Hamshire Fannett Basketball Program

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="754681" timestamp="1265230200"]
It's very simple(but in some cases, impossible). HF has to change three things, the culture, the environment, and the mindset. They have to play the game more(culture), upgrade the practice and facilities(environment) and decide to make the basketball program a higher priority sport(mindset).

Basketball is not played by many and not enough there at HF. They have to practice the game and enhance where they practice and how they practice. Most importantly, basketball cannot be 4th or 5th on the totem pole, it has to move up in the pecking order.

Get those things set in place, you'll see improvement in the program.

But like I said, in some places, that's impossible. ;)
[/quote]Aggie, I think you have made some very good points.

[yakker]

The problems start at the middle school....coaches tell parents and players "We don't have time to teach basketball."

[ForeverADog]

Honestly, I think a major factor is HF doesn't practice basketball year round to my knowledge. Don't they just play in season? Thats a huge disadvantage if that is true. You have to build that comradery in the off season with your teammates and you have to constantly be getting better because everyone else is.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="ForeverADog" post="755568" timestamp="1265388075"]
Honestly, I think a major factor is HF doesn't practice basketball year round to my knowledge. Don't they just play in season? Thats a huge disadvantage if that is true. You have to build that comradery in the off season with your teammates and you have to constantly be getting better because everyone else is.
[/quote]I'm not sure if they play together during the summer months. Maybe someone has an answer.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="hfresident" post="755556" timestamp="1265386784"]
The problems start at the middle school....coaches tell parents and players "We don't have time to teach basketball."

[/quote]I think the coaches have time to teach plays and work on the defense. The shooting, dribbling, and passing (which is still a minor part of the game) has to done during the off-season. Now the one thing I admire the middle school coaches at HF are doing is to have open gym after practice till 5:30. I see some players take advantage to stick around and shoot, dribble and play 3 on 3, where you get addtional reps.

[mammagotjuice]

[quote name="hfresident" post="755556" timestamp="1265386784"]
The problems start at the middle school....coaches tell parents and players "We don't have time to teach basketball."

[/quote]HF Res..they don't. Unfortunately, in my opinion, nowadays, you have to come prepared in the middle school basketball setting. The coaches do not have time... there are 4 teams and there is simply not enough time..there is hardly enough of gyms for all to practice.
At H-f much emphasis is put on basketball for girls not boys...i know i have a daughter. Coach Moore dedicates his time with those girls in Elem and intermediate level..I applaud him for that. Now as for the boys....No one works with them. So, you end up with multiple groups of boys that don't have sound fundamentals at the highschool level. Really, I do not see alot of respect for the game in HF. I see lots of parents get special/independent training for their kids in Baseball and soccer yet not basketball. Then when it is basketball season, those kids that have not touched a basketball all year are now on the school basketball team for FUN. This erks me. I do not get special training for my boys in baseball, soccer, or football and guess what which ever one of these sports my sons are not contributing well too....they will no longer play(let alone...demand playing time) because it is not fair to the team. In closing, if you do not have enough respect for basketball to work on your game and invest some time...then you really should find another sport. You cannot allow players that just decide to play basketball in their SENIOR year to determine your season and expect to have a winning program. It has to start much ealier. HF has got to stop being comfortable with losing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hfmom08]

[quote name="hfmom08" post="755053" timestamp="1265300212"]
baseball, it's about grooming, investing and spending time with the talent you do have.  Not pointing a finger at any one person because it takes a village to raise a child and that same village to produce an athlete.  The community needs to invest in the athletes, the program needs to groom the athletes and[b] the parents have to be willing to spend/take the time,money and effort to help the athlete determine which sport is right for them and encourage them to pursue their dreams.[/b]
[/quote]

mamma, well said...I made some of the same points in this forum and the OF vs HF forum and as someone else said alot of changes have to be made. 

Hf has a coaching position posted on their website now that has been posted for at least a year...They are looking for a Coach/Math Teacher....HAHA....HF has to stop putting stipulations on coaching/teacher requirements....stop trying to get two for one....AD/Head Football Coach....it will be very difficult to hire a coach who is also a qualified math teacher.  That's why you wind up getting a qualified math teacher who may have played sports in high school and knows very little about what it takes to be a Coach or build a halfway decent program(in any sport)...Try hiring a COACH and hiring a MATH TEACHER if that's what you need.  We pay our taxes for that reason.

