The Myth of the Athletic Baseball Scholarship

[hitman009]

[b]For those who think their child might get a baseball athletic scholarship should read this:[/b]

The Myth of the Athletic Scholarship


ASA News
OFFLINE By JOHN MILLEA, Star Tribune

Kevin Kray's dream was coming true. The Osseo High School senior wanted to play baseball at the University of Minnesota, and his parents wanted to hear the words that all parents of college-bound athletes dream of: We are offering your child a free education.

"When somebody comes and says they're interested in your son, you think, 'Hey, maybe he can get a full ride,' " said Ann Kray, Kevin's mother.

Kevin is the oldest of Ann and Dana Kray's three children, and the family had no prior experience with the mysterious world of college athletic scholarships. The family had assumed, as many people do, that full rides are commonplace.

"I don't come from a family with a lot of money, and I was hoping the U would be able to help me out," Kevin Kray said.

Said Ann Kray: "It's kind of like people's wages, you don't hear people discuss it. In the back of your mind you maybe think they got a full ride. At least that's your perception."

Like it does for countless families, though, perception turned into a much different reality for the Krays. Full scholarships are rare in many college sports, and the realities of the scholarship world are just as elusive as the scholarships themselves. But this much is certain: A precious few high school athletes are rewarded with college scholarships each year.

The numbers don't lie:

• For every 100 high school athletes, there is one full athletic scholarship available.

• More than 60 percent of all NCAA athletes receive no athletic scholarship aid. This includes Division III, which does not give out athletic aid.

• The average NCAA athlete on scholarship gets, per year, about $10,000 less than the value of a full scholarship.

Minnesota offered Kevin Kray a scholarship that would cover less than half the cost of a year's education -- a total that is about $19,000 at the U of M, including room, board and books. He accepted, knowing that the size of his scholarship can be increased in the future, depending on his pitching performance.

"We had to kind of take a step back," Ann Kray said. "At first we thought, 'Wow, you don't get full rides, huh?' Initially he had the dream of being able to get college paid for through athletics. It's kind of a bummer, you work just as hard and train just as hard, but there's not as much money for sports like baseball."

Think about that the next time you hear of high schools holding signing-day ceremonies, when top athletes put pen to paper and agree to accept college scholarships in front of television and newspapers cameras, proud parents and envious classmates. Because it's likely that most of those young athletes are receiving a very small slice of the scholarship pie.

"They invest all this money to get potentially 25 to 33 percent of a scholarship," Gophers baseball coach John Anderson said. "I shake my head a little bit and think, 'You're better off taking that money and putting it in the bank.' People are a little bit shocked by how little aid we have. If you get 30 to 40 percent of a full ride, you're doing pretty good."

The myth of money

Like most college sports, baseball doesn't have nearly enough scholarships to give everybody a full ride. [b]The NCAA Division I baseball limit is 11.7 full rides[/b], which Anderson tries to split up over a roster that can have [b]35 players[/b]. Men's tennis has only 4.5 scholarships, wrestling 9.9, softball 12 and cross-country/track and field has 12.6 for men and 18 for women.

Those are some of the "equivalency" sports, which generally spread small amounts of scholarship money throughout the roster. Athletes in such sports, like track and field, are considered to be "on scholarship" even though they are likely getting a very small percentage of their school paid for and footing the bill for the rest out of pocket.

Then there are the Division I "head count" sports -- football, men's and women's basketball, women's volleyball, women's tennis and women's gymnastics. That designation means every athlete receiving a scholarship in those sports gets a full ride.

"There is so much misinformation out there. And the biggest one is that full rides grow on trees," said Phil Lundin, the longtime Gophers men's track coach who this year became men's track and cross-country coach at Division III St. Olaf College. Lundin said he felt like a Robin Hood figure when breaking up scholarships for his track team, which averaged 60 athletes in his 13 years as Gophers coach.

"One year we had close to 50 on some form of athletic aid," he said. "I sliced that pie so thin you wouldn't have believed it. But everybody got a little bit."

