Where are the trout

[643]

Legally, I don't see how the guards can, also I have been run off from the bulkhead at the CG station, in the yrs past I have always picked up a few flounder against the bulkhead, now they run you off and I do leave cuz their 50cal trumps my Glock...

[tvc184]

[quote name="643" post="823062" timestamp="1281009895"]
[size=10pt][b]Legally, I don't see how the guards can[/b][/size], also I have been run off from the bulkhead at the CG station, in the yrs past I have always picked up a few flounder against the bulkhead, now they run you off and I do leave cuz their 50cal trumps my Glock...
[/quote]

I don't know if they can or can't in this situation but I think it is possible for the law to allow them to do that. Navigable waterways are controlled by federal law and they can set what waters are used for. The feds can set all rules for the rights and uses of those waterways, even if contained entirely within a state.

The states have the right to make laws that control the use of such waterways also just like with other laws. In other words, you can have dual jurisdiction however, either one can make something against the law and the other generally cannot trump that law. Now the feds could make a specific law that overrides state law such as if the feds said something like, "A state cannot make new laws regarding blah blah blah". An example of dual jurisdiction is that the federal government does not have laws on armed robbery (called Aggravated Robbery in Texas) but they do have laws on bank robberies because they are federally insured. Texas naturally has those Agg Robbery laws. In a bank robbery, they appear to conflict as Texas law on a bank robbery does not match federal law on bank robbery. In such a case the feds can prosecute under their laws or the state can prosecute under their laws or both can prosecute. They have dual jurisdiction with different statutes. Texas law cannot stop federal bank robbery laws and federal law cannot stop Texas's right to make their own robbery laws. It is the same in navigable waterways. Even is something is not against the law in Texas (using navigable waterways), that does not stop the feds from making a more restrictive law.

The United States Code are all laws in the USA or the equivalent of the Texas Penal Code, Parks and Wildlife Code, etc. The US Code gives the federal government control over all federal waters which is all navigable waters. It has been upheld in court under the Commerce Clause part of the Constitution.

The federal law is restrictive enough in use that there is even a federal law dealing with the Sabine Ship Channel. That's right folks, the federal government has a law that specifically names Port Arthur and Sabine Pass in navigable waterways, which coincidentally is the very waterway that we are talking about. There are also laws pertaining to safety zones around military installations and other vital infrastructure of which Sabine Pass has plenty. Here is part of the law from the USC. It says the waterways are free to be used by the public BUT Congress shall have control to make laws pertaining to protection, maintenance, etc.

[size=10pt][b]United States Code
TITLE 33 > CHAPTER 1 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 12
§ 12. Port Arthur Ship Canal
After there shall be conveyed to the United States, free of cost, a valid title to the line of water communication between Taylors Bayou and Sabine Pass, in the State of Texas, known as the Port Arthur Ship Canal,.......................the said waterways shall thereupon become free public waters of the United States, and be subject to the laws enacted by Congress for the maintenance, preservation, protection, and regulation of navigable waters: [/b][/size]

The reason for federal control is obvious if you think about it. If it did not have such laws, Texas could for example, stop the military shipments from Beaumont to the Iraq and Afghan wars or all oil. The feds have to have control over such waterways. The words maintenance, preservation and protection gives the Congress wide latitude in making laws.

Back to the main question about navigable waterways and fishing in Sabine Pass. The federal government has the right to control all navigable waterways in general and specifically has a law anyway for portions of the ship channel. Texas also has navigable waterway laws that says a private entity cannot block a navigable waterway from the public if that waterway has public access. That came up a few years back in this area when some people that owned land on either side of some local bayous and tributaries tried to block access to duck hunters by using barbed wire. They were under the assumption that since they owned all land on either side of the waterway, they could block it. Texas laws says no, it has to remain open. That law however has nothing to do with federal law restricting use for safety or commerce purposes.

Clear as mud?

[PNG Proud]

But the stupid thing is that I can go rent a slip there and fish all I want...rag on my head and all!  It's all about the money!


BTW,  heading to the jetties tomorrow.  Will let ya know how I do.

[bullets13]

i actually talked to a guy in the coast guard about fishing by the station today.  he didn't really know about a rule one way or another.  the only real problem i have is that there isn't even a sign up.