[Bobcat1]

Anyone from HF know the GIRLS SCORE against WOS?! Still not posted... ::)

[pf-flyers]

It has to come from with the kids themselves. If they want to become successfull, they need to realize it.  They have to want it more than anything, their goals should be to make playoffs for [b]every sport every year[/b]. They have to invest time into the sport as well. They need to want it with their heart. Academics are also great for kids to succeed, but athletics is where you get recognized.

[Hupernikomen]

[quote name="Kris_Gilmore" post="755331" timestamp="1265332507"]
Just out of curiosity how many D1 Athletes have come out of HF in all sports in the last 10 years?  Not that many.  I am a coach and people don't realize how talented you have to be in order to get an athletic scholarship.  I can think of 3 or 4, and D2, D3, and Junior colleges don't count.

What people don't understand is at the 3A level it sometimes takes more than being the District MVP or making it to the state meet in a particular sport in order to get an athletic scholarship.
[/quote]

You can't argue with a momma whose baby isn't getting playing time.  Their is no rationale for it no matter what you say.

[spectator34]

[quote name="no-look" post="755351" timestamp="1265337315"]
Whats the enrollment at HF?
[/quote]

590

[redheaded stepchild]

Nowhere near 590. In fact I believe it was 527. They are now the smallest in the district.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="whsalum" post="755358" timestamp="1265338523"]
[quote author=Kris_Gilmore link=topic=65604.msg755331#msg755331 date=1265332507]
Just out of curiosity how many D1 Athletes have come out of HF in all sports in the last 10 years?  Not that many.  I am a coach and people don't realize how talented you have to be in order to get an athletic scholarship.  I can think of 3 or 4, and D2, D3, and Junior colleges don't count.

What people don't understand is at the 3A level it sometimes takes more than being the District MVP or making it to the state meet in a particular sport in order to get an athletic scholarship.
[/quote]The only thing I disagree with in this statement is D2,D3 and JUCO don't count.You have to be a great player at the 3-a level to even get a look at these colleges.The only basketball player I can remember recently that even got a D1 look was Donahoe from HJ and he was state MVP.
[/quote]Small D-1......LOOKS! You have to have some serious skills if you're 3A.

[Let’sGetAlong]

[quote name="hfmom08" post="756175" timestamp="1265488034"]
[quote author=hfmom08 link=topic=65604.msg755053#msg755053 date=1265300212]
baseball, it's about grooming, investing and spending time with the talent you do have.  Not pointing a finger at any one person because it takes a village to raise a child and that same village to produce an athlete.  The community needs to invest in the athletes, the program needs to groom the athletes and[b] the parents have to be willing to spend/take the time,money and effort to help the athlete determine which sport is right for them and encourage them to pursue their dreams.[/b]
[/quote]

mamma, well said...I made some of the same points in this forum and the OF vs HF forum and as someone else said alot of changes have to be made. 

Hf has a coaching position posted on their website now that has been posted for at least a year...They are looking for a Coach/Math Teacher....HAHA....HF has to stop putting stipulations on coaching/teacher requirements....stop trying to get two for one....AD/Head Football Coach....it will be very difficult to hire a coach who is also a qualified math teacher.  That's why you wind up getting a qualified math teacher who may have played sports in high school and knows very little about what it takes to be a Coach or build a halfway decent program(in any sport)...Try hiring a COACH and hiring a MATH TEACHER if that's what you need.  We pay our taxes for that reason.
[/quote]

Why don't you go get a math degree? You seem like you know basketball better than all the coaches there. In all seriousness, if you live in HF and you have spoken to the coach like you said you have, quit bashing the program on here. Makes the community look bad. What subject do you suppose the coach teach? If you want teachers to teach and coaches to coach and people not doing both, your taxes would skyrocket. Support your school, even if you disagree with everything that's fine, but you can still show some support. Just my opinion though.

[Bobcat1]

[quote name="redheaded stepchild" post="756312" timestamp="1265501038"]
Nowhere near 590. In fact I believe it was 527. They are now the smallest in the district.
[/quote]


Silsbee 853 + 9.5
BC 714 + 7
WOS 699 + 8
H-J 586 -76
OF 542 +21
H-F 527 - 41

They lost 41 from last year and are now the smallest school in the district.