Very few of Lundin's athletes received a full ride. Many more got what are called "starter" or "book" scholarships, usually enough aid to pay for books and little else.

Even fewer scholarships are available on the Division II level. Scholarship athletes in D-II receive, on average, $6,000 a year -- less than half of the $14,000 those at the D-I level get. The Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference, comprised primarily of Division II schools in Minnesota, allows its football programs to offer only 24 scholarships while the NCAA permits D-II schools to offer up to 36. Even so, NSIC member Minnesota Duluth won the D-II national championship game Saturday. The D-I Gophers, by contrast, give out 85 football scholarships.

The NCAA allows no athletic aid on the Division III level, although that doesn't mean some D-III colleges don't find ways to help their top athletes. One way is by awarding "leadership" scholarships to athletes who have displayed some form of leadership, even if it was just being a class officer in high school.

Talking about money creates an uneasy dynamic between coaches, players and their families. It's a process coaches often go into with feelings of dread -- a sentiment families soon share.

"I think the hardest thing in our business is you have to put a value on somebody," said Anderson, the Gophers baseball coach. "Somebody will say, 'How come you think I'm worth 25 [percent of a scholarship] and so-and-so [at another college] says I'm worth 55?' That's the most demeaning part of my job, having to put a value on a player. It's not that you don't like them as a player. You want them in your program, but 'here are our limitations.' People have a hard time with that."

Myth: Athletes have it easy

For all the athletes who land full rides and have a great college experience, there are many stories that go wildly off script. Some athletes are promised a scholarship, only to see it yanked because of a coaching change or other reasons. Some start at the Division I level but are overwhelmed by the total commitment that is necessary, the 16-hour days of practice, training, meetings, classes and mandatory study halls, which leave room for nothing else, not even a social life.

Gophers football player Ned Tavale, a junior from Cretin-Derham Hall, said coaches joked about "signing my life over to them," but the reality is it isn't far from the truth. Some overwhelmed Division I athletes transfer to Division II or III schools, hoping to strike a greater balance in their lives. The trade-off is giving up a dream of playing at the highest level for the overall college experience.

Money also is a factor. Former Wayzata football player Tommy Becker left the University of Minnesota, where he was receiving a full ride, for D-III St. Thomas and no athletic aid. He hesitated about leaving his full ride behind, "but I was unhappy and I didn't want to cheat the Gophers out of a scholarship by not being committed," he said.

Mike Moberg played basketball at Maple Grove and accepted a scholarship at Division I Niagara (N.Y.) University even though he said he "didn't have a huge passion" for the D-I level but didn't want to pass up the opportunity.

"When you're recruited by D-I schools, people kind of expect you to go D-I," said Moberg, who left the Niagara team after the first seven games of his freshman year and now plays basketball at Division III Bethel. "If you're not all the way in, you're not going to make it," he said of the Division I athletic environment.

The myth perpetuated

Bill Maresh, father of two sons who received football scholarships -- Mike is a senior at North Dakota State and Sam had his career with the Gophers put on hold by heart surgery this summer -- said the biggest lesson his family learned was that questions must be asked.

"We kind of learned as we went, and we tried to ask the right questions," he said. "Any question you have, you've got to be able to ask. 'What about books?' 'How's housing work out?' A lot of people are nervous about asking the questions."

Lynn Otto, who visited Division I, II and III colleges with her three sons from Hill-Murray -- two are now at Bethel and one goes to Stanford -- offered this warning: "The key is coaches. You never know. They talk a good talk."

But some parents -- many who have paid tens of thousands of dollars for training sessions, camps, clinics, and teams that travel the country -- would rather believe a lie than accept a tougher truth.

That's part of the reason scholarship myths still exist.

In the late 1990s, when Dan O'Brien was the football coach at Concordia (St. Paul), it was an NAIA institution that did not award athletic scholarships. O'Brien, now Gophers director of football operations, had sent a few recruiting letters to players in Texas and one of them, from Houston, wanted to come to Concordia. But he and his parents also wanted a scholarship. What followed was an elaborate ruse.

