Question about PW/JR seeding.

[L-TRAIN]

I think every coach should be standing with NED (white) on this !!!!  The STJFL should be fair ,, and the competition should be fair as well !!!  Ned ( white) should've been #4 ,,  Yes this would change the games in the first round , but I think it would set things to alot more even competition !!!

Played @ SILSBEE  7-12  ,,, Class of 94 ,,,

                                                 

[Guest bulldawg16]

Thanks for the support L-Train, we are looking forward to playing you all on Sat.or possibly later on in the playoffs. I think everyone in the league will agree that this is the right thing to do. A change in the bracket will put Ned White playing Ned Black in the first round. Noone wants to battle a team from their own league in the playoffs, but if that's what it has to come down to, then so be it.

[L-TRAIN]

Thanks for the support L-Train, we are looking forward to playing you all on Sat.or possibly later on in the playoffs. I think everyone in the league will agree that this is the right thing to do. A change in the bracket will put Ned White playing Ned Black in the first round. Noone wants to battle a team from their own league in the playoffs, but if that's what it has to come down to, then so be it.

You're very welcome , I can't wait to see this game myself !!! I do think Ned ( white) deserves #4 , and yes it changes things ,, I think for the better ,,, even though you would play NED ( black) !!!

  I know Im gone take some heat for saying it , but there is something to said about how lopsided it would be in  PNG (white)  favore  if the #4 is'nt  seeded properly !!!  I think it's only fair myself ,, and before anyone gets started  no it's not what i think would give LUM any advantage ,, because if i had it the way I would  (( WANT ))  it would be LUM vs WOS in SB ,, this won't be even possible !!!  GOOD LUCK in getting you r due seeding , but if not ,, I'LL see you SAT for the best game of the week !!!

[LR33]

Since were changing the seeding, then lets get it right. ;D

* Lum White went 8-0 (4-0 in the division). We only had 5 teams in our Division.

*PNG White went 7-1 (5-0 in the division). They had 6 teams in there Division.

You should go off winning % when you have lopsided divisions. (But No) :'(

Just because they had 1 more divisional game they get it. Everybody knows 8-0 beats 7-1 ;D not 5-0 beats 4-0. ??? ??

So if we are being fair to the kids, lets be fair to ALL the kids. My kids played the schedule that was giving to them from the STJFL and did what we asked of them. Looking back we never had a chance to get the 1 seed.  >

[Lamar1996]

You people are killing me.  Who cares who plays whom!  These are 1st, 2nd, & 3rd graders.  They could care less who there next opp. is.  Is the STJFL for the kids are the adults.  So what if your team is playing as a lower seed than YOU think.  The board made a decision days ago so live with it.  I have an idea, lets suit all the coaches and parents up and have the playoffs instead  :.  See how dumb that sound just like this thread.  JUST LET THE KIDS PLAY!!

[BAM2000]

Since were changing the seeding, then lets get it right. ;D

* Lum White went 8-0 (4-0 in the division). We only had 5 teams in our Division.

*PNG White went 7-1 (5-0 in the division). They had 6 teams in there Division.

You should go off winning % when you have lopsided divisions. (But No) :'(

Just because they had 1 more divisional game they get it. Everybody knows 8-0 beats 7-1 ;D not 5-0 beats 4-0. ??? ??

So if we are being fair to the kids, lets be fair to ALL the kids. My kids played the schedule that was giving to them from the STJFL and did what we asked of them. Looking back we never had a chance to get the 1 seed.  >

There definitely needs to be some changes in the rules for next yr. But you are #2. Playing a #7 seed team... (that should be #4.) They only teams getting benefited from the (miss communication/representation) is PNG. PURPLE & WHITE.   White is STILL Playing #8 and Purple DOESN'T have to play #2!!!! (they get #5 instead)

[BAM2000]

You people are killing me.  Who cares who plays whom!  These are 1st, 2nd, & 3rd graders.  They could care less who there next opp. is.  Is the STJFL for the kids are the adults.  So what if your team is playing as a lower seed than YOU think.  The board made a decision days ago so live with it.  I have an idea, lets suit all the coaches and parents up and have the playoffs instead  :.  See how dumb that sound just like this thread.  JUST LET THE KIDS PLAY!!

WHAT????? The board made the decision SUNDAY AFTERNOON! NED white was notified that evening. I was looking into this whole (playoff classification) Monday. You are exactly right this is FOR THE KIDS. MY KID is one of them! That is why it SHOULD BE DONE FAIRLY!!!!

oh and what are you on the board??? Lamar1996, or wait maybe your team was given a "break"

[BAM2000]

just like I figured... Lamar1996!!! Your an INDIAN! HAHA GO FIGURE.