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="Rizon" post="757260" timestamp="1265688781"]

[quote author=hfmom08 link=topic=65604.msg756175#msg756175 date=1265488034]
[quote author=hfmom08 link=topic=65604.msg755053#msg755053 date=1265300212]
baseball, it's about grooming, investing and spending time with the talent you do have.  Not pointing a finger at any one person because it takes a village to raise a child and that same village to produce an athlete.  The community needs to invest in the athletes, the program needs to groom the athletes and[b] the parents have to be willing to spend/take the time,money and effort to help the athlete determine which sport is right for them and encourage them to pursue their dreams.[/b]
[/quote]

mamma, well said...I made some of the same points in this forum and the OF vs HF forum and as someone else said alot of changes have to be made. 

Hf has a coaching position posted on their website now that has been posted for at least a year...They are looking for a Coach/Math Teacher....HAHA....HF has to stop putting stipulations on coaching/teacher requirements....stop trying to get two for one....AD/Head Football Coach....it will be very difficult to hire a coach who is also a qualified math teacher.  That's why you wind up getting a qualified math teacher who may have played sports in high school and knows very little about what it takes to be a Coach or build a halfway decent program(in any sport)...Try hiring a COACH and hiring a MATH TEACHER if that's what you need.  We pay our taxes for that reason.
[/quote]

Why don't you go get a math degree? You seem like you know basketball better than all the coaches there. In all seriousness, if you live in HF and you have spoken to the coach like you said you have, quit bashing the program on here. Makes the community look bad. What subject do you suppose the coach teach? If you want teachers to teach and coaches to coach and people not doing both, your taxes would skyrocket. Support your school, even if you disagree with everything that's fine, but you can still show some support. Just my opinion though.
[/quote]

i know i don't have a dog in this fight, but HF sure sounds alot like our own community (and school), i don't want to get into whether this is a good forum to discuss the perceived "problems", i think most rational adults can figure out what is appropriate to air out on here but one thing is sure and is that a healthy discussion (somewhere) can clear up alot of misconceptions.

what i am curious about is what the tax base there looks like. teacher/coaches are paid a fairly substantial stipend that [i][b]could[/b][/i] go towards a dedicated salary, and of course they don't [i]have[/i] to teach in order to coach, in fact i'm not sure they even have to have a degree to teach. most places just require that coaches be "full time employees", i guess the maintenance person could coach (seems like some recent changes require some type of coaching "certification" but that can be done independent of a phd). so anyway [i]assuming[/i] a tax base of 1000 households/properties (pretty conservative?) a reasonably salaried dedicated coach would only add a few dollars ($50x1000=$50,000 just for example) to everyone's tax bill, not exactly "skyrocketing" them. i'm not saying everyone involved would see that as a good investment, and ANY increase in taxes usually meets resistance, but then you consider that playoff programs BRING IN MONEY to boot....and current budgets are made to be reallocated right? just some thoughts.

its hard enough to find a great math teacher OR a great coach (seriously, not bashing just being realistic), how do you expect to find the unicorn that is EXCEPTIONAL at both.....AND wants to work cheap? and "supporting" ones school doesn't mean just going along with everything that is done blindly. "good" citizens question poor decisions, the admins RUN the schools, but without trying to sound cliche or PC cuz i hate that mess, it really is the KIDS school, don't we owe it to them to give them the [b]best opportunity[/b] that we can? no offense to you at all because maybe you don't intend it that way, but when i hear that "support your school" line it sounds a little like PC propaganda as if to say "if you question the powers that be you're a traitor of sorts". come on, that kind of non transparency is a recipe for mediocrity or downright failure.

i do agree that ALOT of responsibility lies on the parents, sometimes we expect the schools to do more than is reasonable. but a great coach CAN make a huge difference..again though my question is about the tax base, would taxes really "skyrocket"?

[Hupernikomen]

[/quote]
don't we owe it to them to give them the [b]best opportunity[/b] that we can?

