Select Baseball effect on High School Baseball

[DogOne]

I don't know about the effect of select ball on high school baseball specifically but I do know "select" teams have already had a huge impact on school athletics and this impact is only going to increase with time.  With the exception of football, most colleges recruit athletes based on their select, AAU, club teams, etc.  This is definitely the case in basketball, softball, tennis, soccer, golf and volleyball and I suspect baseball is heading that way.  For better or worse, high school sports, except for football, are slowly but surely being pushed aside by select programs.  I don't know if this is good or bad but I suspect we're going to have to get used to it.

[bmtball]

Stang78.  Thank you for the post.  And you are right, this post is about the effect of select on high school baseball.  I was simply trying to dispell some of the inaccuracies of your post.  Let me highlight a few more from your most recent post.

First of all, I am an unpaid participant.  In fact, I spent a large amount of my own money to get this organization up and running.  I have a Board of Directors, all of whom are unpaid.  We, as volunteers, hire and pay coaches.  We, as volunteers, spearhead all fundraising events, schedule all practices, and book all tournaments.  We have six teams we do this for.

As for grades, we want the kids to focus on their study habits.  If a kid is unable to make passing grades, we will suspend him until he gets his grades up.  Period.  Doesn't matter if it is my kid, or the best player in the league.  A policy is a policy.  If we didn't, what good would be doing the kid to let him flounder around academically?  We are not about wins and losses.  As I stated before, I could care less if we win a tournament of not.  All I want to do is give our area kids the opportunity to improve their game, within a team setting.  In the grand scheme of things, we operate on a $15,000 per month budget.  Do you really think $100 matters to us?

As for our coaches and their coaching kids who have signed scholarships, are you nuts?  Morgan Walker coached a group of 14U Gladiators about 4 years ago, that included Kirby Bellows, Statum, Felts.  Any names ring a bell there?  Sam Moore has personally trained Matt Hicks for a long time.  Name ring a bell?  Just a few examples, there are many more.  Also, the main job of our coaches is not to get players full scholarships.  No one can do that for a player.  An organization places a player in the situation to be seen by a college by the tournaments it enters.  The player earns any scholarship, not the coach or organization.  Our coaches are expected to better prepare our kids for the next level, whatever that may be.  Period.  Sam and Morgan have been coaching select the longest, along with Chris Fackler.  All three of these guys have trained players who made it to the next level (D1/Juco, etc.)  But you will not hear them beating their chests claiming to have been the reason these kids got their scholarships.  That's not who they are.  The kids know these guys helped them along the way, which is why these guys are invited to signing parties annually. 

Look, I am not here to down grade high school programs, simply to defend the assertions made about select.  Select baseball plays a very important role in the development of baseball players here and across the country.  Our summer teams consistently play teams that have at least one D1 prospect and a handfull of Juco prospects. Our players consistently face pitching in select tournaments that they rarely see here at the high school level.  You make valid points about the amount of time dedicated by a number of local high school coaches.  I don't think this should be viewed as a select vs. high school, since both add to the development of a player.  You make good points about a high school coaches duties.  But no one is putting down high school coaches.  I am simply stating that select ball isn't this monstrosity that you indicate it to be.  In fact coach Rojas at WOS and coach Green from Vidor are very good summer select coaches and VERY good high school coaches.  I don't think this should be a discussion about select vs,. high school coaches.  I will admit to you, the area has very good high school coaches.  But we have very good select coaches too.

I haven't done a study on this, but it would be interesting.  How many of the recent JUCO D1/D2/D3 signess actually played select ball.  I bet the numbers would clearly confirm that select played an important role in the development of these players.  But it isn't the only source of development.  As they say, it takes a village to raise a child.....

[643]

Just because a player is on a select team don't mean squat AND just because a guy has a job of being a HS coach dont meen squat either, if I were a HS coach I would love to have a team with a few players that were coached by Ex college or MLB players>>how can that be a bad thing. I will agree just because a kid played select ball don't make him any better BUT I too think its the coaching some recieve on some of these select teams that does make them better NO DOUGHT ABOUT IT. You Nay sayers need to do a little research and see just how many Ex Pro players sons are now college or MLB players, could the reason be the coaches (dads) knew exactly what it takes and how to get there...and I'm fairly sure their HS coaches were glad to get them...

[hfaninthestands]

dumb threads are dumb

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="643" post="731255" timestamp="1260966221"]
Just because a player is on a select team don't mean squat AND just because a guy has a job of being a HS coach dont meen squat either, if I were a HS coach I would love to have a team with a few players that were coached by Ex college or MLB players>>how can that be a bad thing. I will agree just because a kid played select ball don't make him any better BUT I too think its the coaching some recieve on some of these select teams that does make them better NO DOUGHT ABOUT IT. You Nay sayers need to do a little research and see just how many Ex Pro players sons are now college or MLB players, could the reason be the coaches (dads) knew exactly what it takes and how to get there...and I'm fairly sure their HS coaches were glad to get them...
[/quote]

Thank you....for 78Stang has completely lost me.

