Recruiting Advice

[BMTbball09]

Just wanted to offer some recruiting advice to all the high school baseball players and parents.  You guys need to be playing in Texas as much as possible.  Traveling all over the country is a lot of fun, but those are not the schools that are going to recruit your kids (go check out-of-state rosters & see how many texans are each team, then go check Texas rosters).  The main reason for this is the cost of college.  Baseball teams are allowed 11.7 scholarships for their entire team, which means there are very few full scholarships.  I went to Texas A&M on a 19% scholarship which still came out less than any of my out of state offers.  Some of these national showcase events do offer exposure, but its not necessarily the right exposure.  The more opportunities you have to play (and catch their eye) in front of the schools that will recruit you, the better.  Fall baseball is also extremely important.  Many schools do a majority of their recruiting & signing in the fall when they are not tied down with their own teams.  Baseball camps are very good ideas for schools that you would like to attend.  Many of them have 1 day "prospect camps" for juniors & seniors only.

Playing in these nationwide events is good for development because the baseball is being played at a high level.  However, from a recruiting standpoint in this economy, schools are not traveling as much to recruit.

Just wanted to pass along some info to the parents & i also want to encourage any high school senior baseball/softball players to apply for my mothers scholarship.  The Juliet Tyner Memorial Scholarship Foundation awards 4 $1500 college scholarships to local baseball/softball players.  All the info should be in their counselors office.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me at [email protected] .

Thanks.
Jason Tyner

[GTBBaseball]

Jason,

First off,
So glad to see you sign your name to accept the accountibility with your thoughts and opinions.
A rare thing to find at times on these threads.

These concerns you have brought up have not gone unnoticed, for I been doing some research and questioning many within the profession of developmental baseball.

Ill have a 6page report that I'll release in the coming weeks on select baseball concerns and issues.
It discusses in detail, The financial rewards and risks, the impact local select makes on local kids, the travel industry of select baseball(trust me, its a major financial business), and the support we acquire locally from the media, the challenges these high school coaches face and the lack of respect they receive, and comments from college coaches and professional scouts within our regional baseball community.
If the young man is an ELITE PROFESSIONAL PROSPECT, Sure go enjoy the journey, but not the "dime a dozen" local prospect. The Elite player should remain involved locally as well, for his Prospect Status leads to other locals being evaluated as well.

Yet again, I am only concerned with its effects on our local players and have researched for over 4 months on all aspects, which I think many will find interesting and very insightful, not based so much on opinion, but based on facts.

Once again, enjoyed the email today Jason and look forward to speaking with you soon,

Chris Fackler

[AJ25]

Thank you guys for your information.

Just to add a little but of info in there for the families of kids that AREN'T involved in select ball..
Don't feel like it is a necessity to play at the next level. I am proof of it. Although select ball does help loads, it's not completely necessary. Tips for parents that have kids not involved in select (as well as kids responsible enough to do this):
1. Get a correct evaluation on your child's talent level, and what level that could possibly play at. There are very few D1 players out there, don't waste your time contacting coaches from BIG 12 schools if you throw low 80's and don't hit .500.
2. Set up a video camera and video tape your child at their respective position. A lot more recruiting is done through videos than what people believe.
3. Begin making casual contacts with college coaches. Don't exagerate everything and send video in the first email. The first email should simply be you telling the coach a little more about yourself or your child, and giving them an idea of where you're at talent wise. If they email back and request video, THEN send it to them.
4. If the coaches request video and like what they say, they will either (most likely) come watch you play or bring you to the school for a private tryout.

Don't feel like if you don't throw 90 and don't hit for a .500 average you can't play college baseball. Those numbers there are good enough for big D1 schools. If you can throw mid-to-upper 80's with a good offspeed you can go to a legit JUCO (the way to go if you can't play D1) or a good D2. Low 80's you can go to a lower level JUCO or D3.

Most people fail to realize that a lot of the recruiting process has to be done by YOU! The college coaches don't have much time, like Jason and Chris have both said. It's a process that needs to be started no later than your junior year.