[AllSportsMom]

You people are killing me.  Who cares who plays whom!  These are 1st, 2nd, & 3rd graders.  They could care less who there next opp. is.  Is the STJFL for the kids are the adults.  So what if your team is playing as a lower seed than YOU think.  The board made a decision days ago so live with it.  I have an idea, lets suit all the coaches and parents up and have the playoffs instead  :.  See how dumb that sound just like this thread.  JUST LET THE KIDS PLAY!!

I do not have anyone in the playoffs but when you have eligibility rules & everyone is monitoring the season based on those rules & then at the end they aren't used then what was the point of having them in the first place.  Just make it up as you go along & then no one can contradict.  But any team that goes to the playoffs in this league or anywhere the adults, kids, whomever want competitiveness & proper places/seedings.  If they are seeded incorrectly & scores don't reflect what you'd expect then there will always be that what if scenario if the teams were seeded correctly.

After the WOS - PNG Purple forfeit, someone said that they hoped this didn't affect the playoffs.  Well it did.... It affected Ned-White cuz Hd 2 Hd w/o it PNG-P would be 3-2 & WOS 5-0 and this issue wouldn't exist.

[Lamar1996]

just like I figured... Lamar1996!!! Your an INDIAN! HAHA GO FIGURE.

What does that have to do with anything regarding my kid??  Nothing!!  So your a Bulldog, no one is perfect ;D.  Same is being said about the board issue.  They are not perfect too.  Isn't the STJFL a nonprofit organization?  We have great volunteers taking part in a great organization and people like you crying about who is seeded where.  Boo Hoo!!  Is it really not fair for your son or is it really not fair his DADDY?  Grow up, it is suppose to be fun win or lose.

[jmk]

BAM..Give the league an opportunity to evaluate and handle this. For you to spout off about incompetent board members shows a lack of understanding on your part. How many day long scheduling meetings or half day playoff meetings have you attended much less chaired? You are a pee wee coach, if I understand correctly. This means that you have limited experience in this league ,yet you have the audacity to call out board members as incompetent. Some of these board members have spent countless hours devoted to the kids,parents,and communities in which these kids play football. As a parent that had a kid involved in Pop Warner several years back I can say that this league is head and shoulders above Pop Warner. Do you realize the commitment it takes in order to make sure a league of this size functions properly on a week to week basis. Each individual organization spends alot of time and money to ensure that the kids in this area have an opportunity to learn the game of football, along with sportmanship and team work. I do not know who you are personally, but if you are not directly involved with NYFA or STJFL ,other than being a coach, I suggest you take a look at the big picture before you call people,that devote their time and energy, incompetent. Give the board a chance and if they do not  make the proper call, according to your opinion, then I suggest you make the decision to devote several years to develope a league that has been as successful as STJFL. Think before you speak grasshopper....

[Lamar1996]

BAM..Give the league an opportunity to evaluate and handle this. For you to spout off about incompetent board members shows a lack of understanding on your part. How many day long scheduling meetings or half day playoff meetings have you attended much less chaired? You are a pee wee coach, if I understand correctly. This means that you have limited experience in this league ,yet you have the audacity to call out board members as incompetent. Some of these board members have spent countless hours devoted to the kids,parents,and communities in which these kids play football. As a parent that had a kid involved in Pop Warner several years back I can say that this league is head and shoulders above Pop Warner. Do you realize the commitment it takes in order to make sure a league of this size functions properly on a week to week basis. Each individual organization spends alot of time and money to ensure that the kids in this area have an opportunity to learn the game of football, along with sportmanship and team work. I do not know who you are personally, but if you are not directly involved with NYFA or STJFL ,other than being a coach, I suggest you take a look at the big picture before you call people,that devote their time and energy, incompetent. Give the board a chance and if they do not  make the proper call, according to your opinion, then I suggest you make the decision to devote several years to develope a league that has been as successful as STJFL. Think before you speak grasshopper....

Thank You.....Very well stated.

[Guest bulldawg16]

Lamar1996 - look back at your posts from week 5 regarding the WOS forfeit issue. Did your kids really know that WOS didn't play all of their kids? You did what was right and stood up for your kids. I understand your kid plays for the Purple team and as it stands things are the way you want them to be, but we have a team full of concerned parents and if you will read the posts there are supporters from every area including your team that have said, what's fair is fair. It is all about the kids, right??