[MIF04]

Having been out of town for the past 6 weeks, I only now have seen the “How does select impact HS baseball” thread.  An interesting topic to say the least…

It probably comes as no surprise that I fall in the “select has a positive impact” camp.  The reasons have been well discussed here but I will add my thoughts:

1. The UIL limits the time that a HS baseball coach can spend being, well, a HS baseball coach.  That leaves a wide gap in which to provide the player teaching, reps, and game experience.  Select baseball provides that avenue.  Simply taking lessons (without anything more) only provides part of that ‘gap filler’.  The player needs more than being in a cage, taking hacks for 45 minutes.  It needs to be put into action.  Games do that.

2. What HS coach wouldn’t want his players to get more teaching, more experience, more game time?  If his players get better, it makes the HS team better, and so on and so forth.  In fact, our experience tells us that the HS coaches are grateful for the select baseball experience, and they encourage it.  Many HS coaches (within the parameters of UIL regulations) work for select organizations.  Those that have sons put them in off-season select baseball.  If select baseball was a negative, do you really think the HS coaches would support it?

3. A select team is designed to create competition:  both inward and outward.  With a team of ‘select players’, the competition for playing time increases.  With that, a higher level of performance is required.  Second, you play against a higher grade of competition on a more consistent basis.  Again, this creates better (and more confident) players.  While this not only helps the individual player, it also inures to the benefit of the HS team.

4. Select baseball is not a substitute for HS baseball.  I never saw my son ‘cry’ over the loss of a select game…but I have seen tears over the loss of a HS game.  The pride in playing for your school can simply never be duplicated.  While select baseball may appeal to the ‘mind’ of the player, it will never win over the ‘heart’.

5. The contention that the select players return to the HS team as ‘prima donnas’ is contrary to our experience as well.  In fact, the opposite has been true.  These players return and are the team leaders.  Plus, I take issue with the idea that select players are ‘given’ a position.  I think that insults the integrity of the HS coaches that, in SE Texas, is a very accomplished group of coaches. 

6. Select baseball supplements a lot of what HS coaches do.  Besides the additional teaching and playing, it also provides assistance is seeking out college opportunities, scholarships, etc.  We take some credit for that but, also, recognize that (on signing day) it’s the parents and HS coach in the picture. 

There are probably other areas of select baseball (in all its forms) that are open to legitimate debate.  Whether it helps HS baseball is not one of them. 

[EAGLE07]

MIF,

Great post. I think you nailed it on the head w/ #4.

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="EAGLE07" post="731517" timestamp="1260989294"]
MIF,

Great post. I think you nailed it on the head w/ #4.
[/quote]

#4 is spot on.

[hitman009]

these are all great posts......And I agree with most of it.....
At the [b]High School level [/b] I could see letting my son play for a select team but would have to have a great coach....like Fackler.....extra cuts and [b]quality[/[b]b] instruction[/b] are important..........and eveyone wants the best for their kid.....
but it is not the freshman-Sr that select has a impact on.......

Its the lower levels......9-14 year olds...
we are losing kids at that age because of select.... every town wants to have a select team which is making the litlle league teams shut down..... kids are quiting at to young of a age because they don't have a place to play because a lot of the "chosen" kids are playing select.....this cuts down on numbers and then their is not enough to start a league.

Now some of these coaches are starting to persuade the parents to play select year round.. this means no high school ball...  this could destroy high school ball....

[westend1]

i think the impact on high school ball has been minimal.  Select really hit the scene about 10 years ago, for this area.  In those ten years, it sems the same programs who were good, are still good, about the same number of kids seem to go on to play college ball, and the number of kids drafted doesn't seem to have changed much.  I believe the high schools are getting better polished players at an earlier age, but the varsity teams don't look much different than they did 10 years ago.  JMO

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="hitman009" post="732640" timestamp="1261157721"]
these are all great posts......And I agree with most of it.....
At the [b]High School level [/b] I could see letting my son play for a select team but would have to have a great coach....like Fackler.....extra cuts and [b]quality[/[b]b] instruction[/b] are important..........and eveyone wants the best for their kid.....
but it is not the freshman-Sr that select has a impact on.......

Its the lower levels......9-14 year olds...
we are losing kids at that age because of select.... every town wants to have a select team which is making the litlle league teams shut down..... kids are quiting at to young of a age because they don't have a place to play because a lot of the "chosen" kids are playing select.....this cuts down on numbers and then their is not enough to start a league.

Now some of these coaches are starting to persuade the parents to play select year round.. this means no high school ball...  this could destroy high school ball....

