***New H-F AD......WHO WILL IT BE? Mangan Reassigned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

[fisherking]

It is really amazing how this topic started as a rumor and entirely speculative, and still remains that way. There has been no confirmation one way or another of the firing but yet according to most on here the firing has happened and his replacement has already been named and hired.

And kingfisher, I believe I answered it clearly, when I explained what I saw this year. The talent pool in football this year was no doubt lacking by huge amounts, whether by injury, quitting, or youth. They had no chance to win the two games I saw in person no matter who was coaching the team.

If Booger is right, I guess we will know soon enough the answer to the speculation but we will probably never know the whole story.

Which time is the superintendent and school board at fault in the demise of the football program? The time they hired the current coach or the time this time when they fired him? At what point do you look at the mentality of the people running the district rather than one person??

According to Bluedove, HF has talent coming and therefore whoever's the HC will have a better chance of winning in all boys sports than the current HC. But in my observations, of all sports, building a successful program takes more than 2 or 3 years, especially one as low as HF was/is. For the first couple of years, after a change in HC, a football program is playing on the level of development and coaching of the previous HC. If I were the board, I would be more concerned with 0-10 in football if there were enormous participation numbers in football than 0-10 with a small number of kids playing. Why are the kid quitting? To play other sports? Football too demanding? No desire to play? Specialization? No coach would have ever made me quit something I truly loved.

[kingfisher]

[quote name="fisherking" post="762972" timestamp="1266634272"]
It is really amazing how this topic started as a rumor and entirely speculative, and still remains that way. There has been no confirmation one way or another of the firing but yet according to most on here the firing has happened and his replacement has already been named and hired.

And kingfisher, I believe I answered it clearly, when I explained what I saw this year. The talent pool in football this year was no doubt lacking by huge amounts, whether by injury, quitting, or youth. They had no chance to win the two games I saw in person no matter who was coaching the team.

If Booger is right, I guess we will know soon enough the answer to the speculation but we will probably never know the whole story.

Which time is the superintendent and school board at fault in the demise of the football program? The time they hired the current coach or the time this time when they fired him? At what point do you look at the mentality of the people running the district rather than one person??

According to Bluedove, HF has talent coming and therefore whoever's the HC will have a better chance of winning in all boys sports than the current HC. But in my observations, of all sports, building a successful program takes more than 2 or 3 years, especially one as low as HF was/is. For the first couple of years, after a change in HC, a football program is playing on the level of development and coaching of the previous HC. If I were the board, I would be more concerned with 0-10 in football if there were enormous participation numbers in football than 0-10 with a small number of kids playing. [u][b]Why are the kid quitting?[/b][/u] To play other sports? Football too demanding? No desire to play? Specialization? No coach would have ever made me quit something I truly loved.
[/quote]

I imagine respect has a lot to do with it. I imagine you respected your coach fish? Maybe not liked him, but respect him?  If a kid doesn't respect their coach, it's hard to motivate them. Not that thats the prob, broseph, but just another thing to look at.

[pete22600]

ok so what is everone thinking the school board is going to do will they hire with in are out source

[kingfisher]

Or will they keep things the same?  ???

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="ECbuc4real" post="762918" timestamp="1266630061"]
[size=14pt][b]HJ is not the only school benefiting from the crash at HF, We have welcomed several good multi sport players to EC over the last 4 or 5 years and they have had great sucess here[/b][/size]. [size=10pt][i]If things stay the same at HF we will welcome more with open arms. I am not saying they came here for sports but thank you HF[/i][/size]. O yea these guys could have really helped HF. And for our sake I hope they leave our DC alone,he would make a good one but I dont think he would play the lil raindeer games they want a coach to play.
[/quote]


Please clear this up for me.  In the first sentence, you say HJ and EC are benefitting from the "crash at HF", then you say they didn't go there for sports?  So are you saying they moved for academic reasons? If so, then what does any of this have to do with as you say "the crash at HF". 

However, if athletes are leaving for athletic reasons (which I believe you are insinuating), isn't that against UIL rules?

I am just trying to understand your statement

[BLUEDOVE3]

Transferring is a common thing among high school athletes.