The player's parents paid for O'Brien to fly in for the signing-day ceremony. Before leaving for Houston, O'Brien went to the Concordia bookstore and purchased a cap that would rest on the table in front of the young man as he signed.

But the fact remained that the Golden Bears did not offer scholarships, so O'Brien had no document for the player to sign. The solution? O'Brien asked the secretary in his football office to create an official-looking "letter of intent."

And on signing day, the future Concordia player and his fellow college-bound classmates were celebrities. Parents, grandparents and other relatives were on hand, the local newspaper took photos and pride was abundant. Only a few people knew that one of the kids was signing a piece of paper that meant absolutely nothing.

But everybody smiled.

[EAGLE07]

'JR" better be special.  ;) or at least left-handed.  ;) Only looking for one of the 11.7 full ones. All 11.7 of them will be going to somebody.

[MMSLB]

I hope most parents of baseball players around here understand that. But that is good info for people who don't know. When Beau Hale got a full ride to UT, he was the first UT player to get a full ride in years.

[PhatMack19]

That's why a lot of very good players go the JUCO route.  They can give out 24 scholarships and all are full rides.  Also if the kid works as hard in the class as he does on the field, academic scholarships can pick up the rest of the tab.


Or you could move to Louisiana and the state will pick up the difference --      http://www.osfa.state.la.us/schgrt6.htm


More info
http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/how_many_scholarships.htm

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="PhatMack19" post="722738" timestamp="1259819322"]
That's why a lot of very good players go the JUCO route.  They can give out 24 scholarships and all are full rides.  Also if the kid works as hard in the class as he does on the field, academic scholarships can pick up the rest of the tab.


Or you could move to Louisiana and the state will pick up the difference --      http://www.osfa.state.la.us/schgrt6.htm


More info
http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/how_many_scholarships.htm
[/quote]

Many valid reasons to go JUCO..
Main reason top teir players are in JUCO is to go thru the draft process in the next year.....not three years later.
Very,very solid baseball in JUCO...especially(sic)  in Texas/Calif/Fla.

[AJ25]

As a present Juco player who has been courted by schools from every different level (DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, and Juco) I've learned quite a bit. And for parents it's going to sound bad, but coaches will tell you whatever you want to hear. They're just like car salesmen in some cases. They all have good intensions, but they're going to say what makes you happy because they know that come August it's just them and the player. Juco is a great route to go though. D1 talent EVERYWHERE. As a hitter, you'll face pitchers that have or will be drafted, or are committed to DI schools. Same for pitchers facing that level of hitters. The amount of big scholarships are much more present, like Phatmack said. DI level, full rides are non existent for the most part. DII as well. If you can get a full ride at a DII, you should be playing DI, so they are pretty non existent. And DIII can be a solid route as well. Talent level not quite as much, but there is LOADS of academic aid available at DIII's because of the fact most are private schools. This is some good info for the parents of possible college ball players.

[CoachBrown]

Ron Polk(former Miss. State coach) used to bash the NCAA every time he spoke because he felt that the way scholarships were awarded was unfair.

This is all the more reason to make good grades in school. A school would much rather recruit a player who they can offer an academic scholarship to or combine it with an athletic scholarship to help cover there fees. Parents should make this clear with their child when they enter high school that if they do well all four years of high school, it can greatly improve their chances of playing at the next level.

[MMSLB]

Very good points and advice by all!!

[cleanup13]

Outside scholarships are a great help.  Even though my son received a full ride to a juco in Alabama that covered tuition, books and out-of-state fees (which are enormous), we still had to come up with room and board.  My son received the Juliet Tyner Memorial scholarship, the TCP engineering scholarship and a local PNG baseball scholarship.  My son worked hard both on the field and off the field and it paid off.  It only cost us a total of $1400 for two years at a great school and an associates degree in science.

My son signed a letter of intent at a DII school and received a 60% offer with a waiver of out of state fees which we felt was a great deal.