[643]

TVC, the case was concerning Blind Bayou off Big Hill, you are correct as the wealthy landowners took on your ave duck hunters and LOST BUT the law made it perfectly clear on the land where you could be charged with tresspassing IF your dog ventured outside of the waterway. I too was thinking the CG would use 'interstate commerce' in protecting the ship channel. In the past I have had coasties come out and talk with us while we were fishing in front of the bulkhead, now they will be out there before your anchor hits the bottom, and their not comming out to talk. Something else I have been witness to lately is the CG escorts of ships in and out, all but 1 I have seen were the kind of ship that loads from the back and sides normally with military equipt, BUT last week we were stopped for what looked like a normal tanker comming in, the CG will not let you cross ahead nor pass the ship, what gets me is Ahab could place a RPG or whatever rite in the wheelhouse from most anywhere along the channel from Sabine to downtown Beaumont...Your correct on the "clear as mud" statement. I cant wait on the LNG plant to get up and running>>>talk about a complete shutdown of the channel..... 

[643]

[quote name="PNG Proud" post="823272" timestamp="1281057700"]
But the stupid thing is that I can go rent a slip there and fish all I want...rag on my head and all!  It's all about the money!


BTW,  heading to the jetties tomorrow.  Will let ya know how I do.
[/quote]When I first got a slip at the SPA, you could fish, crab from the bank which was good BUT on most every occassion I witnessed locals inside running crabtraps, fishing ect. THEN they they banned all fishing, crabbing, smoking because it was getting out of hand when infact all they had to do is restrict it to the slipholders, you can still do the above BUT you have to do it from your boat, there was some good flounder fishing along the bulheads, my grandson caught his first flounder in there before the ban. BTW it was hard to loose a bait on the La side of the jetties yesterday... 

[PNG Proud]

[quote name="643" post="823333" timestamp="1281102153"]
[quote author=PNG Proud link=topic=70019.msg823272#msg823272 date=1281057700]
But the stupid thing is that I can go rent a slip there and fish all I want...rag on my head and all!  It's all about the money!


BTW,  heading to the jetties tomorrow.  Will let ya know how I do.
[/quote]When I first got a slip at the SPA, you could fish, crab from the bank which was good BUT on most every occassion I witnessed locals inside running crabtraps, fishing ect. THEN they they banned all fishing, crabbing, smoking because it was getting out of hand when infact all they had to do is restrict it to the slipholders, you can still do the above BUT you have to do it from your boat, there was some good flounder fishing along the bulheads, my grandson caught his first flounder in there before the ban. BTW it was hard to loose a bait on the La side of the jetties yesterday... 
[/quote]



That's what I was saying about being a slip owner.  If I rented there, I'd be good to go.  Makes no sense, unless they do extensive background checks before renting you your slip.
Now on to the report...

The water at the jetties wasn't too clear, and every weather report that I listened to called for SW winds,5-10 mph....WRONG!  The winds were brutal!...At least 20 mph.  Very tough fishing on the jetties early in am.  No shortage of sheepsheads, but trout were scarce...even on live shrimp.
Bright spot was that during our search, we did a bit of exploring and found a spot where we caught flounder, trout, reds (another Grand Slam for me) and 28 very nice crabs.  I even had THREE break-offs from a freight train redfish.  Turned out to be a good day for my me and my son.

And sorry, can't reveal "the spot".

[westend1]

Going to try one of the lighted piers on Pleasure Island tonight.  I'll let you know.

[liltex]

Where's a good place to set up 1,000 watt lights w/a generator in that area @ night to fish.Looking for a spot when they close rollover in the future +my son works @ Dupont nearby but doesn't know the fishin spots.

[Guest rykerx144]

[quote name="westend1" post="823571" timestamp="1281198463"]
Going to try one of the lighted piers on Pleasure Island tonight.  I'll let you know.
[/quote]

where ya going to be and what time.  ill be in the area too

[643]

For lites I was looking at the end of the boat ramp La side (looks very good) for using a gen, I have set up on the fish pass for Kieth lake but the tide was wrong IMO for catching. While fishing the other nite I saw a set on the end of Umphrey pk in the chanel, Last nite on the way home there was a set on the side the hiway just S of the ICW bridge with a set of the side of the hiway. I have also seen m a cpl of times set up at chicken gut crossing ;D I have had best luck on each side of tide just when it slows, whats you guys opinion on the best time. 

