McGwire admits using steroids in 1998

[Guest baseball25]

Just to make it quick I can careless if they take roids I know how hard it is to play the game of baseball I played it at a high level you got to have the talent to get to where they are and do what they do just plain and simple.

[Guest GCMPats]

[size=12pt]Fisk has harsh words for Mac, Clemens[/size]

ESPNBoston.com

Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk became the latest former player to level criticism at admitted steroids user Mark McGwire. And in the same interview with the Chicago Tribune, Fisk also had strong words for Roger Clemens.

Fisk, who caught 2,226 games spanning 24 seasons for the Boston Red Sox and then the Chicago White Sox, said McGwire's insistence that steroids did not help him total 583 career home runs is "a crock."

"[McGwire] says, 'Well, it doesn't help eye-and-hand coordination.' Well, of course it does," Fisk told the Tribune for Wednesday's editions. "It allows you more acuity physically and mentally and optically. You are going to be stronger and you are going to be better.

"Some of these numbers that are out there are really warped. Should they be considered? You saw how McGwire was viewed in the Hall of Fame voting. If you take the length of time that [steroid users] use that stuff and subtract 15 or 20 home runs a year for those guys, where are their numbers then?"

As part of his admission to using steroids throughout the 1990s, McGwire said last week he believes steroids did not inflate his home run totals and that he took them to heal faster from injuries, which allowed him to remain in the lineup.

"That's a crock," Fisk told the Tribune. "There's a reason they call it performance-enhancing drugs. That's what it does -- performance enhancement. You can be good, but it's going to make you better. You can be average, but it is going to make you good. If you are below average, it is going to make you average. Some guys who went that route got their five-year, $35 million contracts and now are off into the sunset somewhere. Because once they can't use [steroids] anymore, they can't play anymore."

"Try having your knees operated on and catching for 30 years," Fisk added. "Do you think you feel good when you go out there? [McGwire] had to stand around and play first base. So excuuuuuse me."

Fisk's outrage wasn't aimed solely at McGwire. He also was critical of seven-time Cy Young winner Clemens, who has been accused of using PEDs. The former trainer of the 353-game winner has said he injected Clemens with steroids and HGH over a period of several years, a claim Clemens has vehemently denied.

"The reason he got let go from the Red Sox [after the 1996 season] was because he was starting to break down," Fisk told the Tribune. "His last couple of years in Boston just weren't very productive, a la 'The Rocket.' Then all of a sudden he goes to Toronto and he wants to show somebody something. Then he gets two consecutive Cy Young Awards [in '97 and '98]. Come on, give me a bucket.

"It's obvious to players. You notice that stuff. You know how hard it is to play the game. You know how hard it is to be productive at any age, but especially at an older age. You see guys who are as productive later on as they were early [in their careers]. It offends guys that stayed clean."

[baddog]

[quote name="GCMPats" post="747423" timestamp="1264093807"]
[size=12pt]Fisk has harsh words for Mac, Clemens[/size]

ESPNBoston.com

Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk became the latest former player to level criticism at admitted steroids user Mark McGwire. And in the same interview with the Chicago Tribune, Fisk also had strong words for Roger Clemens.

Fisk, who caught 2,226 games spanning 24 seasons for the Boston Red Sox and then the Chicago White Sox, said[b] [size=12pt]McGwire's insistence that steroids did not help him total 583 career home runs is "a crock."[/size][/b]"[McGwire] says, 'Well, it doesn't help eye-and-hand coordination.' Well, of course it does," Fisk told the Tribune for Wednesday's editions. "It allows you more acuity physically and mentally and optically. You are going to be stronger and you are going to be better.

"Some of these numbers that are out there are really warped. Should they be considered? You saw how McGwire was viewed in the Hall of Fame voting. If you take the length of time that [steroid users] use that stuff and [b][size=12pt]subtract 15 or 20 home runs a year for those guys, where are their numbers then?"[/size][/b]

As part of his admission to using steroids throughout the 1990s, McGwire said last week he believes steroids did not inflate his home run totals and that he took them to heal faster from injuries, which allowed him to remain in the lineup.

"That's a crock," Fisk told the Tribune[b].[size=12pt] "There's a reason they call it performance-enhancing drugs. That's what it does -- performance enhancement.[/size][/b] You can be good, but it's going to make you better. You can be average, but it is going to make you good. If you are below average, it is going to make you average. Some guys who went that route got their five-year, $35 million contracts and now are off into the sunset somewhere. Because once they can't use [steroids] anymore, they can't play anymore."