[BMTbball09]

Just wanted to add, that i'm not taking a shot at any organization.  I personally think its great the amount of time & money that these organizations are putting in to help kids get noticed.  I think spending that money in a more localized manner, will be much more beneficial.  Baseball is not like football where you get full rides.  50% scholarship in baseball is a huge offer.  A 50% partial out-of-state scholarship is going to cost $100,000+ over 4 years (in most cases).  That same scholarship at a Texas state school is going to be around $30,000.

The key is to take the kids to schools in our recruiting pool versus hoping the schools fly out to see them play.  

I don't have a dog in this fight.  I'm not affiliated with any team.  Just want to inform the parents & kids on how the recruiting process works.  The more times they see you play, the better off you will be.  

Jason Tyner

[TradinUp BH]

I remember a couple of years ago, I brought my oldest boy which was 10 years old at the time to University of Houston baseball camp as a fun thing for him to do. I noticed alot of high school kids pitching and catching with the U of H coaches. I think these kids have a inside track if they're attending these camps as high school players and getting to know the coaches one on one, and the coaches are able to see the progress that these kids are making from their junior to senior year. IMO

[9Doggies]

Great points Chris and Jason. I have a couple of questions. {1} Where do High School age kids play at in Texas other than the Premier League ? {2} What are the name/dates of the tournaments { other than the Premier League } that Texas College Scouts regularly attend ?

[BMTbball09]

The baseball camps are a good idea, but many of the schools have prospect camps held just for juniors & seniors, that would be more beneficial.  As for the videos, I think they are expensive and most of them won't be seen.  Recruiters want to see the kids in person, or go off someones opinion that they trust.  They don't have time to sort through all the videos they get, as most, misrepresent the kids.  There are a lot of internet scouting groups that i wouldn't recommend, as most are just money making operations.

And finally, i didn't have the intent to turn this into an anti-Sundevil post.  I personally believe that its a great organization, that offers opportunities to local kids that they would get no where else.  They have developed a reputation that schools trust and have the ability to get schools to come to them.  Most kids & teams are not in that same situation.  The Sundevils only have so many roster spots & there are a lot more scholarship worthy kids in this area.  I believe staying in the state of Texas as much as possible is the best way to maximize your Texas school exposure (and thus your cheapest education).  Finding tournaments with the highest level of competition is also very important.  Scouts would rather go to a tournament they can see 10 kids vs. going to see 1 kid.  For this reason, the Sundevils event in Jupiter was a great opportunity for those kids.  Events like that are not available to everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't get a D1 scholarship.  There are lots of quality & affordable events in Texas which offer great exposure to the Texas recruiting pool.  I personally had to drive to Houston 5 days a week when i was in high school, to play on select teams in Houston.  Luckily now, there are several organizations in our area that have teams around here that you can try out for.

Again, with the small amount of scholarships schools have to work with & the rising cost of college, i believe focusing on the Texas schools is your best bet.

[GTBBaseball]

Videos are not recognized as a scouting tool unless, there was some preset communication between the coach and player.
Its a gimmick business who feeds off the parents/childrens dreams.

As for tournaments within the area to attend.
Lamar, Angelina, Blinn, Baytown, Houston, Alvin, Dallas, Austin, Baton Rouge, San Antonio host quality tournaments each week during the summer.
It is relatively easy to enter your ballclub to join in on these tournaments.
I know many scouts who attend these tournaments. Last summer GTB took a squad to Baytown and Rice was there to see 2 kids, and when we go to Baton Rouge we always have had 8-10 schools to see our kids perform. So YES, they do get out to see kids in these state-local tournaments.
It usually takes a credible voice before hand to tell them 'there is a kid coming to ?, and his game times for that specific tourney are this-that'.