[BAM2000]

BAM..Give the league an opportunity to evaluate and handle this. For you to spout off about incompetent board members shows a lack of understanding on your part. How many day long scheduling meetings or half day playoff meetings have you attended much less chaired? You are a pee wee coach, if I understand correctly. This means that you have limited experience in this league ,yet you have the audacity to call out board members as incompetent. Some of these board members have spent countless hours devoted to the kids,parents,and communities in which these kids play football. As a parent that had a kid involved in Pop Warner several years back I can say that this league is head and shoulders above Pop Warner. Do you realize the commitment it takes in order to make sure a league of this size functions properly on a week to week basis. Each individual organization spends alot of time and money to ensure that the kids in this area have an opportunity to learn the game of football, along with sportmanship and team work. I do not know who you are personally, but if you are not directly involved with NYFA or STJFL ,other than being a coach, I suggest you take a look at the big picture before you call people,that devote their time and energy, incompetent. Give the board a chance and if they do not  make the proper call, according to your opinion, then I suggest you make the decision to devote several years to develope a league that has been as successful as STJFL. Think before you speak grasshopper....

I do admit that was bad judgement on my part. I am sorry. I myself am a volunteer. I volunteer for every sport my child participates in. (as a coach and board member)  I spoke out of anger at the moment. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.  (Wrong for saying board members were incompetent) After talking with members of stjfl they have taken time out of their schedules and devoted it to this issue.  

However, The page on stjfl (playoff classification) is completely unorganized. The board states they take a little from here, there, etc... and throw it together to make the playoff scenarios (contradicting themselves numerous times in that one page). When an entire team of parents have questions, why? why? why? they need answers.  I teach my children to stand up for what is right and wrong.

[BAM2000]

Lamar1996 - look back at your posts from week 5 regarding the WOS forfeit issue. Did your kids really know that WOS didn't play all of their kids? You did what was right and stood up for your kids. I understand your kid plays for the Purple team and as it stands things are the way you want them to be, but we have a team full of concerned parents and if you will read the posts there are supporters from every area including your team that have said, what's fair is fair. It is all about the kids, right??

very well said bulldawg 16.... fellow person of perfection ;D

[Lamar1996]

Lamar1996 - look back at your posts from week 5 regarding the WOS forfeit issue. Did your kids really know that WOS didn't play all of their kids? You did what was right and stood up for your kids. I understand your kid plays for the Purple team and as it stands things are the way you want them to be, but we have a team full of concerned parents and if you will read the posts there are supporters from every area including your team that have said, what's fair is fair. It is all about the kids, right??

You are so correct...I was highly upset with the WOS coaches not giving every kid their 10 plays.  I later understood the coaches made a mistake and it wasn't on purpose.  I was feeling really bad for those kids, I could have cared less if we loss.  Heck we really did lose on the score board.  WOS has an outstanding team, they still would have beat us if they played every kid their allotted amount of plays.  As far as the seeding goes as long as every player gets at least 10 plays in does it really matters who their lining up against to play?

[BAM2000]

Lamar1996 - look back at your posts from week 5 regarding the WOS forfeit issue. Did your kids really know that WOS didn't play all of their kids? You did what was right and stood up for your kids. I understand your kid plays for the Purple team and as it stands things are the way you want them to be, but we have a team full of concerned parents and if you will read the posts there are supporters from every area including your team that have said, what's fair is fair. It is all about the kids, right??

You are so correct...I was highly upset with the WOS coaches not giving every kid their 10 plays.  I later understood the coaches made a mistake and it wasn't on purpose.  I was feeling really bad for those kids, I could have cared less if we loss.  Heck we really did lose on the score board.  WOS has an outstanding team, they still would have beat us if they played every kid their allotted amount of plays.  As far as the seeding goes as long as every player gets at least 10 plays in does it really matters who their lining up against to play?

If you REALLY didn't care who won, why would you take the forfeit? Just leave everything as is.

From what I understand (from these forums) the coach said he  DID INDEED play all his players the 10 plays. They just forgot to keep track of it.

[jonesjr]

I can honestly see where both sides are comming from !!! Obvioulsy there are some issues that need to be attended to after this year but i DO see how much time that it takes jus being a coach much less than someone who runs the stjfl!!! In my opinion L-white should be 1 seed (they have the best record) regardless if they had one less game !! thats jus how it was drawn up!! I know the we (Vidor Gold) are looking foward to this weeks game against WOS!!! should be a hard hittin football game!!!! The Mustangs are a great football team that loves football should be a blast!!!!! Good luck to both teams

[Guest bulldawg16]

You are so correct...I was highly upset with the WOS coaches not giving every kid their 10 plays.  I later understood the coaches made a mistake and it wasn't on purpose.  I was feeling really bad for those kids, I could have cared less if we loss.  Heck we really did lose on the score board.  WOS has an outstanding team, they still would have beat us if they played every kid their allotted amount of plays.  As far as the seeding goes as long as every player gets at least 10 plays in does it really matters who their lining up against to play?

Yes, it does matter!! Our kids earned the #4 seed and they deserve it.  We can go round and round all night about this issue, but I am standing my ground.  Our team is paying the price for 1.) the WOS forfeit issue and 2.) misleading guidelines.  If your team was in our situation, I would hope that you would stand up for what is right for your kids and coaches.     