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="CoachBrown" post="722787" timestamp="1259848530"]
Ron Polk(former Miss. State coach) used to bash the NCAA every time he spoke because he felt that the way scholarships were awarded was unfair.

This is all the more reason to make good grades in school. A school would much rather recruit a player who they can offer an academic scholarship to or combine it with an athletic scholarship to help cover there fees. Parents should make this clear with their child when they enter high school that if they do well all four years of high school, it can greatly improve their chances of playing at the next level.
[/quote]

Excellent advice, coach.

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="CoachBrown" post="722787" timestamp="1259848530"]
Ron Polk(former Miss. State coach) used to bash the NCAA every time he spoke because he felt that the way scholarships were awarded was unfair.

This is all the more reason to make good grades in school. A school would much rather recruit a player who they can offer an academic scholarship to or combine it with an athletic scholarship to help cover there fees. Parents should make this clear with their child when they enter high school that if they do well all four years of high school, it can greatly improve their chances of playing at the next level.
[/quote]

You need to hit the books as often as you hit the baseball. Make sure Little Johnny sets the tone starting in 9th grade in the classroom. You may not think that coaches would care about 9th grade English, but they are going to look at the entire photo album, not just a snapshot.

[Tallboi]

[quote name="GCMPats" post="722878" timestamp="1259856890"]
[quote author=CoachBrown link=topic=63290.msg722787#msg722787 date=1259848530]
Ron Polk(former Miss. State coach) used to bash the NCAA every time he spoke because he felt that the way scholarships were awarded was unfair.

This is all the more reason to make good grades in school. A school would much rather recruit a player who they can offer an academic scholarship to or combine it with an athletic scholarship to help cover there fees. Parents should make this clear with their child when they enter high school that if they do well all four years of high school, it can greatly improve their chances of playing at the next level.
[/quote]

You need to hit the books as often as you hit the baseball. Make sure Little Johnny sets the tone starting in 9th grade in the classroom. You may not think that coaches would care about 9th grade English, but they are going to look at the entire photo album, not just a snapshot.
[/quote]

This is all so true.....

[AJ25]

In most cases, you can actually get more money from an academic scholarship at a DI school than you can an athletic scholarship. Kids really need to focus on their grades very early on.

[NHS83LU87]

[quote name="AJ25" post="723149" timestamp="1259878249"]
In most cases, you can actually get more money from an academic scholarship at a DI school than you can an athletic scholarship. Kids really need to focus on their grades very early on.
[/quote]

Very true!  Even at a JUCO you don't necessarily get a full ride.  I believe Josh Dean got 50% from Blinn.....Jordan Pitts received an offer from a JUCO but it couldn't match what he has academically from McNeese.  As a parent that academic money makes a difference, so do not minimize the importance of grades.  Also take the SAT/ACT early and several times.  Most students improve each time.  There is also the added benefit:  if you get an academic scholarship all you have to do is maintain the GPA whil athletic scholarships are a year at a time meaning you may not keep it or it may be lowered due to injury, poor play, better player coming in....  A players goal should be, like Jordan and Jude Vidrine, to have the option of going on either an athletic or academic scholarship.  It just increases oportunity.

[643]

Some kids are NOT scholars, if not for BB I would have had to pay some serious $$$$, although mine was recruited and signed early with Lamar in 98 he elected to go the JUCO route, he/we have not regretted going that route, you will find most JUCOs are in a small town inviroment and easy to fit in, some are indeed Baseball factories. Some how mine even got a scholarship for summer school, I asked no question and got no lies... 