My entire concerns are we traveled the country side to get so-called exposure for our kids and at the end of the day, 99% of our local prospects will sign within our immediate region (Bellows-Felts(UT), Hester-Benoit(Lamar) Hicks-Kellog(ULL) Statum(A&M)Powell(LSU)) and it doesnt make financial sense to travel to these huge tournaments, raising the finances we had to to be a part of these tournaments only to have the Clemsons, Ga Techs, Miss States, Southern Miss's only offering 50% aid, meaning the kids parents would need to pay close to $8000 and beyond per school year.
1) Our top kids are remaining close to home to attend college(statistics and prospect-percentages stand by this)
2) These big-time scouts dont make the time to evaluate the Avg Prospect, they overlook them and run to the next field.
Its a shame and a huge delima to the college programs too. The Juco budgets and mid-major schools who recruit these avg prospects cannot afford to use recruiting budgeted money to travel to Atlanta-Phoenix-Ft Myers-Jupiter, therefore the local kid is overlooked at these large tournaments by the big budgeted schools and at the same time not looked at locally because these prospects are on the road, not here locally in state being evaluated.
What Lamar has done is incredible, they currently have 19 players in professional baseball and I know Lamar has NEVER traveled the country to see kids, they work hard and do their homework in state. Coach Gilligan traveled to Atlanta one time and found it overbearing to settle in to find kids to come to Lamar from across the country.
So my point earlier about how high school coaches very seldom see these recruiters is due to these colleges cant get out on a Tues-Wed to see local high school games. They are usually playing a college ballgame on a Tues-Wed night and playing on Friday Nights which conflicts with high school scheduling. So summer baseball is an avenue they want to follow but when the local kids are not here playing they have a tough time seeing kids. (This is what motivated us to begin the GTB Fall Prospect League, to aid these local scouts and college programs during the fall to see the local players who were traveling during the entire summer)
   
I'm personally am as guilty as anyone on pulling kids from here and taking them far across the country, and over my years of coaching, only handful of locals signed outside of Texas-Louisiana(Tanner Mathis-Ole Miss / Dustin Hood Wake Forest). But will say both of these 2 were seen at Atlanta(Hood) and Jupiter(Mathis). This is why recently I began researching and studying the risk-rewards, the feeding on high school kids dreams by the Nat'l organizations, and so on, doesnt quiet add up and I have said for 4 or 5 months now, we all are going to see a big change in select baseball in the coming years. This dog of salesmanship and deceiption by these organizations are about to begin falling downhill because the college programs recruiting budgets are beginning to have issues with the system, and the families just cannot afford it, so when a select program can pay all expenses, it sure helps alot. With expenses being paid, I'd recommend a player to enjoy the experience at these elite tournaments nation wide but also develop a balance in some way to be seen locally as well. The Babe Ruth League can be a great way to balance it out during the weekdays, but you need a voice to call these scouts to come evaluate the player driving here to the GT.

And someone had stated on a previous post that a PG Showcase's bring in 100s of scouts, this is not accurate at all.
I want to first state, PG has done some great things for many of kids, but we are discussing the "Direct Impact to Local Players.
Their regional showcases cost $549 per player and they select a 96 player limit to attend. Thats over $52,000 per weekend.
I've personally worked PG showcases at Blinn and Waco and never saw more than 20 scouts attend a PG showcase.
But the great thing is these 15-20 scouts in attendance were all of local origin which is a positive for our local kids who attend.
Id recommend to log onto the PG website and enroll in any in-state showcase, the McKinney Showcase(August) will have local colleges in attendance.
PG Showcases are a Money Maker and a "finder" for the Company. This is where they at times "find" that top arm or hitter and do their anlysis on a kid.
Then it leads to them printing their evaluations on-site(the professional scheme), which then leads to their ranking of players and select teams.
Then it leads to have you the player-parent purchase the PG Crosschecker website($400annually I think).
PG's main mission and goal is to dig up to find the Tier 1(Professional Prospect) or Tier 2 level player(SEC-Big12-ACC-Pac10).
The only Showcases bringing in 100s of scouts are Area Code(Invite only) and the Top 100-Top 60 PG Nat'l Showcase(Invite Only)

As a parent, I recommend to google any college program in-state or Louisiana. They ALL offer camps to attend for high school kids.
Blinn, Sam Houston, Lamar, Univ La-Lafayette, Northwestern State, and on and on have camps. So as a parent you need to decide, do I pay the $125 to attend a college camp with direct communication with the coaching staff for an entire day or spend $549 for a 2day showcase, or spend the $1000-$1500 for select team fees to travel 10 hrs from home, and for the most part not to be mentioned or seen by a local college coach from here in state or Louisiana.