[ECbuc4real]

EC and HJ are benefiting from the crash,that is clear. Both athletes and non-athletes are transfering. The districts are benefiting from the increased enrollment. I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldnt it. Look at the transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years and you tell me.

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="ECbuc4real" post="763667" timestamp="1266783649"]
EC and HJ are benefiting from the crash,that is clear. Both athletes and non-athletes are transfering. The districts are benefiting from the increased enrollment. I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldn't it. Look at the transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years and you tell me.
[/quote]

Again you reference a "crash", what does that mean?  Then you say both athletes and non-athletes are transferring because of this so called "crash".  Then you would "never say that students were transferring for sports". 

I still don't understand, because if it is not for athletic reasons (as you say), then the "crash" you speak of must refer to something else.
And if it is something else, please enlighten us.  I am sure the people of HF would like to know.

Correct me here if I am wrong, but isn't HF an "exemplary" district ?

You will have to be more specific of the "transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years" for me to know what you are talking about.  My guess is that if you can be specific, you can probably only name athletes (" I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldn't it")..........?  Since you are making this comment as if it is fact, how many students have transferred?  If you cannot produce accurate numbers nor specific students, then how can you make such a statement?

Since your comments are on this thread, I would have to assume your comments are directed at the current AD.  If the "transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years" have been happening as you state, then all this was occurring before the arrival of the current AD (I think he has only been at HF 3 years if my memory serves me correctly). 

So I am trying figure all this out:

Kids are leaving because of a "crash", but it is not for athletic reasons, yet (and I may be wrong on this so, correct me if I am) HF is an "exemplary" district

You seem to insinuate that it is the current AD's fault, yet you say it has been happening "over the last 4 and 5 years" (again, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the current AD has only been here 3 years)

Please help me see the light

[ECbuc4real]

Not just the current AD and administration,but the previous one as well. Ever since Tarver has left and a change in administration there has been a decline in numbers and sucesss in boys athletics. The baseball team has had some sucess but will play with only 2 seniors this year..This is a disgrace for a 3A progroam that had 3 teams just 6 years ago,and now barely fielding 2. Football as well has had a huge drop in numbers, that cannot field 3 teams in high school. When PAISD merged the schools there were an influx of students at that time,now they choose to go to Sabine Pass instead Y? HF had students lining up to go there 5-6 years ago, what has happened. I am just saying that something crashed and at least 3 distrists are benefiting from it. The numbers don't lie. Maybe someone from HFcan shed some light on this. Look at the seniors for the last 2 years alone from EC,HJ,Kelly,just in that started HS at HF but left for whatever reason.

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="ECbuc4real" post="763716" timestamp="1266793048"]
Not just the current AD and administration,but the previous one as well. Ever since Tarver has left and a change in administration there has been a decline in numbers and sucesss in boys athletics. The baseball team has had some sucess but will play with only 2 seniors this year..This is a disgrace for a 3A progroam that had 3 teams just 6 years ago,and now barely fielding 2. Football as well has had a huge drop in numbers, that cannot field 3 teams in high school. When PAISD merged the schools there were an influx of students at that time,now they choose to go to Sabine Pass instead Y? HF had students lining up to go there 5-6 years ago, what has happened.[i][b] I am just saying that something crashed and at least 3 distrists are benefiting from it.[/b][/i] The numbers don't lie. Maybe someone from HFcan shed some light on this. Look at the seniors for the last 2 years alone from EC,HJ,Kelly,just in that started HS at HF but left for whatever reason.
[/quote]

Are you a politician?  You do a great job of avoiding the questions I have asked (based on statement that you are making).

First you said "the crash", indicating you had knowledge of some event or events that occurred or were occurring, but now you are "saying that something crashed" with out presenting any facts or evidence.  Case in point, I believe if it were possible to go check enrollment at HF I believe you would  probably find students that have moved in to HF that started  high school somewhere else.  There are lots of reasons that can happen (parents employment, desire to move to another area etc).  I don't believe that there are students just moving out of the district (but I could be wrong).  I also know that many families were displaced from the flooding of IKE.  Could this have been a reason for a move? I don't know.  