[westend1]

[quote name="rykerx144" post="823619" timestamp="1281216637"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=70019.msg823571#msg823571 date=1281198463]
Going to try one of the lighted piers on Pleasure Island tonight.  I'll let you know.
[/quote]

where ya going to be and what time.   ill be in the area too
[/quote]

Rolled in at 3 this morning.  Tons of sandtrout.  4 of us caught probably 15-20 keeper specks, but it took a long time to get them.  I have never seen so many schooling baby gafftops.  Must have been a million of those things under our lights all night.

[liltex]

Left out of the Anahuac Wildlife Refruge east bay boat ramp @ dusk sat.10-16.We had to trim up the 50 hp yamaha on a 17' carolina skiff and still had to use push pole to get out in the 1st 100 yds till we could float.Ran over to the boliver shoreline then out to frenchie's reef.We anchored,set up the 2 -1,000 watt stage lts.and caught only a few lg.gafftop and 6 nice whiting on live shrimp.My son got tired and slept thru the 3:30 to daylight bite as the tide was moving toward a high.I was catching 2 @a time on a wh/glow tandem rig.I filled a 48 qt.ice chest w/sandtrout to 17"by 6:00 am.The dead awoke and caught a sandy & when he opened the ice chest he said why didn't you wake me.I tried 5 times.We stayed another 2 hrs.and filled all the bait wells.I quit counting cleaned trout @ 100.Odd we did not catch a speck,flounder,red,croaker,stingray or drum.We're gonna have a fish fry soon.My son wanted 1 more good trip before heading back overseas to help build a gov.project in China.

[tvc184]

I have been snagging a lot of sand trout in the ship channel near Port Arthur. A bunch of small specks and sandies.

[liltex]

Caught any on those bead baits?

[tvc184]

[quote name="liltex" post="880461" timestamp="1287493569"]
Caught any on those bead baits?
[/quote]

All on soft plastics for me while fishing for specks.

[bullets13]

hippy and i went out yesterday with my dad and uncle and we caught 21 sand trout, 2 reds, and 1 black drum.  we would've caught more but we had to go in because of the lightning, and by the time it settled down, the bite had cooled.  the nice thing about the sand trout is that most of them were spec-sized.  they averaged close to 15 inches a piece. 

[thetragichippy]

[quote name="bullets13" post="894807" timestamp="1288721147"]
hippy and i went out yesterday with my dad and uncle and we caught 21 sand trout, 2 reds, and 1 black drum.  we would've caught more but we had to go in because of the lightning, and by the time it settled down, the bite had cooled.  the nice thing about the sand trout is that most of them were spec-sized.  they averaged close to 15 inches a piece. 
[/quote]

Not to mention an arms throw from the dock  ;D

[tvc184]

Saturday morning might be a good day to be on the lake after the wind settles. A lot of deer hunters might be out for opening weekend and others won't brave the cool morning.

Could be a great day for chasing birds.

[PNG Proud]

I went in the North end Sat. morn.  Wind was kinda light, but increased as the morning progressed.  Not near as many birds as I expected to find, and really had to work for them.  Caught around 10 trout and 2 reds,  but only kept 4/1.  My 13 yr. old caught a 25:" red and keeper trout at the same time.  He had a blast, and that made my day too.

[643]

Birds in Taylors dailey with specks in sand trout under them along with a red every now and then...

[bh89-2]

From opne end of trinty to the other........tons of birds and boats.  Easily can get your limit in an hour or less. 

[PNG Proud]

[quote name="643" post="916335" timestamp="1290431753"]
Birds in Taylors dailey with specks in sand trout under them along with a red every now and then...
[/quote]



Taylor's Outfall Canal?  Haven't fished there in yrs.  Don't like parking under that overpass.

[tvc184]

That's always been a hot spot though. It can really be as good as any location when the timing is right.

[PNG Proud]

You're right about that tvc.  And always out of the wind.  Great place for small boats.