James Toney, the UFC and kid gloves

[Guest baseball25]

Years ago, Vince McMahon had the idea of booking Brock Lesnar against Lennox Lewis in a mixed martial arts match.



At some point, Lewis smartened up and realized that it probably wouldn't have been in his best interests. He retired happy, wealthy and healthy. And while that fight was little more than rumor, it's becoming eerily prescient.



Eight years later, Lesnar is the UFC champ, and Lewis' role as the formidable puncher may now be played by James Toney, a 72-6-3 former titlist who just signed a multi-fight deal with the promotion.



You can spin this either as a compelling experiment or a cringe-worthy disaster, but here are the facts: If we ignore the confused, limited-engagement bout between Muhammad Ali and Antonio Inoki in 1976, Toney is far and away the most accomplished boxer to ever attempt a mixed-style fight. If he can force an engagement on the feet against a striker with limited use of his legs, he has a reasonable chance of success. MMA boxing is not Queensberry boxing, however, and the stance and movement Toney has spent decades practicing might get his legs scooped up from under him; worse, the cardio demands imposed by extended sessions of resistance in the clinch or defending takedowns might have him exploding inside of a round.



These are the questions surrounding his ability in a cage, but good fights are all about stirring -- then resolving -- ambiguity. The more doubt that surrounds Toney's knowledge, the more curious we'll be to see him step in. Fight promoters are many things; raised by fools they are not.



The problem unique to Toney: No one was watching him fight in his own sport. He has not headlined a pay-per-view event in 14 years. If he were getting fat prize purses in boxing, he wouldn't have spent months campaigning for a break in the UFC. This is a fight designed around the novelty of watching a high-profile boxer against a well-rounded martial artist or grappler.

"He's here and I have to figure out what to do with him," Dana White told Yahoo's Kevin Iole. "What we won't do is make a freak show out of it. I'd be the first to scream if someone else did that, so I'm not going to do it."



"Freak show" has negative connotations; so long as two adults are physically fit enough to compete and have skills that could conceivably result in victory, I don't particularly care if they're actors, boxers, or deep-sea divers. But an aging boxer with no history of grappling in live contests is not going to be in any title mix. He's there to be gawked at. That's fine. Just don't call the Bearded Lady a member of high society, and don't call James Toney a guilt-free addition to mixed martial arts.

[Rebel4Christ]

First Kimbo, now Toney.  Seems as if the almighty pay per view dollar, sometimes, outweighs Dana's desire to keep his organization pure.  Why didn't he make Toney earn it through the ultimate fighter like he did Kimbo?  Kimbo meant ratings on TUF, I'm not sure Toney would.  Dana is becoming like the rest of them out there...more about money than the integrity of the sport.  After the fuss he made about Herschel Walker fighting in Strikeforce, he signs a 40 something year old boxer who is no where near what Herschel is physically.  Herschel looked like he was chiseled out of granite, Toney looks like he is full of twinkie creme.  I hope he gets knocked out quick in his first fight and is subsequently released. 

But...alas....I am part of the problem....I'll be one of the ones dropping the $44.95 to see whatever card Toney ends up on.

[Guest baseball25]

lol lol, I think Dana just might being doing this to shut toney up because toney is always dogging MMA, he might wanna see toney get is arm broke...

[venom33]

i dont see anyone knocking him out but i do see them subbing him all day! it will be fun to watch an accomplished boxer swing while wearing those tiny gloves!   :o


also, hasnt kimbo already beat him? if i remember correctly wasnt the fights validity in question?

[Guest baseball25]

Jumbo beat Ray mercer the guy that beat Sylvia Toney way better boxer than mercer

[venom33]

my bad... youre right,it was mercer.

toney should make for some interesting fights. im curious to see if anyone will stand with him for very long.

[Guest baseball25]

Lol I wouldn't want to stand with Jim, there saying slice might fight him after the mitrone fight.

[mat]

A smart fighter won't stand with him long. Chances are, Dana will pair him with some one he can beat rather than someone that can beat him down.

It's all about the show and I guess I'll be watching too. Its no different than the Strikeforce game plan.

[Guest baseball25]

thats why kimbo might get the first shot at him, I really wouldn't mind seeing Toney fight Paul Buentello

[oldschool_50]

I dont care to see James Toney fight at all boxing, MMA, or anything. Toney is done,washed up and has been for sometime now!!! Toney, Mercer, neither are considered accomished boxers in the world of boxing. why would they be in MMA???

[LUFAN]

Oldschool you might be right that he is past his prime but he is far from an unaccomplished fighter. Toney was the ring magazine fighter of the year in 1991 and 2003 and held major belts in Middleweight, Super Middleweight, and Cruiserweight. I dont know about you but that is pretty accomplished....