Now again, a point you avoided (and I may be wrong on this) I believe HF is an "exemplary" district.  So my question is if students moved because as you say "something crashed", I would have to assume that it was not academics.  If this is the case, then the moves must have been for athletic reasons.......................and you have stated "HJ is not the only school benefiting from the crash at HF, We have welcomed several good multi sport players to EC over the last 4 or 5 years and they have had great sucess here".  Then in another post you say "I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldn't it"  Again, I believe that it is a violation of UIL rules to change schools for athletic purposes but I cannot state that as fact.

So, which is it?  Did the students you are referring to leave for athletic reasons? academic reasons? IKE? I have to assume the first reason because all or your responses  refer back to one sport or another.

[kingfisher]

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="763756" timestamp="1266802939"]
[quote author=ECbuc4real link=topic=65861.msg763716#msg763716 date=1266793048]
Not just the current AD and administration,but the previous one as well. Ever since Tarver has left and a change in administration there has been a decline in numbers and sucesss in boys athletics. The baseball team has had some sucess but will play with only 2 seniors this year..This is a disgrace for a 3A progroam that had 3 teams just 6 years ago,and now barely fielding 2. Football as well has had a huge drop in numbers, that cannot field 3 teams in high school. When PAISD merged the schools there were an influx of students at that time,now they choose to go to Sabine Pass instead Y? HF had students lining up to go there 5-6 years ago, what has happened.[i][b] I am just saying that something crashed and at least 3 distrists are benefiting from it.[/b][/i] The numbers don't lie. Maybe someone from HFcan shed some light on this. Look at the seniors for the last 2 years alone from EC,HJ,Kelly,just in that started HS at HF but left for whatever reason.
[/quote]

Are you a politician?  You do a great job of avoiding the questions I have asked (based on statement that you are making).

First you said "the crash", indicating you had knowledge of some event or events that occurred or were occurring, but now you are "saying that something crashed" with out presenting any facts or evidence.  Case in point, I believe if it were possible to go check enrollment at HF I believe you would  probably find students that have moved in to HF that started  high school somewhere else.  There are lots of reasons that can happen (parents employment, desire to move to another area etc).  I don't believe that there are students just moving out of the district (but I could be wrong).  I also know that many families were displaced from the flooding of IKE.  Could this have been a reason for a move? I don't know. 

Now again, a point you avoided (and I may be wrong on this) I believe HF is an "exemplary" district.  So my question is if students moved because as you say "something crashed", I would have to assume that it was not academics.  If this is the case, then the moves must have been for athletic reasons.......................and you have stated "HJ is not the only school benefiting from the crash at HF, We have welcomed several good multi sport players to EC over the last 4 or 5 years and they have had great sucess here".  Then in another post you say "I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldn't it"  Again, I believe that it is a violation of UIL rules to change schools for athletic purposes.

So, which is it?  Did the students you are referring to leave for athletic reasons? academic reasons? IKE? I have to assume the first reason because all or your responses  refer back to one sport or another.


[/quote]

Yo bra your rhetoric and fisherkings are eerily similar seeems like they are one in the same?

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="kingfisher" post="763758" timestamp="1266803510"]
[quote author=xavierbreath link=topic=65861.msg763756#msg763756 date=1266802939]
[quote author=ECbuc4real link=topic=65861.msg763716#msg763716 date=1266793048]
Not just the current AD and administration,but the previous one as well. Ever since Tarver has left and a change in administration there has been a decline in numbers and sucesss in boys athletics. The baseball team has had some sucess but will play with only 2 seniors this year..This is a disgrace for a 3A progroam that had 3 teams just 6 years ago,and now barely fielding 2. Football as well has had a huge drop in numbers, that cannot field 3 teams in high school. When PAISD merged the schools there were an influx of students at that time,now they choose to go to Sabine Pass instead Y? HF had students lining up to go there 5-6 years ago, what has happened.[i][b] I am just saying that something crashed and at least 3 distrists are benefiting from it.[/b][/i] The numbers don't lie. Maybe someone from HFcan shed some light on this. Look at the seniors for the last 2 years alone from EC,HJ,Kelly,just in that started HS at HF but left for whatever reason.
[/quote]

Are you a politician?  You do a great job of avoiding the questions I have asked (based on statement that you are making).