"Try having your knees operated on and catching for 30 years," Fisk added. "Do you think you feel good when you go out there? [McGwire] had to stand around and play first base. So excuuuuuse me."

Fisk's outrage wasn't aimed solely at McGwire. He also was critical of seven-time Cy Young winner Clemens, who has been accused of using PEDs. The former trainer of the 353-game winner has said he injected Clemens with steroids and HGH over a period of several years, a claim Clemens has vehemently denied.

"The reason he got let go from the Red Sox [after the 1996 season] was because he was starting to break down," Fisk told the Tribune. "His last couple of years in Boston just weren't very productive, a la 'The Rocket.'[b] [size=12pt]Then all of a sudden he goes to Toronto and he wants to show somebody something. Then he gets two consecutive Cy Young Awards [in '97 and '98]. Come on, give me a bucket.[/size][/b]"It's obvious to players. You notice that stuff. You know how hard it is to play the game. You know how hard it is to be productive at any age, but especially at an older age. You see guys who are as productive later on as they were early [in their careers]. [b][size=12pt]It offends guys that stayed clean."[/size][/b]


[/quote]

Thanks GCM.

[Guest baseball25]

What hasn't bonds done? I will get to that, but other mind blowing stats include:

1. Holds record for most MVP awards (7) and consecutive MVP awards (4) (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
2. Holds records for most home runs in a season (73)
3. Holds records for most walks in a career (2,512)
4. Holds record for consecutive seasons with 30 homeruns (13).
5. Only player in 400 home run and 400 stolen base club
6. Only player in 500 home run and 500 stolen base club
7. 14 time all star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
8. One of four players in 40-40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases)
9. Holds record for most consecutive seasons with .600 slugging percentage or higher (8)
10. 5-time SF Giants Player of the Year (1998, 2001-04)
11. 14-Time All-Star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
12. 7-Time Baseball America NL All-Star OF (1993, 1998, 2000-04)
13. 3-Time Major League Player of the Year (1990, 2001, 2004)
14. 3-Time Baseball America MLB Player of the Year (2001, 2003-04)
15. 8-Time Gold Glove winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-98)
16. 12-Time Silver Slugger winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-97, 2000-04)
17. Led the Major Leagues in home runs (1993, 2001)
18. Led the NL in batting average (2002, 2004)
19. Led the NL in on base percentage (1991-93, 1995, 2001-04, 2006)
20. Led the Major Leagues in slugging percentage (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
21. Led the Major Leagues in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
22. Led the Major Leagues in on base percentage (1992, 2001-04)
23. Led the NL in runs (1992)
24. Led the NL in RBIs (1993)
25. Led the NL in walks (1992, 1994-97, 2000-04, 2006)
26. Led the NL in intentional walks (1992-98, 2002-04, 2006)
27. Led the NL in runs created (1992-93, 2001-02, 2004)
28. Led the Major Leagues in total bases (1993, with 365)
29. Led the Major Leagues in runs created (1993, 2001-02, 2004)
30. Led the NL in games (1995)
31. Led the NL in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
32. Led the NL in at bats per home run (1992-93, 1996, 2000-04)
33. 3-Time NL Hank Aaron Award winner (2001-02, 2004)
34. Led the Major Leagues in batting average (2002, with .370)

An essay by Robert Nishihara has an interesting take on the home run/steroids question. He turns to the book The Science of Hitting by former Red Sox great Ted Williams, considered by man to be the best all-around hitter to ever play the game, to define what it takes to hit a home run
A good hitter must identify a pitch to hit, know enough about the pitcher and the game situation to give himself the best chance to succeed, and put hands and hips into motion to drive the pitch



“Sure, added muscle mass may increase the distance a player is able to hit a baseball, but what negative effect does that added mass have in altering the fluidity of the player's swing and, thus, his ability to hit the ball in the first place? A popular baseball refrain cautions fast players who have deficiencies in the batter's box that one cannot steal first base. Similarly, a power hitter cannot hit a home run if he cannot hit the ball. And hitting a baseball is a unique skill in the world of sports. It is a powerful act that does not require extraordinary muscle strength. Instead, it is primarily dependent on technique, reflexes, and hand-eye coordination, not brute strength. It is a correlation that so many people are failing to make these days.”