A Couple of South Texas Bucks Shot Last Week

[jdawg03]

The one on the left scored over 220. The one on the right scored right at 160.

[Lefty99]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

[westend1]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.  Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

[Lefty99]

:o  What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.   Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

yeah, it's 13".  Looks smaller than 16".  Ears are almost in alert position in that photo.  That's where there should be a certain age at where you can shoot a deer that's not over 13" spread.  I've seen some big racks (pt wise) out of small spreads.

[westend1]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.   Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

yeah, it's 13".  Looks closer that 16".  Ears are almost in alert position in that photo.  That's where there should be a certain age at where you can shoot a deer that's not over 13" spread.  I've seen some big racks (pt wise) out of small spreads.

Unfortunately, most hunters can't age a deer on the hoof.  I'm sure a few older, inferior deer will get a free pass, but I still like the restriction over all.

[Lefty99]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.   Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

yeah, it's 13".  Looks closer that 16".  Ears are almost in alert position in that photo.  That's where there should be a certain age at where you can shoot a deer that's not over 13" spread.  I've seen some big racks (pt wise) out of small spreads.

Unfortunately, most hunters can't age a deer on the hoof.  I'm sure a few older, inferior deer will get a free pass, but I still like the restriction over all.

Oh I do too.  It is a shame that most can't judge on the hoof.  There should be a class to take.  Heck there is a site that has a game on aging deer.  whitetaildomains.com.  Pretty helpful for a rookie.  I have talked to many people that hunt around Carthage and it has paid off 10 fold.  It's just keeping the poaching down in this area.

[tvc184]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.   Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

yeah, it's 13".  Looks closer that 16".  Ears are almost in alert position in that photo.  That's where there should be a certain age at where you can shoot a deer that's not over 13" spread.  I've seen some big racks (pt wise) out of small spreads.

Unfortunately, most hunters can't age a deer on the hoof.  I'm sure a few older, inferior deer will get a free pass, but I still like the restriction over all.

Yes, an age restriction would be much better than antler restrictions. The problem is the people judging on the hoof.

I was in south Texas last year on a bowhunting ranch where the restriction is a three and a half year old or pay a $500 fine. One guy last year killed a year and a half old 6 point basket rack that weighed about 105 pounds and he swore it was three years old. He paid the $500 fine though.

[Lefty99]

:o   What ranch was this from and near what town?  Sad thing is that the 160 is pretty close to that antler restriction rule I am under in Jasper Co.  How wide was it (Inside spread)?

Looks about 16" to me.   Does the deal in east texas require 13" inside?

yeah, it's 13".  Looks closer that 16".  Ears are almost in alert position in that photo.  That's where there should be a certain age at where you can shoot a deer that's not over 13" spread.  I've seen some big racks (pt wise) out of small spreads.

Unfortunately, most hunters can't age a deer on the hoof.  I'm sure a few older, inferior deer will get a free pass, but I still like the restriction over all.

Yes, an age restriction would be much better than antler restrictions. The problem is the people judging on the hoof.

I was in south Texas last year on a bowhunting ranch where the restriction is a three and a half year old or pay a $500 fine. One guy last year killed a year and a half old 6 point basket rack that weighed about 105 pounds and he swore it was three years old. He paid the $500 fine though.

Not everyone can be as knowledgeable about judging on the hoof as us setxsports guys!

[tvc184]

Not everyone can be as knowledgeable about judging on the hoof as us setxsports guys!

Ain't that the truth.  ;D

I may be dogging out us east Texas hunters but I believe a lot of it is the mentality in this part of the state. The "If it's brown, it's down" (mis)management style doesn't leave much to be judged. Maybe some of these antler restrictions will help with the education but I have my doubts. I do believe that even though it isn't perfect, in the long run it will help.

Of course if it is a private lease, someone can always get into the MLD program and not have to worry about those rules including up to hunting with guns during the archery only season.

[Lefty99]

Not everyone can be as knowledgeable about judging on the hoof as us setxsports guys!

Ain't that the truth.  ;D

I may be dogging out us east Texas hunters but I believe a lot of it is the mentality in this part of the state. The "If it's brown, it's down" (mis)management style doesn't leave much to be judged. Maybe some of these antler restrictions will help with the education but I have my doubts. I do believe that even though it isn't perfect, in the long run it will help.

Of course if it is a private lease, someone can always get into the MLD program and not have to worry about those rules including up to hunting with guns during the archery only season.

You are right about that.  For instance I saw a good young 6 that was just a hair inside his ears and next yr he will most likely be legal....baring no one from the club next to me shoots him this yr (i.e. if it's brown, it's down).  But give him another 2-3 maybe even 4 yrs he'll be a dandy for sure.  He was probably 1.5 - 2.5...good semitry, length, and mass for a young deer.  I hope he makes it

[BearBryant]

Not everyone can be as knowledgeable about judging on the hoof as us setxsports guys!