First you said "the crash", indicating you had knowledge of some event or events that occurred or were occurring, but now you are "saying that something crashed" with out presenting any facts or evidence.  Case in point, I believe if it were possible to go check enrollment at HF I believe you would  probably find students that have moved in to HF that started  high school somewhere else.  There are lots of reasons that can happen (parents employment, desire to move to another area etc).  I don't believe that there are students just moving out of the district (but I could be wrong).  I also know that many families were displaced from the flooding of IKE.  Could this have been a reason for a move? I don't know. 

Now again, a point you avoided (and I may be wrong on this) I believe HF is an "exemplary" district.  So my question is if students moved because as you say "something crashed", I would have to assume that it was not academics.  If this is the case, then the moves must have been for athletic reasons.......................and you have stated "HJ is not the only school benefiting from the crash at HF, We have welcomed several good multi sport players to EC over the last 4 or 5 years and they have had great sucess here".  Then in another post you say "I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldn't it"  Again, I believe that it is a violation of UIL rules to change schools for athletic purposes.

So, which is it?  Did the students you are referring to leave for athletic reasons? academic reasons? IKE? I have to assume the first reason because all or your responses  refer back to one sport or another.


[/quote]

Yo bra your rhetoric and fisherkings are eerily similar seeems like they are one in the same?
[/quote]

What do you mean king?

[fisherking]

Let me clear it up for you bro, king fisher, X is not me and I am not X. But I agree with X in this argument. If kids are leaving HF, it must be for athletic purposes, since HF was exemplary and is academically one of the best districts around, it has to be for athletic purposes.

[horndawg]

I'm in agreement with HF being exemplary, and it does seem to me that kid's parents that "want little Johnny to be looked at by big time colleges" want to move them away from HF, which is a sad sad deal.  For their education sake, I don't know why they'd leave HF.  Now if they'd all have that mentality, then HF could keep a core group of really good athletes that wouldn't lose that athleticism to other places.

[AggiesAreWe]

These are the enrollment numbers for each school in district 21-3A for the last two realignments.


'08-'09

Silsbee    843.5
BC          707
WOS       691
HJ           662
HF          568
OF          521


'10-'11

Silsbee (853)
Bridge City (714)
West Orange-Stark (699)
Hardin-Jefferson (586)
Orangefield (527)
Hamshire-Fannett (527)


HJ lost the most with a 76 drop in enrollment, HF lost 41.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="horndawg" post="763783" timestamp="1266806387"]
I'm in agreement with HF being exemplary, and it does seem to me that kid's parents that "want little Johnny to be looked at by big time colleges" want to move them away from HF, which is a sad sad deal.  For their education sake, I don't know why they'd leave HF.  Now if they'd all have that mentality, then HF could keep a core group of really good athletes that wouldn't lose that athleticism to other places.
[/quote]Student-athletes are courted by other high schools with good acadeic and athletic programs. It's a common process.

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="763786" timestamp="1266806683"]
These are the enrollment numbers for each school in district 21-3A for the last two realignments.


'08-'09

Silsbee    843.5
BC          707
WOS       691
HJ           662
HF          568
OF          521


'10-'11

Silsbee (853)
Bridge City (714)
West Orange-Stark (699)
Hardin-Jefferson (586)
Orangefield (527)
Hamshire-Fannett (527)


HJ lost the most with a 76 drop in enrollment, HF lost 41.


[/quote]

Thanks for the info AAW.  