[/quote]

I agree w/ you Hitman that select is hurting the younger ages, especially Little League. I, however, have always been against kids playing select ball before age 13 or 14. At that age most kids have several interests and need to explore and pursue them all. They need to grow in other areas. 
I do not think select will hurt high school ball. Every select team and coach that I've been around makes it very clear that your high school team comes first.

[78Stang]

One comment. Why not move this topic over to the Select/Babe Ruth/Little Leauge Forum? It is obvious to me that most if not all of the posters on the subject have motives and are are pro-select. To be honest, frankly my dear I dont give a damn. This forum is "[u]HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL[/u]". Last thought, the post which has #4 being discussed. That says it all, the High school teams matter. Select teams do not matter to a high school baseball player. All that select teams are about is to live out a dad or moms dream and to make some wanna be, has been coach money while that dream lives. I have seen it too many times!

[GingerSnap]

[quote name="78Stang" post="733627" timestamp="1261329093"]
...All that select teams are about is to live out a dad or moms dream and to make some wanna be, has been coach money while that dream lives. I have seen it too many times!
[/quote]
You are SO WRONG in that statement.  My dream is to have a happy, well adjusted son that has all the opportunities to make himself a better person.  His choice is to play ball year round, not mine.  I'd much rather him focus his career toward pre-med ... That would make ME happy.  :)

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="78Stang" post="733627" timestamp="1261329093"]
One comment. Why not move this topic over to the Select/Babe Ruth/Little Leauge Forum? It is obvious to me that most if not all of the posters on the subject have motives and are are pro-select. To be honest, frankly my dear I dont give a dang. This forum is "[u]HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL[/u]". Last thought, the post which has #4 being discussed. That says it all, the High school teams matter. Select teams do not matter to a high school baseball player. All that select teams are about is to live out a dad or moms dream and to make some wanna be, has been coach money while that dream lives. I have seen it too many times!
[/quote]

You or your son has obviously had a bad experience w/ select ball..that's unfortunate.

[MIF04]

[quote name="78Stang" post="733627" timestamp="1261329093"]
One comment. Why not move this topic over to the Select/Babe Ruth/Little Leauge Forum? It is obvious to me that most if not all of the posters on the subject have motives and are are pro-select. To be honest, frankly my dear I dont give a dang. This forum is "[u]HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL[/u]". Last thought, the post which has #4 being discussed. That says it all, the High school teams matter. Select teams do not matter to a high school baseball player. All that select teams are about is to live out a dad or moms dream and to make some wanna be, has been coach money while that dream lives. I have seen it too many times!
[/quote]

Since I wrote #4, I would prefer to be accurately quoted.  The full text was that select has the mind but HS has the heart.  Select teams matter very much to the HS player (and, whether 78Stang likes it or not) to the HS coach.  Those players choose select to (a) improve and (b) open doors beyond the HS experience.  I am not sure what 78Stang has "seen too many times", but he is obviously looking in the wrong places.

On another topic, I agree that select at the younger ages poses different issues than at older ages.  We stayed in the local league thru Little League and wouldn't do it any other way.  That experience was wonderful.  In Beaumont, there was no true alternative beginning at age 13 so we went the select route...a choice that not only I do not regret but one that was, by far, the best for my son. 

By the way, we are only 6 weeks or so from the best time of all:  practice starts !!!!

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="MIF04" post="733960" timestamp="1261427413"]
[quote author=78Stang link=topic=62918.msg733627#msg733627 date=1261329093]
One comment. Why not move this topic over to the Select/Babe Ruth/Little Leauge Forum? It is obvious to me that most if not all of the posters on the subject have motives and are are pro-select. To be honest, frankly my dear I dont give a dang. This forum is "[u]HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL[/u]". Last thought, the post which has #4 being discussed. That says it all, the High school teams matter. Select teams do not matter to a high school baseball player. All that select teams are about is to live out a dad or moms dream and to make some wanna be, has been coach money while that dream lives. I have seen it too many times!
[/quote]

Since I wrote #4, I would prefer to be accurately quoted.  The full text was that select has the mind but HS has the heart.  Select teams matter very much to the HS player (and, whether 78Stang likes it or not) to the HS coach.  Those players choose select to (a) improve and (b) open doors beyond the HS experience.  I am not sure what 78Stang has "seen too many times", but he is obviously looking in the wrong places.

On another topic, I agree that select at the younger ages poses different issues than at older ages.  We stayed in the local league thru Little League and wouldn't do it any other way.  That experience was wonderful.  In Beaumont, there was no true alternative beginning at age 13 so we went the select route...a choice that not only I do not regret but one that was, by far, the best for my son.   

By the way, we are only 6 weeks or so from the best time of all:  practice starts !!!!


[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Not sure what Stang has seen too many times, either.....I have  a pretty good idea what this is all about.
Keep up the good work that you guys do. Merry Christmas to you Mif and Matt and the rest of the gang.