I will say again, if your an Elite Prospect, you def need to hit the road and play for these tremendous select programs and see how you compare and weigh your talent level against the best nationally. But if you are realistic and realise your an Avg prospect(Can make an impact at Juco or Mid-Major), then stay local, in state and get a voice to make calls for you and get to their camp or get on a select team who plays within this region.

And as Jason stated, I am not in the least bit dis-assembling or rejecting any one select program.
Some have stepped it up and made an impression nationally, by bringing in players from outside the area aiding the locals on the club as well.
I am speaking from my experiences and conversations with local scouts-recruiters, and took a look outside the box and re-evaluated things.
I pulled GTB from the National Scene. Its not worth the financial burden put on families, nor myself.
It basically was a $35,000 per summer recruiting tool for the kids-parents-sponsors involved.

Chris Fackler

[Chester86]

It was a long time ago at Evening Optimist Little League (EOLL) in Beaumont, but Chris was always the man in baseball and I trust what he's saying.  Thanks to you and Jason for giving those of us with kids coming up (10 & 11 year old) sound advice.  It's not falling on deaf ears, and keep on helping those around here that are eager for this type of wisdom.

[643]

Jason and Chris, thanks for trying to get a very important point across, and comming from you SHOULD speak volumes. A cpl of VERY important things you pointed out was getting exposed in the fall before the players senior yr along with the college coaches having a 'bird-dog' in the stands. I also would like to say some out of state schools are abit leary of recruiting players that mite not be comfortable away from home and mamas home cooking, I was told this by a cpl of coaches from Kansas when they saw my son playing in Kansas. I didn't know the colleges are putting on 'prospect camps' now, I went to a cpl of sites of schools my son went to and they do infact have dates listed, things have sure changed since I was a parent in the stands. Thanks for what you 2 are doing and getting the word out. BTW Chester86 I played at EO from 62-66... Walter Moye

[bkatdog]

Another semi local recruiting event ( San Antonio ) that two Jasper players attended recently is the Jimmy Gonzales South Texas Showcase. He is the midwest regional scout for the Washington Nationals and puts this showcase on for a fundraiser for a scout friend that passed away early in life. The event was seen  by about 75 scouts including 15 pro teams, the MLB Scouting Bureau, and many colleges. Many of the pro and college scouts were the same ones seen at a PG event in Dallas this summer. The event was VERY reasonable and went for a good cause. Derek Sowell and Ty Parker both did well and have heard from the scouts since the event. See details at Jimscout.com and prepare for next year. Most of the pitchers were pitch only ( about 15 pitches) and the rest threw for velocity, pop times,60 yard dash and hit 10 or so pitches.  Thanks also to the Umpire  for the hard work and effort put in for the summer all star games at LAMAR that they put on where local players can be seen by scouts both college and pro.

[bedelmon]

Chris IS the man!!

[cleanup13]

First, just wanted to comment on Jason's mention of his mother's scholarship.  My son, Jon Carnahan, applied for the Juliet Tyner Memorial Scholarship when he was graduating in 2008 and was fortunate enough to receive the $1500 scholarship.  It went a long way in paying for his room and board and we were very appreciative.

Second, a parent's prospective of the recruiting process.  We, like many other parents, wanted to give our son the most exposure possible.  I wish I knew then what I know now.  We dragged my poor son to just about any showcase we could afford, Perfect Game being one.  The cost was very expensive (around $575) plus travel expenses to Waco.  There was ONE PG person evaluating over 100 players - no other scouts from colleges or pros.  It was a total waste of time and money.  Most other showcases are moneymakers for the ones holding the showcase.

