Pitch Count- Pitching Recovery Discussion

[GTBBaseball]

Here are a few topics below that I am called or emailed about over the long haul of a season,.
Ill place the topics below and leave open for discussion, Please dont point out any one player-Coach-Instructor-etc in particular, thats NOT the point here, but more about the impact, pros n cons about the following and to give insight to others with respect to pitching routines in general. Also please dont compliment certain individuals etc, for it then leads to a possible negative comment in response.

Pitch counts per game (Whats the golden number not to surpass. 85, 100, 120, 140??? and why not? or why so?)
Total Appearances per season (1 appearance? 2 appearances per week every week of the season?)
Rest Days between extended innings (example, 7innings on a Tuesday then back again relief appearance on a Thursday or Friday?)
Off day routines (What routines are pitchers doing on off days, running, long toss, flat grounds, etc...)
Over use of the arm day in day out at training facilities or practice (Working with high school team at practice, then going to a facility later that night to work out more, etc...)
Transfer from High School season to summer season to fall season, total innings, rest days, games....(Total appearances within a calendar year?)
Is icing the arm after pitching a good thing or case by case?

And feel free to bring up your own questions concerning the rest, recovery of pitchers, to bring an awareness to everyone.

Chris Fackler

[tupac7]

Cy Young
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For other uses, see Cy Young (disambiguation).
Cy Young


Pitcher
Born: March 29, 1867(1867-03-29)
Gilmore, Ohio
Died: November 4, 1955 (aged 88)
Newcomerstown, Ohio
Batted: Right Threw: Right 
MLB debut
August 6, 1890 for the Cleveland Spiders
Last MLB appearance
October 11, 1911 for the Boston Rustlers
Career statistics
[b]Win-Loss record    511–316 [/b]
[b]Earned run average    2.63 [/b] Strikeouts    2,803
Teams
Cleveland Spiders (1890–1898)
St. Louis Perfectos (1899–1900)
Boston Americans / Red Sox (1901–1908)
Cleveland Naps (1909–1911)
Boston Rustlers (1911)

Career highlights and awards
World Series champion (1903)
Pitched a Perfect Game on May 5, 1904 against the Philadelphia Athletics
Major League Baseball All-Century Team
MLB Records

[b]511 career wins
7,354 2/3 innings pitched
815 career games started
749 career complete games
[/b] Member of the National
  Baseball Hall of Fame   

[Gametime23]

Pitch count depends on the kid and how in shape he is. Pitching has a lot to do with the legs, abs and back which most parents are unaware of. Some kids have rubber arms, I did and could throw whenever and how much ever needed. I relied on my legs and not my arm. Good weight traing and conditioning allows kids to throw more pitches.
Appearances per season depend on age and time that has previously been spent on the mound. I believe through a career this usually increases till a kids junior or senior year where it peaks until college.
The extended innings thing depends on the kid again, if they are stiff no I would not throw them. I would not throw them period unless it was a must need and they would have to feel good to be on the mound at that point.
Off days- day after needs distance run and some abs and maybe a few sprints, throw lightly. everyday long toss if they can get their arms into that kinda shape because that adds velocity and longevity. Either flat ground a day or two before the outing to find the mit and fine tune mechanics.
Yeah there can be overuse when having practice then going elsewhere, but also when going to an outside source they should know not to overuse it, but to get the most of the training in the offseason.
The Seasonal Switch- I would say get the bulk in during the spring and summer and fall mainly train the body intensely.
Ice Ice and Ice good for everyone. All ice does is stop swelling of muscles due to inflammation. It is needed after the game, not go home and get it because you let too much time lapse.

Just a few of my opinions and uses in a succssful high school and college career and now coach.

[Ty Cobb]

[quote name="Gametime23" post="787706" timestamp="1270753867"]
Pitch count depends on the kid and how in shape he is. Pitching has a lot to do with the legs, abs and back which most parents are unaware of.  I relied on my legs and not my arm. Good weight traing and conditioning allows kids to throw more pitches.

everyday long toss if they can get their arms into that kinda shape because that adds velocity and longevity.

[/quote]


Good write up.  These are the points that I wish everyone, especially players, would get through their heads. 

[TLB0]

I know its a little off subject but I'm curious what is the opinion of pitch count of younger kids and when should they start throwing breaking balls.

[Gametime23]

Younger kids less pitches and with the breaking ball tend to lay off it during major growth spurts. Different kids mature earlier than others. Teach a good changeup first then breaking ball. The changeup is the best pitch in baseball if thrown right. It makes the fastball seem unnhittable. Kids have growth pllates they can hurt thats why I say wait till 12-14 maybe, 14 being the latest because they need to have a little feel for it going into high school.

[juskillenit89]

Gametime,  regarding long toss, when I was brought up it was taught long toss as said produces velocity and stamina.  For the last couple of years I have heard conflicting statements about long toss actually doing what I have believed for so long. 

Have you seen any studies or any info that back up what you have said and I have believed to be true?

I would also say that the type of pitcher, power, finese or breaking ball specialist comes into play when addressing pitches allowed and total game innings.

[Gametime23]

Well I will tell you in college I long tossed every day. I topped out at 88 in high school and typically threw between 84-86. In college as I long tossed more and more I threw harder, by my second year to juco I threw 88-92 consistently and topped out at 95. Here is some other things. If long tossing is done right you gain arm strengh to throw harder, also mechanics have to be in tune. Bad mechanics lead to loss of velocity.

http://baseballtips.com/longtoss.html

[espn2]

Here is an interesting article that goes along with this thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/sports/baseball/26score.html

[Gametime23]

I know that article pretty much said its ok to throw curveballs, but what was not really pushed is fatigue leads to bad mechanics which inturn leads to injury. Throwing a curveball properly does not bother the elbow but when the elbow drops and the hand gets on the side or below the ball is when elbow is bothered by the curve.

[espn2]

IMO. What the article is really saying is "all things in moderation."

[Gametime23]

That is what the Bible says about almost all things.