[Guest baseball25]

won 72 (KO 44) + lost 6 (KO 0) + drawn 3 = 83
thats Toneys Record he's stud man, one of the best Ever, his boxing skills will be 100 times better than anyone in the UFC, I mean how aren't you a accomplished boxer when you have fought 83 times and lost only 6 times


[b]Career Highlights [/b] 
USA Today "2003 Fighter of the Year"
World championship fights: 10-1-1
Rated, The Ring No. 4, WBC No. 4, IBF No. 10, WBO No. 4
Former IBF cruiserweight world champion
Former IBF super middleweight world champion; 3 successful defenses
Former IBF midleweight world champion, 6 successful defenses
Former WBA Heavyweight champion
The Ring Magazine "1991 Fighter of the Year"

[oldschool_50]

Yea your right, my bad. Accomplished was a poor choice of words on my part. He also had 33 amature fights winning 31 of them, so yea he "had" an accomplished boxing career.
Now having said that, I have no intrest in seeing a 41 year old over the hill, fat, blown up middle wt. boxer,
who has been suspended from boxing on two different occasions for testing positive for anabolic steroids, fight in boxing or MMA.
There is a reason Toney cant get a decent payday in boxing these days.


[quote name="baseball25" post="786707" timestamp="1270585735"]
won 72 (KO 44) + lost 6 (KO 0) + drawn 3 = 83
thats Toneys Record he's stud man, one of the best Ever, his boxing skills will be 100 times better than anyone in the UFC, I mean how aren't you a accomplished boxer when you have fought 83 times and lost only 6 times


[b]Career Highlights [/b] 
USA Today "2003 Fighter of the Year"
World championship fights: 10-1-1
Rated, The Ring No. 4, WBC No. 4, IBF No. 10, WBO No. 4
Former IBF cruiserweight world champion
Former IBF super middleweight world champion; 3 successful defenses
Former IBF midleweight world champion, 6 successful defenses
Former WBA Heavyweight champion
The Ring Magazine "1991 Fighter of the Year"

[/quote]

[Guest baseball25]

Well this fat blown up heavyweight boxer has 6-2 record at the heavyweight divison and his 2 losses are against a good heavyweight fighter in Sameul Peter who has only 3 losses as a heavyweight and 2 of those losses came against Klitschko, Fact his James Toney can still throws those hands, and throws those hands better than anybody in MMA.

[JoshD]

[quote name="baseball25" post="787618" timestamp="1270739256"]
Well this fat blown up heavyweight boxer has 6-2 record at the heavyweight divison and his 2 losses are against a good heavyweight fighter in Sameul Peter who has only 3 losses as a heavyweight and 2 of those losses came against Klitschko, Fact his James Toney can still throws those hands, and throws those hands better than anybody in MMA.
[/quote]
Who has he fought and beat at heavyweight?  It's now 2010 what has toney done in the past few years? The only time he faced a contender, sam peter, he lost.  Plus, if you saw the oquendo fight you would know he should have lost that one too. He looks horrible even when he wins these days.  Not to mention, he's been caught with steroids twice and thats just when he's been caught.  Who knows how many fights he's actually cheated in. Toney's not a serious threat at heavyweight, and nobody wants to watch him box anymore.  He's done.

[Guest baseball25]

We aren't talking about Boxing anymore we are talking about MMA, Toney Boxing skills are better than anybody in MMA, he's one of the best Boxers ever. Freddie Roach comments on Toney.

Toney is the most natural fighter I’ve ever seen,” said Roach, who has been a trainer for almost 20 years. “When he says, ‘All you mother------- have to train but I was born to fight,’ he meant it. The way he moved, the vision he had, to see everything coming at him, he was just so gifted.

“He’s getting older now and getting hit more than ever. At one time, though, he’d sit on the ropes and make you miss 100 punches and come back with counter shots. It was something to watch.”

Toney just didn’t want to work and battled weight problems as a result, which saddens Roach.

“He had no discipline,” Roach said. “If he had discipline, he could’ve been heavyweight champion of the world and dominated the division. It just didn’t turn out that way. I’m not sure why he didn’t get in shape and stay healthy. I guess some guys with that kind of talent just take it for granted.

[JoshD]

You just illustrated my point yourself ;D
If Toney isn't disciplined enough for boxing which hes been doing for years, then how in the world can anyone  take him serious that hes going to train and get ready for MMA, a sport in which he's never done before so there is a learning curve.

[Guest baseball25]

All about the money but one thing Toney knows he can knock out somebody or stunned them quick with his boxing skills, he has the best boxing skills in MMA by far, maybe he gets a descent trainer and he gets a good takedown defense and then hey he might win some fights, because he's way better boxer than Ray Mercer and Mercer knockout Tim Sylvia, so I mean what if Toney takes it serious and gets good with his takedown defense because remember if someone tries to take him down, there going to get alot of punches thrown at them quick, so you never know, Ray Mercer was never PFP a best boxer, James Toney has been and has been one of the best Boxers ever, thats all I am trying to say.