but some has to do with raw numbers, which has been discussed at length on the Bigned.com board.
jake94 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Posted October 2, 2009 Some facts about Nederland's offense: Power I - 11 straight playoff appearances when only 2, then 3 teams made it from every district. Spread - In their 3rd year in this offense the Dogs have 1 playoff appearance. They now take 4 teams! I guess going to the playoffs every year wasn't good enough, so we changed the offense and now go every 3 years. I could not agree more!
Guest rykerx144 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Them Bulldogs are fierce this year, they are looking great and I think they will win this one pretty easily! Im predicting 30 by half! Wait a sec??? Indians? Like PNG Indians? oh wait I thought this was a Jasper Bulldog thread! I take all that back, Sorry Nederland your on your own! Good Luck!!
Recommended Posts