[Guest Brubaker]

I'm wondering if there is some playoff bonus money at stake here?  If there isn't then what the heck does it matter.  If you're as good as all this ranting suggests, it shouldn't matter where you are seeded.  I coach lots of youth sports, played in and coached lots of tournaments... at the end of the day, you're trying to prove that you're the best.  It's not like the seed means you have to play an extra game, or travel extra far... it means jack squat.  You still have the same chance to prove that your team is as good as it is.  I am really struggling with all of this whining.  Hey, if someone made a mistake, my goodness, these are 7/8 year olds, it's instructional football, get a frikkin life.  The kids aren't being made to forfeit, everybody still gets a chance to prove what they can do on the field, nobody's left out of the BCS, move on and coach your football team.

[player66]

BUT the qualifications say to use overall results before using points against criteria for breaking a seeding tie.

I think everyone is really missing both side of the argument. 1st, there cannot be any seeding until the 1st and 2nd place teams are define, there is not a seeding issue at this time. How do you break a tie within a division?

2nd issue, the document does not say how to do that, however it does show how it is done in the SR division. So it makes sense that the you would use that to get a division winner and runner up.

Then you would use the seeding guidelines to seed all teams. Althoug the document is horribly written, it is not that complicated.

Play ball, have fun... parents chill

Glad we are in school ball.

[AllSportsMom]

BUT the qualifications say to use overall results before using points against criteria for breaking a seeding tie.

I think everyone is really missing both side of the argument. 1st, there cannot be any seeding until the 1st and 2nd place teams are define, there is not a seeding issue at this time. How do you break a tie within a division?

2nd issue, the document does not say how to do that, however it does show how it is done in the SR division. So it makes sense that the you would use that to get a division winner and runner up.

Then you would use the seeding guidelines to seed all teams. Althoug the document is horribly written, it is not that complicated.

Play ball, have fun... parents chill

Glad we are in school ball.

There is a reason that the Sr Division rules are different. The top 4 teams in each division are in the playoffs.  There aren't any wildcards as in the Top 2 teams in Jr/Peewee.

If it didn't matter then you'd just take the top 8 teams & draw randomly from a hat for the bracket and play.  But you & know that wouldn't be right.  If seeding didn't matter then it wouldn't exist.  Young & old alike all want to be considered at the top.  Yes, in some cases at the bottom isn't necessarily at the bottom. I guess it is hard for me to understand when a team that you beat with overall record & head to head has a higher ranking than you have & your the wildcard. Also, hard for me to grasp a team with a loss is the #1 seed over a team that is undefeated.  Something is wrong with this picture all around.

[teamraider]

The playoff qualifications are probably not put together well on the website and it will be fixed to explain the process better, but the rules used to seed teams have been the same for several years. Ironically the rules that are placing Nederland in a wildcard spot this year are the same rules that gave a division spot to the Nederland Gold team last year and put Lumberton White in a wildcard spot with a 7-1 record.

The rules are not perfect and have to be modified on a constant basis to maintain fairness in every scenario. But keep in mind that the issue here is in the clarification of the rules on the website and not the rules themselves. The most important thing to note is that the STJFL is not intentionally picking on any specific team or association with how they seed or even when and where thay play.

[dailygrowler]

Yes, Brubaker, I do believe there is money at stake.  As far as I see the playoff rules if there is a tie breaker you go to over all record then points scored, then to coin toss. I really doubt that png purple coaches where concerned for the young WOS players not getting their 10 plays, they were just looking for a win anyway they could get it.  I know for a fact that someone had warned them that WOS were not playing all their players so they were watching for that. Now some say all this back and fourth is for the coaches and parents to have their team look better and the kids don't even care, well,the kids are too young to understand how playoffs are decided all they know is to get to the playoffs you have to go out and win each game. That is exactly what NED WHITE young ones did, they got out there and won every game up to the last one and that was supposely the game of the week to watch--two of the top teams going head to head.  How can a team that beat Vidor Gold by 20points be ranked #7 and Vidor #6 the beat Png Purple by 11pts and have Png #5.  Makes no sense! These kids don't understand all this so thats why coaches and parents are fighting for whats right for them---THEY DID THEIR PART!!  Hopefully the board will now do their part for them.  If not it just makes it fitting the SB is at the reservation. Just  Look at 3 of these different records 7-1, 5-2, and 4-3 now place those teams in order

[TradinUp BH]

I'm with PNG White and we'll play whoever, it sounds to me like some of you are scared to play each other ;D We play whoever whenever. If your teams are really that good then it shouldn't matter, let's just play. Ya'll act like we have some inside track or something. Good luck to all teams this weekend and Scalp'em.