[hitman009]

[quote name="643" post="723588" timestamp="1259946370"]
Some kids are NOT scholars, if not for BB I would have had to pay some serious $$$$, although mine was recruited and signed early with Lamar in 98 he elected to go the JUCO route, he/we have not regretted going that route, you will find most JUCOs are in a small town inviroment and easy to fit in, some are indeed Baseball factories. Some how mine even got a scholarship for summer school, I asked no question and got no lies...  
[/quote]????? he signed with Lamar?? Lamar is a D1..... Or was he recruited by Lamar and turned them down and went JUCO???   Lamar does not offer many scholarships to SETX.  If Gilligan did, he would have a better team then he already has....... He expects these kids to come scholarship free....... He is obsessed on getting kids from NY (where he is from) and Australia (go scouting trip right paid by school).
In one case, told a kid from Hardin Jefferson that he was no good and could not play at a D1 level. The kid went JUCO and was all conference, then got a full ride to Mc Neese and was their #1 pitcher for a couple years, then was drafted as a #1 pick in simi pro and played up north for a couple of years.  Gilligan was pissed at the JUCO coach did not send him back and would not send him any more players.  This kid went and tried out, Gilligan did not send him there........ Don't understand him at all.........

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="hitman009" post="723602" timestamp="1259947411"]
[quote author=643 link=topic=63290.msg723588#msg723588 date=1259946370]
Some kids are NOT scholars, if not for BB I would have had to pay some serious $$$$, although mine was recruited and signed early with Lamar in 98 he elected to go the JUCO route, he/we have not regretted going that route, you will find most JUCOs are in a small town inviroment and easy to fit in, some are indeed Baseball factories. Some how mine even got a scholarship for summer school, I asked no question and got no lies... 
[/quote[b]]????? he signed with Lamar?? Lamar is a D1..... Or was he recruited by Lamar and turned them down and went JUCO???  [/b] Lamar does not offer many scholarships to SETX.  If Gilligan did, he would have a better team then he already has....... He expects these kids to come scholarship free....... He is obsessed on getting kids from NY (where he is from) and Australia (go scouting trip right paid by school).
In one case, told a kid from Hardin Jefferson that he was no good and could not play at a D1 level. The kid went JUCO and was all conference, then got a full ride to Mc Neese and was their #1 pitcher for a couple years, then was drafted as a #1 pick in simi pro and played up north for a couple of years.  Gilligan was pissed at the JUCO coach did not send him back and would not send him any more players.  This kid went and tried out, Gilligan did not send him there........ Don't understand him at all.........
Maybe someone could tell him when you see him drinking it up on the town!!!!!!!
[/quote]

You can sign a letter of intent for D1 and then decide to go JUCO.

[NHS83LU87]

[quote name="643" post="723588" timestamp="1259946370"]
Some kids are NOT scholars, if not for BB I would have had to pay some serious $$$$, although mine was recruited and signed early with Lamar in 98 he elected to go the JUCO route, he/we have not regretted going that route, you will find most JUCOs are in a small town inviroment and easy to fit in, some are indeed Baseball factories. Some how mine even got a scholarship for summer school, I asked no question and got no lies... 
[/quote]

Your exactly right not all players are scholars but those that are and/or those that could be with a little more effort, need to know the realities of what is available.  If a player is a good student, they should apply for scholarships at several colleges in the Fall of their senior year.  You could end up with several academic offers from which to choose. 

[GTBBaseball]

Hitman,

You point out some things that may have changed at LU and your possibly not aware.
Out of the 35men he has in that locker room, 18 are locals, thats over 50%....Even one of the coaches is a local, Matt Gore LCM.
The weekend rotation will be all three from our area(Harrington-PNG / Smith-Nederland / Dzedzich Atoscocsita), the 3 starting middle infielders(Bunner Vidor / Theriot Lake Charles / Vidrine Nederland) are locals, not counting the bullpen depth of locals(Morse HJ, Henderson Kelly, McInnis PNG). Im pretty sure Two of the young men on roster are HJ guys.

Maybe its just an oversight on your side and you can take some time to forgive-forget the past to see some changes made at Lamar with recruiting.

The indifferences about his recruiting philosophy may be of opinion and noteworthy, but personal attacking Coach isnt necessary is it?
Just a respected suggestion, At least Sign Your Personal Name....