Okay, a mention about the sun-devils and their instructors, namely JR Bardin.  Jon played on the Sun-Devils team at one point.  The best part of belonging to the sundevils was the access to their instructors.  JR Bardin helped my son in catching and hitting more than anyone who has ever provided instruction outside of high school. We traveled many of miles and in the end-found a school through a not-far-from-home showcase.[img][/img]

Jon attended a McNeese Christmas showcase in his senior year and from that showcase was awarded a full baseball scholarship to Marion Military Institute junior College in Marion Alabama.  Their recruiting coach is a Texas boy and has turned Marion's program around recruiting Texas/Louisiana players.  For the record, Jon will finish up his career at Marion in May, 2010 with an associates degree.  He did great in his freshman season, starting all games and will be the primary catcher for the spring 2010 season. 

After getting several early offers, Jon signed an early letter of intent with Delta State University, a high level Division II school in Cleveland Mississippi, for a 60% ride and waiver of out-of-state fees which are substantial.  Delta is located in Cleveland Mississippi and has a storied baseball program including a National Championship and numerous conference and regional championships.  They have also placed over 50 players in the pro draft over the last 13 years under the current head coach.  Delta is heavily supported by the local community and alumni association.  Jon likened it to Port Neches Groves support of the football team!  One of their Delta scouts saw Jon play at one of Marion's fall games held at Auburn University where he hit a homerun and threwout 4/4 players trying to steal.  Jon chose to sign early after visiting the university - he was very impressed with the facilities, the coaching staff, and the academic opportunity.

I have taken the time to explain Jon's journey to help other parents make decisions about the recruiting process.  Besides the talent level of your child, one of the biggest factors of getting a scholarship is being in the right place at the right time with the right college fit - in other words, especially for position players, make sure you are looking a schools that are in need of filling the position your child plays.  Junior college worked great for Jon - he played in every game  at Marion, both in the fall and in the spring.  Marion also worked hard to get Jon to the next level by playing games in the fall that gave the graduating sophomores good exposure.  Five players on Marion's team have signed early due to this exposure.

I wish you and your child well in the process of recruiting. 

Karen Carnahan

[Mustang11]

Hello all. I just thought that I would my add my thoughts and opinions about this post and some of the comments thereafter. First of all, thanks for bringing this to a forefront about recruiting. I'm sure that the times have changed since we came out Fack, but I do know one fact today and I think that you will attest. I have been an umpire for the area high schools for a while now, and as far as I can see. There have only been two or three kids that have come through that could hang with the district foes that we had in school. I will list just a couple of names from the mid 80's that may bring some awareness to some of you.

Charles McElroy (Lincoln, 1986) - 16 years in the MLB 277 K's (state record) Lefthander - Mid to upper 90's 8th rd. , Phillies
Archie Corbin (BC-P, 1986) - 2 years in the MLB , - Mid to Upper 90's, 14th rd. Mets
Lionel Adams (French, 1985) - Drafted by Atlanta Braves Played three years in Minors.
Jason Woods (WO-S, 1986) - 6'6" Catcher with a hose that could hit em over 400', 14th round Mets
Roderick Robertson (WO-S, 1986) - 3rd round, Phillies
Wade Phillips (WO-S, U of Texas 1986) - Pitcher, mid to upper 90's, 9th rd., Tigers
Xavier Hernandez (TJ,) Houston Astros, Yankees, MLB
Andre Robertson, (WO Chiefs, 1976), 4th rd. Blue Jays, World Series 1981, Yankees

All of these were in the same district except McElroy. My brother Andre paved the way for me, so I was lucky. This is the kind of competition that we had to face on a game by game basis. When I was blessed to be invited to visit the University of Texas, there were a total of 15 people in the dressing room along there with me. Some of the names included were, Chuck Knoblauch, Scott Scudder, Daryl Green, John Byington, etc. (just to name a few). All of these guys signed in the top 5 rounds and most of them played over 8 years in the minor leagues or made it to the show at some point.

So the moral behind the post...as far as a college recruiting your son... IF YOU CAN PLAY, THEY WILL FIND YOU!

Coach Cliff Gustafson watched me play one game. God blessed me to go 4-5 that game and play great defense at short. I didn't even know he was there. He called me a month later and said, "You're a Longhorn, that's if you wanna be." It's the same philosophy in hitting, LUCK and OPPORTUNITY meet at the same time.