Ain't that the truth.  ;D

I may be dogging out us east Texas hunters but I believe a lot of it is the mentality in this part of the state. The "If it's brown, it's down" (mis)management style doesn't leave much to be judged. Maybe some of these antler restrictions will help with the education but I have my doubts. I do believe that even though it isn't perfect, in the long run it will help.

Of course if it is a private lease, someone can always get into the MLD program and not have to worry about those rules including up to hunting with guns during the archery only season.

I don't know why I'm even doing this cause its going to open a can of worms.  Its sort of arrogant to assume that hunters don't know what they are doing when they shoot smaller bucks.  I know many many experienced and ethical hunters who really don't care about trophy hunting.  They simply enjoy the hunt. They are legal, ethical and very knowledgeable. 

[tvc184]

I don't know why I'm even doing this cause its going to open a can of worms.  Its sort of arrogant to assume that hunters don't know what they are doing when they shoot smaller bucks.  I know many many experienced and ethical hunters who really don't care about trophy hunting.  They simply enjoy the hunt. They are legal, ethical and very knowledgeable. 

I understand meat hunting and that goes right in line with the east Texas, kill it if it moves. When it was legal, there was no questions but due to that practice of killing yearling deer, the state is moving in to remedy it.

That is why the new law with the state wanting the herd to grow up. It also doesn't make sense to do a meat hunt in south Texas when it is going to cost you $500 for  Bambi when you are on a trophy ranch.

If these ethical hunters knew how and would kill mature deer, then there would be no need for a 13" spread restriction and it could go to a 3.5 year old deer no matter the spread.

As far as the can of worms, if someone is on their own lease and they want to kill nothing but spikes and four pointers, then go for it. It is there land. Of course with the new antler restrictions, that may no longer be legal.

[BearBryant]

I don't know why I'm even doing this cause its going to open a can of worms.  Its sort of arrogant to assume that hunters don't know what they are doing when they shoot smaller bucks.  I know many many experienced and ethical hunters who really don't care about trophy hunting.  They simply enjoy the hunt. They are legal, ethical and very knowledgeable. 

I understand meat hunting and that goes right in line with the east Texas, kill it if it moves. When it was legal, there was no questions but due to that practice of killing yearling deer, the state is moving in to remedy it.

That is why the new law with the state wanting the herd to grow up. It also doesn't make sense to do a meat hunt in south Texas when it is going to cost you $500 for  Bambi when you are on a trophy ranch.

If these ethical hunters knew how and would kill mature deer, then there would be no need for a 13" spread restriction and it could go to a 3.5 year old deer no matter the spread.

As far as the can of worms, if someone is on their own lease and they want to kill nothing but spikes and four pointers, then go for it. It is there land. Of course with the new antler restrictions, that may no longer be legal.

What I"m saying is that they aren't in it for the antlers.  That doesn't mean that they have the mindset of "kill it if it moves".  Many of them don't fill all their tags.  If they had that mindset they would fill them all.  My grandfather has hunted all of his life and there isn't a better sportsman or hunter than he when it comes to reading deer signs,tracking deer, and the like yet he may bring home a 6point and be done.  Yes he passes on deer but ultimately he's not in it for the antlers. I just hate that antlers are running the show.  People can say that they want the age of deer to grow but in the end its all about antler size.

[tvc184]

That is what I tried to say. I could care less if someone is a meat hunter and wants to kill small deer on his lease or his own land.

But I have to wonder, if it is just for meat, why not kill the overcrowded does? There aren't many areas of the state and surely not in our area that does aren't overrunning the entire area. I kill a couple of does every year for meat and to take them out of the herd.

Again, no problem with killing any deer but most people hunt for horns and unless you can make sure that all deer stay on your property, you are also depriving your neighbor of mature deer that just happens to run on his property also. I don't look down on people that kill immature deer but sometimes I wonder at the wisdom of it. Let him grow one more year and that same 6 pointer will likely be an 8 or more next year and maybe significantly heavier.

Fish have size limits to let them grow up, why not deer?

[WHFAN]

This new rule is gonna drive the price of a lease up,the way i see it Bigger bucks means more bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!land owners will take advantage of this new rule

[tvc184]

This new rule is gonna drive the price of a lease up,the way i see it Bigger bucks means more bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!land owners will take advantage of this new rule

I don't think so. Letting the natural deer in the area grow another year isn't going to all of a sudden make a bunch of trophy ranches in east Texas.

[BearBryant]

This new rule is gonna drive the price of a lease up,the way i see it Bigger bucks means more bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!land owners will take advantage of this new rule

I don't think so. Letting the natural deer in the area grow another year isn't going to all of a sudden make a bunch of trophy ranches in east Texas.

