STATE TOURNAMENT OFFICIALS

[OLDREF]

In the past there have  been 18 officials from different chapters who officiated at the state tournament.  In most cases these officials had not worked with each other on a regular basis.  This year UIL went to a crew system. 
There were 12 crews taken from different chapters, but were all officials who had worked together during the year.  The 12 crews were each given a semi-final game, and based on merit a championship game on Saturday. I have only heard complaints against one crew, and it was a game I didn't see and will not judge.

My question is this.....Those of you who attended either  the boys or girls championship....Was the level of officiating better this year than in years past?  Could you tell that the crews had worked together?  Do you like this method of choosing referees or do you think the old way was better?

I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR COMMENTS!!

[AggiesAreWe]

I thought it was much better this year by taking full crews than taking individuals.

This was my 39th straight state tourney, and though this may not have been the best I have seen, the officiating was overall good. I think going the crew route is the best thing.

[DP#1FAN]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="779057" timestamp="1269013612"]
I thought it was much better this year by taking full crews than taking individuals.

This was my 39th straight state tourney, and though this may not have been the best I have seen, the officiating was overall good. I think going the crew route is the best thing.
[/quote] My 24 year and I agree with Ag on the crew.

[PoppaBearstarr]

OLD REF...didnt you get to call a game or two.

[OLDREF]

YES POPPA WE DID....got to call a semi-final....We did not make the cut for Saturday....something I am not ashamed of in view of the resumes of the officials there....To tell you the truth just to step on that court one time was more than I could ever ask for.

[underarmor]

Crew way is the only way to go. I thought the officiating was very good (xcept 3A) but UIL took care of it. OLD REF you and your crew did SE TX proud congrats on a great game..................

[OLDREF]

PICNROLL.................You know I respect your judgement.....what happened in that game...?

[OLDREF]

Sorry Picnroll......talking about the 3a game..heard a couple of rumbles on this site...but could not find anything on tx hoops....

[The Cook]

I think that the individual official route has been better than the crew route. I saw the 6 Thursday games in the girls tourney & all but the 5A final ( TV ) game and I didn't recognize but about 4 officials total. I believe Greg Garrett was working the tourney when it was individuals & they were all top notch refs-- didn't have to hide them in the lower level games. It didn't matter if you were with someone from Dallas/West Texas/ Panhandle, you all officiated the same way....good. The NBA & the NCAA schedule the same way...no crews. Check out the NCAA tourney officials in the coming weeks. They will probably be from 3 different states. You have to get the best officials in every game @ the state tourney level ( we owe it to the kids ) and you can't do it with crews. The best ref in the crew will only be as good as the weak one that the other two are covering up.

[Hupernikomen]

The officiating was good.  I felt like I saw 2 officials who weren't on the same level as the other officials there.  One of them had 2 guys who kept bailing him out of bad calls, and the other one wouldn't know a blocking foul if it hit him because he would call it a charge as he did the whole tournament except the one charge that he called a block.  Overall the officiating was high quality.  I will say this they let them play a lot more than what I am use to seeing around here.  Those kids banged on each other quite a bit without calls.

[The Cook]

Exactly!!!! Too many inexperienced refs there.....many didn't look like they were comfortable out there hence swallow the whistle & let 'em bang. It is funny that your observation on block/charge is the same that I've heard from everywhere, it seemed like the opposite of what was called was what happened. They just didn't look comfortable on the " Big Stage "

[ST413]

What 3A game did people have trouble with the officiating?  I didn't see the games, at least not yet. I did have a question about the Tigers game but didn't want to seem like it was an excuse. We got beat no excuse. In the third we started getting charges when in the first half we were drawing fouls. We have had a habit of getting charges, I just wasn't sure if they changed the way they were making the calls.

[OLDREF]

ST413..............YOU KNOW I AM FROM SILSBEE.....SO when I tell you that all of those charges in 2nd half were legit...they were LEGIT......I didn't like it ,but our guys came in outta control....they were easy calls...get a look at a disc....THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE......BUT IF YOU WATCH YOU WILL SEE

[Hupernikomen]

[quote name="OLDREF" post="779173" timestamp="1269028480"]
ST413..............YOU KNOW I AM FROM SILSBEE.....SO when I tell you that all of those charges in 2nd half were legit...they were LEGIT......I didn't like it ,but our guys came in outta control....they were easy calls...get a look at a disc....THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE......BUT IF YOU WATCH YOU WILL SEE
[/quote]

I didn't see but the very end of the Silsbee game, so wasn't speaking directly toward it.  I wish I could remember which game that the tall and bald black man called but he missed nearly every call all he knew was "charge".

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="OLDREF" post="779173" timestamp="1269028480"]
ST413..............YOU KNOW I AM FROM SILSBEE.....SO when I tell you that all of those charges in 2nd half were legit...they were LEGIT......I didn't like it ,but our guys came in outta control....they were easy calls...get a look at a disc....THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE......BUT IF YOU WATCH YOU WILL SEE
[/quote]


I agree, they were charges. BUT, that's what was frustrating the kids so much. Where I sat to call the game was right next to the Tiger bench. During timeouts in the second half, the player were complaining about the calls because they felt the Madison players were doing the samething the first half as to the second half. The first half they were calling them for blocking fouls, second half they turned to charging fouls.

Like I said, I thought the calls in the second half were correct, it's just that the calls in the first half maybe were not so and that confused the Silsbee players.

It was just kind of funny that Silsbee did not get a charging foul the whole first half while Madison got 5 blocking fouls then in the second half Silsbee got 6 charging fouls while Madison was not whistled for a single blocking foul. All these plays were simular to the ones in the first half. It was just frustrating to the kids.