Also out of curiosity, you say McNeese's #1 arm from HJ, I been around MSU since 85, wondering what arm was McNeese #1 from HJ? McKeller did really good things there as well as Ben Broussard who we coached at 15-17 and signed at MSU. Bens numbers were sick at MSU, an amazing 2 seasons he had under Bianco.
McKeller we helped after 1yr off a redshirt year at Lamar and Mac would be the first to say he needed the mental side developed which he got at Angelina. Both kids were in need, coming out of HJ, the first 24months or so with learning the grind & speed of the game, then both became very, very solid impact guys. . .Who is this kid you mention?
Also, there isnt a Semi-pro draft, I believe you meant Independent ball, which means no affiliation with a MLB club, and yet there isnt a draft there neither, its a free-for-all free agent signings. So being a #1 draft pick in semi pro ball is baffling me at the moment.
Try this website for its informative to people to learn on Independent baseball, a route Kevin Millar took after Lamar. [u]www.independentbaseball.net [/u]

Anyways,

I would like to see this initial post/topic you began stay on path, its been really good stuff!

This Topic has been informative for many parents and kids and I hope continues to include others experiences and channels what they went through to get their son in a college uniform.

Its been one of the better post for kids and parents to read on the SETx Site, and its fantastic to see so many understand certain aspects of the internal/business/academic aspects of the game. Ill say, these comments by parents are right on par and they are given these parents coming up and kids coming up the right information from what I have read thus far.

Now to your question, players can, what we term "double-sign", meaning sign with a Juco and D1-or-2 program, meaning sign with one then opt out for the other with no penalties.



Chris Fackler

[rounder17]

[quote name="hitman009" post="723602" timestamp="1259947411"]
[quote author=643 link=topic=63290.msg723588#msg723588 date=1259946370]
Some kids are NOT scholars, if not for BB I would have had to pay some serious $$$$, although mine was recruited and signed early with Lamar in 98 he elected to go the JUCO route, he/we have not regretted going that route, you will find most JUCOs are in a small town inviroment and easy to fit in, some are indeed Baseball factories. Some how mine even got a scholarship for summer school, I asked no question and got no lies...  
[/quote]????? he signed with Lamar?? Lamar is a D1..... Or was he recruited by Lamar and turned them down and went JUCO???   Lamar does not offer many scholarships to SETX.  If Gilligan did, he would have a better team then he already has....... He expects these kids to come scholarship free....... He is obsessed on getting kids from NY (where he is from) and Australia (go scouting trip right paid by school).
In one case, told a kid from Hardin Jefferson that he was no good and could not play at a D1 level. The kid went JUCO and was all conference, then got a full ride to Mc Neese and was their #1 pitcher for a couple years, then was drafted as a #1 pick in simi pro and played up north for a couple of years.  Gilligan was pissed at the JUCO coach did not send him back and would not send him any more players.  This kid went and tried out, Gilligan did not send him there........ Don't understand him at all.........

[/quote]
Who are you talking about? There has never been a #1 pick out H J.

[GTBBaseball]

Ben Broussard was a supplemental round draft pick in 99 by Cincy, a "Senior Sign" after MSU, not out of high school.
Ben suited up 5yrs with Cleveland, 2yrs with Seattle, and 1yr with the Rangers.... also signed a 'AAA' contracts with Cubs, Yankees, and believe this past season with the White-Sox.

And now a rising star in the music industry, who has his 2nd CD out, check his site at www.benbroussard.com

Fackler

[Bears]

Nice Post Coach Fackler...

Now on the subject I can help, my son has played D1, JUCO and now NAIA, so We have some experience with the scholarship thing...D1 11.7 is correct and usually the big offers go to pitchers and the rest split pieces of the remaining money, our case 30% at the D1 and that is good, now when it comes to playing out of state the college coach does have some ability to wave the out of state portion, The new rules of only 35 and at least a 25% offer does effect alot of programs. JUCO we did get the full ride offer and it paid for everything but meals which at a JUCO is around 1600.00 a semester. but there was 50 plus players in the fall, so there were a bunch of invitations to walk on.

NAIA has the ability to offer 12 scholarships but sometimes do not have the financial ability so they only offer a few, but they are allowed 12. D2 offers only 9.