[/quote]

Hmm  let see if I understand this logic...If we want to give everyone the best opportunity perhaps we should bring back choir in our schools and make sure those teachers only teach choir, and  bring back cosmetology.  And what every happened to accounting in our schools?  We need to have Ag teachers who only teach what they are best in too.  This would give more kids a better shot at those Ag awards out there.  Why do we make any coach teach any class?  Are we going to short change our female athletes and make their coaches teach?  Why should our UIL coordinators have to teach a class?  I am sure we could get the best UIL coordinator in the area if we promised them all they had to do was  UIL.  We would start sending kids to Austin every year in UIL.  And our drama teachers they have way too many preps to do a very good job.  They need to only do drama.  That is if we want to give them the best opportunity that we can.  If we want what is best.  ::) ::)

Trust me if district are going to increase taxes the last reason they need to raise money right now is so a coach won't have to teach any classes. 

[TeamJagUS]

wait a minute, HF doesn't have cosmetology? this discussion is moot then, its obvious you need to take your kid somewhere else where they still have cosmetology, my apologies.

[Hupernikomen]

[quote name="scooby" post="757436" timestamp="1265739213"]

wait a minute, HF doesn't have cosmetology? this discussion is moot then, its obvious you need to take your kid somewhere else where they still have cosmetology, my apologies.
[/quote]

If they did they don't any more..that is the point.  Schools make decisions based on need.  Having a basketball only coach is not high on the wish list for many schools at all.  Same can be said about cosmetology.  If all we wanted was the best for our kids everyone could just chip a few dollars here and there and keep cosmetology around, right?

Or maybe even you could take your own advice and take your kid somewhere where they have a basketball coach who doesn't have to teach??

[horndawg]

[color=#151b8d][color=blue]"Or maybe even you could take your own advice and take your kid somewhere where they have a basketball coach who doesn't have to teach??"[/color][/color]


Is there a 3A school where the basketball coach doesn't have to teach?  I could see where that might be possible in larger 4A or 5A schools (even though I would think even there,that would be more of an exception than the rule).  I think it would be rare (if at all) that would be the case in 3A and below classifications. 

Do you know of any schools where the basketball or any coach doesn't have to teach?  As I think back, most of the coaches that I had in school taught something (some taught PE, but not all.....the others taught math, biology, history)

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="Hupernikomen" post="757505" timestamp="1265746138"]

[i]Having a basketball only coach is not high on the wish list for many schools at all. [/i]

Or maybe even you could take your own advice and take your kid somewhere where they have a basketball coach who doesn't have to teach??
[/quote]

and thats my point about the school that can't or won't, it's a priority issue, if it's important enough they'll make it happen, so....it's just not [i]that[/i] important, or....they don't know it is yet....no need to have a chip on your shoulder about it.

as to you last comment.....you'd like that wouldn't you?  ;)

[AggiesAreWe]

Just for informational purposes, Silsbee basketball coach Travis Williams teaches math at the high school. Doesn't seem to hinder Silsbee's basketball program. ;)

[Hupernikomen]

[quote name="scooby" post="757535" timestamp="1265749718"]
[quote author=Hupernikomen link=topic=65604.msg757505#msg757505 date=1265746138]

[i]Having a basketball only coach is not high on the wish list for many schools at all. [/i]

Or maybe even you could take your own advice and take your kid somewhere where they have a basketball coach who doesn't have to teach??
[/quote]

and thats my point about the school that can't or won't, it's a priority issue, if it's important enough they'll make it happen, so....it's just not [i]that[/i] important, or....they don't know it is yet....no need to have a chip on your shoulder about it.

as to you last comment.....you'd like that wouldn't you?  ;)
[/quote]

Only thing I want is for you to get a sense of reality.  Of course it is a priority issue academics should be the priority.  What are you going to cut to allow all coaches to only coach?

[BLUEDOVE3]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think AAW 's comments make sense about changing the environment to make basketball a viable sport in the district. I honestly think the coaches want the program to be successful, but I'll talk with them about it one day.

[Hupernikomen]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="757562" timestamp="1265753339"]
As much as I hate to admit it, I think AAW 's comments make sense about changing the environment to make basketball a viable sport in the district. I honestly think the coaches want the program to be successful, but I'll talk with them about it one day.
[/quote]

Plenty of schools where football is king and they don't want success in other sports.  I don't know if HF is like that or not, but many are.