Ours goes up almost every year but its been doing that for a while.

I'm not 100% against this.  I have mixed feelings.  I welcome more mature deer. 

[tvc184]

This new rule is gonna drive the price of a lease up,the way i see it Bigger bucks means more bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!land owners will take advantage of this new rule

I don't think so. Letting the natural deer in the area grow another year isn't going to all of a sudden make a bunch of trophy ranches in east Texas.

Ours goes up almost every year but its been doing that for a while.

I'm not 100% against this.  I have mixed feelings.  I welcome more mature deer. 

This is the way I think about it. Let's say you take one or two bucks a year. All you ever see and kill is 4 and 6 pointers. It's just my opinion but the reason that you only see 4 and 6 pointers is because the majority of them are being killed at that age. If for example, you have 8 hunters on a 1,000 acre lease and you average 1.5 bucks per hunter, then 12 bucks are being taken off of a fairly small area.

Let those bucks grow for one or two years and you will start killing 8 and 10 pointers of decent size. You will still be killing the same amount of bucks a year (and maybe more), they will just be larger.

I know that on our lease, we had a rule that a deer had to be 6 points. I have no clue as to why because if you are going to kill a buck that you aren't going to hang the horns on the wall, what does it matter on how many horns you aren't getting mounted? Anyway, that is almost all that we saw. On rare occasion someone would get a glimpse of a decent deer on a game cam and someone may see one jump across the road. We just didn't have any big deer. About 5 years ago a hunter on our lease killed that looked like a great deer and it came out to 110 inches. Then we started our management program which was just to kill lots of does and let the bucks grow to at least 3.5 years old.

Last year our biggest buck taken was 138 inches. This year we have lots of pictures of several bucks that are bigger. One pic at a game cam shows at least 3 that are good looking deer with two having trophy (135" or larger) racks. We used to not see that in an entire year on the entire lease. Now we are getting that all over.

We are seeing much larger bucks than we have ever seen and seeing a lot more of them. The deal is, once you let the herd get some age on it, you can still take our your deer each year but instead of killing that 1.5 year old, you are killing a mature deer. Even for a meat hunter, isn't it better to take a 150 pound buck than one weighing about 105 pounds?

And kill lot of does. I am surprised at how many people have leases that are overrun with does and they don't anyone to kill them.

[BearBryant]

I agree with that. 

The problem with this is that these rules do not allow for the killing of trash bucks.  My son killed a 6 point 4 years ago (his first buck) that had a rack no bigger than a softball.  It weighed 140 pounds.  Under these rules this buck could not be killed.  I know that these are not the norm though.

[tvc184]

I agree with that. 

The problem with this is that these rules do not allow for the killing of trash bucks.  My son killed a 6 point 4 years ago (his first buck) that had a rack no bigger than a softball.  It weighed 140 pounds.  Under these rules this buck could not be killed.  I know that these are not the norm though.

Yes, that is the problem with the new antler restrictions.

It surely isn't a perfect system but hopefully if we get the buck to doe ration correct and let the bucks grow so we can actually have dominant bucks, then maybe these basket racks will slowly be sent the way of all nature selected breeding. If the weak were allowed to thrive in a normal environment, most species would have died out by now.

When there are 8 does to each buck (like on our lease about five years ago), then a year old spike will be breeding does. Why worry about dominant bucks when he can't handle all the ones he comes across.

Like I said, it is not the perfect system but I think it is better than killing yearlings every year. If hunters give it a chance, I think in a couple of years people are going to be happy with the results. Of course, if we could end most of the poaching, we would be even happier with the results.

[BearBryant]

yes the poaching is killing us but I"m sure poaching goes on everywhere.  Also some of these leases must change. 

This is crazy...  I hunt on a family lease but in this case each and every member of my family (2 boys, me and wife) can tag out on bucks, we get two does per family.  Now I have enough conservation sense to realize that if we did that it wouldnt' be too long before there would be nothing left.  last year we killed 1 buck and 2 does off my lease.  We save tags for a south Texas trip every year. 

However I know several families that are maxing out everything and taking home 8 deer off my lease with only 2 of them does.  Drives me absolutely crazy!.

[tvc184]

Better 6 deer with 5 of them does.

I can't get over the fact that some people think that does should have some kind of protection or shouldn't be killed.

[bassman]

By the way, what do the horns of a trophy deer taste like?

[tvc184]

By the way, what do the horns of a trophy deer taste like?

Probably about the same as bones. What does it matter?

[westend1]

By the way, what do the horns of a trophy deer taste like?

What does the meat of a trophy deer taste like?  95% will tell you they would rather have beef, which is much easier to come by.