Again on the juco and d1 your talking 35 plus players so a little money has to go a long way, and believe me there are games played by some JUCOs. NAIA usually carries about 27 players.

Not an expert by far just a parent who pays the bill, Coach Fackler is a great source for D1 because he has balance that money before............

[rounder17]

[quote name="GTBBaseball" post="723879" timestamp="1259971352"]
Ben Broussard was a supplemental round draft pick by Cincy, a "Senior Sign" after MSU, not out of high school.

Fackler
[/quote]

I know, I played baseball with Ben.  The guy didn't have his facts straight. First he wasn't the first pick, and second he played a little higher up than a couple of years of "semi pro".

[hitman009]

[quote name="rounder17" post="723909" timestamp="1259978123"]
[quote author=GTBBaseball link=topic=63290.msg723879#msg723879 date=1259971352]
Ben Broussard was a supplemental round draft pick by Cincy, a "Senior Sign" after MSU, not out of high school.

Fackler
[/quote]

I know, I played baseball with Ben.  The guy didn't have his facts straight. First he wasn't the first pick, and second he played a little higher up than a couple of years of "semi pro".
[/quote]McKeller was the player.... was first over all pick in independent ball....their is a draft after tryouts..... Which were held in Fort Worth..... He tried out up there in the Jacksonville league but was drafted by a team up north....(BANGOR - The Bangor Lumberjacks will sign the No. 1 overall pick in the Central League Draft, right hand pitcher Laine McKeller from McNeese State.)  you play 2 years as a "rookie" (paid minimum) then are considered a free agent which can negotiate your own contract...
as for "simi pro"..."Independent ball"  its all the same. to me pro is pro. you get paid your a pro.  
But Gilligan did say he had no talent and could not play at the next level.....Have this from a really good source......
as for Ben, Lamar passed him up..."whole in his swing"??????????
Now Coach Fackler, I am just wondering how much of those 18 area players mentioned have scholarships???
In the past, Lamar did have area players but [b]not many[/b] on scholarship.

You may be right coach, things may have changed. I hope it has.......and you are right, still hold a grudge, but it is hard to forgive the past when you were one of the area players that was burnt.

Former Player of yours (Fackler)

[AJ25]

[quote name="hitman009" post="724676" timestamp="1260068930"]
[quote author=rounder17 link=topic=63290.msg723909#msg723909 date=1259978123]
[quote author=GTBBaseball link=topic=63290.msg723879#msg723879 date=1259971352]
Ben Broussard was a supplemental round draft pick by Cincy, a "Senior Sign" after MSU, not out of high school.

Fackler
[/quote]

I know, I played baseball with Ben.  The guy didn't have his facts straight. First he wasn't the first pick, and second he played a little higher up than a couple of years of "semi pro".
[/quote]McKeller was the player.... was first over all pick in independent ball....their is a draft after tryouts..... Which were held in Fort Worth..... He tried out up there in the Jacksonville league but was drafted by a team up north....(BANGOR - The Bangor Lumberjacks will sign the No. 1 overall pick in the Central League Draft, right hand pitcher Laine McKeller from McNeese State.)  you play 2 years as a "rookie" (paid minimum) then are considered a free agent which can negotiate your own contract...
as for "simi pro"..."Independent ball"  its all the same. to me pro is pro. you get paid your a pro.  
But Gilligan did say he had no talent and could not play at the next level.....Have this from a really good source......
as for Ben, Lamar passed him up..."whole in his swing"??????????
Now Coach Fackler, I am just wondering how much of those 18 area players mentioned have scholarships???
In the past, Lamar did have area players but [b]not many[/b] on scholarship.

You may be right coach, things may have changed. I hope it has.......and you are right, still hold a grudge, but it is hard to forgive the past when you were one of the area players that was burnt.

Former Player of yours (Fackler)
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For whoever this is, the reason Gilligan most likely said mckellar had no talent was because of the fact that he threw 81 MPH when he walked on. He could hit a nat, that's why he was given a spot. When he left Lamar and put on weight, then he became a pitcher who could throw hard AND STILL hit spots.