I will say this, Travis was telling them during the timeouts in the second half to adjust to the calls, that they are charges. The kids just didn't understand why it was different.

[ST413]

That was my question. Like I said I haven't seen the game yet. I am sure they were the correct call from what has been said. It also sounds like the same calls were going the other way in the first half though. Either way my only complaint there would be consistency. The players needed to adjust and didn't. 

[Guest speechless]

silsbee game was refed good

charges was charges

they was the same in first as they was in the second

[torbush]

Ya know correct me if I'm wrong (which i know no one on this site will have a problem with correcting  :D) but I thought there was a lot more handchecking this year. I dont know, it just seemed to be not called as much. Just an observation though.

[24 over par]

boys tourny was well officated by the officals all though the higher the classifacation the more contact is allowed, the girls tourny not as good and the 3a championship game was horrible,this was my 31st out of the last 32 boys tourny

[underarmor]

[quote name="OLDREF" post="779123" timestamp="1269019732"]
Sorry Picnroll......talking about the 3a game..heard a couple of rumbles on this site...but could not find anything on tx hoops....
[/quote]
3 or 4 postings on March 12-13. They name the Dallas chapter in the 3A Girls Championship game. It was pretty poor and just looking at second hand info(which I usually dont do) the posters say the Officials were reprimanded immediately after the game........With no personal interest in the outcome I would have to say it was a below average job but again not an easy job to do.
I have in all the years I have been associated with the game only one objection to officiating and it isnt done by all officials. As an official scorer I have been asked at halftime by some officials what the foul count was on both teams and if anyone was in foul trouble. Now I understand the officials have the right to look at the official book but wouldnt it be better if they simply asked the official scorer if there were any problems with the book rather than look at foul count? Not all officials do this but those that do raise some eyebrows at the scoring table especially if coaches overhear them. Im not even sure what the UIL allows the referees to do and maybe you could PM me and fill me in on this. I would appreciate it. My thought is I would like the officials to check with the official scorer at half and just see if everything is OK with the book and there are no discrepencies. I dont want them to know who has how many fouls ;) (Help me out here)

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="picnroll" post="783000" timestamp="1269705371"]
[quote author=OLDREF link=topic=67513.msg779123#msg779123 date=1269019732]
Sorry Picnroll......talking about the 3a game..heard a couple of rumbles on this site...but could not find anything on tx hoops....
[/quote]
3 or 4 postings on March 12-13. They name the Dallas chapter in the 3A Girls Championship game. It was pretty poor and just looking at second hand info(which I usually dont do) the posters say the Officials were reprimanded immediately after the game........With no personal interest in the outcome I would have to say it was a below average job but again not an easy job to do.
I have in all the years I have been associated with the game only one objection to officiating and it isnt done by all officials. [b]As an official scorer I have been asked at halftime by some officials what the foul count was on both teams and if anyone was in foul trouble[/b]. Now I understand the officials have the right to look at the official book but wouldnt it be better if they simply asked the official scorer if there were any problems with the book rather than look at foul count? Not all officials do this but those that do raise some eyebrows at the scoring table especially if coaches overhear them. Im not even sure what the UIL allows the referees to do and maybe you could PM me and fill me in on this. I would appreciate it. My thought is I would like the officials to check with the official scorer at half and just see if everything is OK with the book and there are no discrepencies. I dont want them to know who has how many fouls ;) (Help me out here)
[/quote]


What I put in bold in your post is very disturbing to me. I hope this is not regularly going on.

[mactiger]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="783002" timestamp="1269705705"]
[quote author=picnroll link=topic=67513.msg783000#msg783000 date=1269705371]
[quote author=OLDREF link=topic=67513.msg779123#msg779123 date=1269019732]
Sorry Picnroll......talking about the 3a game..heard a couple of rumbles on this site...but could not find anything on tx hoops....
[/quote]
3 or 4 postings on March 12-13. They name the Dallas chapter in the 3A Girls Championship game. It was pretty poor and just looking at second hand info(which I usually dont do) the posters say the Officials were reprimanded immediately after the game........With no personal interest in the outcome I would have to say it was a below average job but again not an easy job to do.
I have in all the years I have been associated with the game only one objection to officiating and it isnt done by all officials. [b]As an official scorer I have been asked at halftime by some officials what the foul count was on both teams and if anyone was in foul trouble[/b]. Now I understand the officials have the right to look at the official book but wouldnt it be better if they simply asked the official scorer if there were any problems with the book rather than look at foul count? Not all officials do this but those that do raise some eyebrows at the scoring table especially if coaches overhear them. Im not even sure what the UIL allows the referees to do and maybe you could PM me and fill me in on this. I would appreciate it. My thought is I would like the officials to check with the official scorer at half and just see if everything is OK with the book and there are no discrepencies. I dont want them to know who has how many fouls ;) (Help me out here)
[/quote]


What I put in bold in your post is very disturbing to me. I hope this is not regularly going on.
[/quote]


I am also an official scorer and this happens regularly at games.  I also find it disturbing and have complained about it. 

[OLDREF]

I will see that this is brought before the board in the fall!!!!!!!Thanks for your imput

[JMT]

I didn't attend as many games as I usually do, but the officiating I saw was a bit better than usual. As long as Grady Dale isn't one of the officials at The Drum I'm cool with them sending out Mickey Mouse to do a game.

[The Cook]

[quote name="OLDREF" post="783134" timestamp="1269729038"]
I will see that this is brought before the board in the fall!!!!!!!Thanks for your imput
[/quote]
For what????