Now if I did my math correctly, that is about an 11% drop at HJ and about 7% at HF..........OH MY GAWD!.........there must have been a heckuva  "crash" at HJ ;D  Just think of how big of drop it would have been had  all those students not left HF for HJ

[xavierbreath]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="763802" timestamp="1266808247"]
[quote author=horndawg link=topic=65861.msg763783#msg763783 date=1266806387]
I'm in agreement with HF being exemplary, and it does seem to me that kid's parents that "want little Johnny to be looked at by big time colleges" want to move them away from HF, which is a sad sad deal.  For their education sake, I don't know why they'd leave HF.  Now if they'd all have that mentality, then HF could keep a core group of really good athletes that wouldn't lose that athleticism to other places.
[/quote]Student-athletes are courted by other high schools with good acadeic and athletic programs. It's a common process.
[/quote]


Correct me because I could be wrong, but I believe that "courted" would be considered "recruiting" and I believe that is a violation of UIL rules (of course proving such a thing may be next to impossible)

[xavierbreath]

Blue, I am just curious and I am not trying to start anything, but if it is a common process, can you name the schools that are doing it?

I am sure private schools do it because they need "student-athletes" for revenue, but I am just curious if you know of any public schools that might be "courting"?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="763812" timestamp="1266809194"]
Blue, I am just curious and I am not trying to start anything, but if it is a common process, can you name the schools that are doing it?

I am sure private schools do it because they need "student-athletes" for revenue, but I am just curious if you know of any public schools that might be "courting"?
[/quote] Public schools court. Been doing it, even when I was coming out of jr.high, and I'm old.

[BadMedicine]

[quote name="ECbuc4real" post="763667" timestamp="1266783649"]
EC and HJ are benefiting from the crash,that is clear. Both athletes and non-athletes are transfering. The districts are benefiting from the increased enrollment. I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldnt it. Look at the transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years and you tell me.
[/quote]

ECbuc4real,

What have all of these transferred students gained from leaving HF?  How many state championships have they won? How many college athletic scholarships have they earned?  

[ECbuc4real]

XB  you have to be either very unaware what is reality or you are  a HF paron trying to save face. It does not take many many student athletes to leave and cause big problems. The crash is a metaphor for the problems that are going on at HF. HJ is not the only district benefiting from the problems(for the slower group).Again EC,Sabine Pass,HJ,etc. Students were moving into the district but now are not, why is that? EC is also an exemplary district. Maybe Horndog or the AD that is on hear can answer the queations why? All of the communities were hit by Ike so thats not the answer. I am asking the same question why? I just hope is stays the same so we can continue to benefit<Both student and student Athlete.

[ECbuc4real]

[quote name="BadMedicine" post="764091" timestamp="1266864101"]
[quote author=ECbuc4real link=topic=65861.msg763667#msg763667 date=1266783649]
EC and HJ are benefiting from the crash,that is clear. Both athletes and non-athletes are transfering. The districts are benefiting from the increased enrollment. I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldnt it. Look at the transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years and you tell me.
[/quote]

ECbuc4real,

What have all of these transferred students gained from leaving HF?  How many state championships have they won? How many college athletic scholarships have they earned?  

[/quote]
You might want to check the amount of Scholarship money recieved by students at EC over the last 3 years compared to HF. Both academic and athletic>Why is a school so much smaller recieving more scholarship money? The athletes have enjoyed winning -in all sports.Oh by the way is a hell of a lot more fun than loosing.

[BadMedicine]

Where do you get your numbers?  Can you give totals of scholarships awarded to EC and HF graduates over the past three years?  Or do you just make up things to justify your argument?  The last HF graduation I attended, it seemed like every student got some kind of scholarship.

[Bucof2010]

[quote name="BadMedicine" post="764091" timestamp="1266864101"]
[quote author=ECbuc4real link=topic=65861.msg763667#msg763667 date=1266783649]
EC and HJ are benefiting from the crash,that is clear. Both athletes and non-athletes are transfering. The districts are benefiting from the increased enrollment. I would never say that students were transfering for sports, that would be unbelievable wouldnt it. Look at the transfers and attempted transfers over the last 4 and 5 years and you tell me.
[/quote]

ECbuc4real,

What have all of these transferred students gained from leaving HF?  How many state championships have they won? How many college athletic scholarships have they earned?  

[/quote]

0 state championships dont have to look back very far at all to see the last time youll won 0 of somthing  ;) :D