My son is in "Select" right now, the reason he is there, is because he loves to play the game. At 11 years old, he does things that I couldn't do. (At least that's what his paw-paw says). But does that mean that will be in the MLB? Of course not. He has to LOVE the game and be blessed by God to stay healthy and injury free and continue to improve. As long as he keeps asking to play, I will be there for him. IF HE CAN PLAY...THEY WILL FIND HIM.

Roderick Robertson

[tombumstead]

Can someone offer some advice for a new player in the area? My son, Ryan Bumstead, is a Junior at Kelly High School. Ryan is new to the Beaumont area. He grew up in Saudi Arabia where I live and work for an oil company. Ryan played in a very competitive LL program here in Saudi and actually played at two Little league World Series as an eleven year old in 2004 and again as a twelve year old in 2005. As a young teen he played on several travel teams at tournaments in Florida, but never with any from this area. We moved Ryan home at the beginning of his sophomore year for academic purposes and so that he could play high school baseball. Ryan pitched for Kelly's varsity as a sophomore and threw a no-hitter in his first varsity start last year. He pitched this past summer for the Gladiators before injuring his arm which required Tommy John surgery. He will now miss his Jr. year of high school baseball and I am concerned that because he is a new face and does not have the name recognition in the area as some of the better ballplayers like Hicks, Felts, Statum, Hester, and Bellows who have grown up in the area and deservedly made very strong names for themselves, he will miss an opportunity to play college ball. As I mentioned before, Ryan suffered an injury that will keep him from playing the all important Jr. year and without previous experience playing in the area, I am afraid he won't get noticed. So my question is this, can someone offer me some advice on how to best get his name out once he returns from TJ rehab? At the time of his injury (end of his sophomore year) he was throwing 86-87, with another years growth and a strong rehab we hope that he comes back throwing even harder. His rehab is progressing nicely and the trainers and doctors all feel that he will make a complete recovery. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[BMTbball09]

Tommy John is generally an 18 month process to get back to 100%.  I'm sorry that it happened, but atleast it happened when it did & he is not missing his senior season.  If he wants to play college baseball, he needs to work harder now than he has ever worked in his life.  I played with many guys that had the surgery.  The hard working guys generally came back 100% and in some cases stronger.  I played with other guys that didn't work as hard & most never got back to the same level.  Fransico Liriano's name comes to mind.  He was the best pitcher in baseball in 2006 with Minnesota (would have won the Rookie of the Year & Cy Young the year he hurt his arm).  He gained 40+ pounds during his rehab & has never even got close to being the same pitcher he once was.

My best advice is to work as hard as the doctors will allow you to do & then get back on the same program you were before the injury.  Find a select team & play as much as you can all over Texas.  He has plenty of time to be seen, but he has to do the work.

Good luck.
Jason Tyner

[tombumstead]

[quote name="BMTbball09" post="760457" timestamp="1266337269"]
Tommy John is generally an 18 month process to get back to 100%.  I'm sorry that it happened, but atleast it happened when it did & he is not missing his senior season.  If he wants to play college baseball, he needs to work harder now than he has ever worked in his life.  I played with many guys that had the surgery.  The hard working guys generally came back 100% and in some cases stronger.  I played with other guys that didn't work as hard & most never got back to the same level.  Fransico Liriano's name comes to mind.  He was the best pitcher in baseball in 2006 with Minnesota (would have won the Rookie of the Year & Cy Young the year he hurt his arm).  He gained 40+ pounds during his rehab & has never even got close to being the same pitcher he once was.

My best advice is to work as hard as the doctors will allow you to do & then get back on the same program you were before the injury.  Find a select team & play as much as you can all over Texas.  He has plenty of time to be seen, but he has to do the work.

Good luck.
Jason Tyner
[/quote]

Sound advice and means a lot coming from someone of your stature. Thanks, Tommy

[AJ25]

There is nothing I can say better than what Jason already has.. that is terrific advice

All I can say is DO NOT rush coming back, that could ruin his career. Do everything at the pace the doctor says to do, they've dealt with the injury before and have experience with it, you don't. Just take your time and work as hard as you can. Trust me, there is a place for him in college baseball if he wants it bad enough.