Kiss basketball goodbye in HF!!!

[True Blue]

I am not cry at all, I dont care if they lift a ton of weights at HF. But the fact is still the same, the teams in the area that have a winning BB program or not in offseason football weight lifting classes during BB season. And that is what this topic is about, you have no prof that it helps a BB program at all.

[mustang]

I listed several schools above... I believe one of them even has a state championship a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.

[setxguru]

I can't speak for Silsbee and HJ, but WOS has been to a Basketball State Tourney in the last five years and they lift in season.  Maybe if Lebron and Durrant would lift they would actually win a CHAMPIONSHIP, intead of watching people that do lift win them.  It is hard for me to believe that Lebron James doesn't lift weights.  EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES

[Guest speechless]

lebron doesn't do traditional weight lifting he does sport specific as most professional athletes do


sure those pros lift but go figure what their time spent lifting is versus their skill development time is

aint even close

[stevenash]

[quote name="speechless" post="814886" timestamp="1277673577"]
lebron doesn't do traditional weight lifting he does sport specific as most professional athletes do


sure those pros lift but go figure what their time spent lifting is versus their skill development time is

aint even close
[/quote]

The weight work came later after skills had been developed to the fullest because if the skill is not there, it is totally irrelevant how stong you are.

[True Blue]

[quote name="tigerguy" post="814877" timestamp="1277670921"]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.

[ST413]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814905" timestamp="1277683781"]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

Maybe tigerguy is wrong,  I have no idea whgat goes on during the season at any school.  However you Truly Clueless have no business at all to tell anyone to get their facts straight.  When you have proven you seldom know the facts.

[stevenash]

[quote name="ST413" post="814907" timestamp="1277684191"]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814905#msg814905 date=1277683781]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

Maybe tigerguy is wrong,  I have no idea whgat goes on during the season at any school.  However you Truly Clueless have no business at all to tell anyone to get their facts straight.  When you have proven you seldom know the facts.
[/quote] Consider leaving out bashing true blue and acknowledge the FACT that there is  relatively LITTLE success in basketball at schools that practice universal off season. 

[mustang]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814905" timestamp="1277683781"]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

yes babyblue I do have an idea (not an ideal) of what I'm talking about.  The school's that I listed do have universal offseason. 

Does crying and whining help teams win? 

[mustang]

[quote name="stevenash" post="814908" timestamp="1277684695"]
[quote author=ST413 link=topic=70692.msg814907#msg814907 date=1277684191]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814905#msg814905 date=1277683781]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

Maybe tigerguy is wrong,  I have no idea whgat goes on during the season at any school.  However you Truly Clueless have no business at all to tell anyone to get their facts straight.  When you have proven you seldom know the facts.
[/quote] Consider leaving out bashing true blue and acknowledge the FACT that there is  relatively LITTLE success in basketball at schools that practice universal off season. 
[/quote]

That is your opinion.  The FACT is that schools can have lots of success even with having the basketball players pick up a weight.  The universal strength/speed training benefits all.

You basketballers act like  a bunch of hens cacklin in the yard. 

[Wildcatter]

I do know that most football players take about a month to get into basketball playing shape when they come in for football so if the workouts are the same then why do the football guys struggle?  No one has said not to lift, just why would you max on game day?  Basketball workouts are not about the max weight, its about getting quicker, jumping higher, and working on your skill set such as free throws, ball handling etc.  It has nothing to do with grass drills and such.  If it is such a great idea then on Friday afternoon go to your field house and be a spotter while they max out on weights.  You will have easy job cause no one will be there.  It's funny, I grew up in basketball country and it is the total opposite as far as positions.  Most schools have separate position for AD.  Of course an AD wants success as long as it does not overshadow their program.

[ST413]

[quote name="Wildcatter" post="814911" timestamp="1277686250"]
[b]I do know that most football players take about a month to get into basketball playing shape when they come in for football so if the workouts are the same then why do the football guys struggle?  No one has said not to lift, just why would you max on game day?  Basketball workouts are not about the max weight, its about getting quicker, jumping higher, and working on your skill set such as free throws, ball handling etc.  It has nothing to do with grass drills and such.[/b]  If it is such a great idea then on Friday afternoon go to your field house and be a spotter while they max out on weights.  You will have easy job cause no one will be there.  It's funny, I grew up in basketball country and it is the total opposite as far as positions.  Most schools have separate position for AD.  Of course an AD wants success as long as it does not overshadow their program.
[/quote]

Now that is definately a statement I agree with.

[mustang]

[quote name="ST413" post="814914" timestamp="1277686673"]
[quote author=Wildcatter link=topic=70692.msg814911#msg814911 date=1277686250]
[b]I do know that most football players take about a month to get into basketball playing shape when they come in for football so if the workouts are the same then why do the football guys struggle?  No one has said not to lift, just why would you max on game day?  Basketball workouts are not about the max weight, its about getting quicker, jumping higher, and working on your skill set such as free throws, ball handling etc.  It has nothing to do with grass drills and such.[/b]  If it is such a great idea then on Friday afternoon go to your field house and be a spotter while they max out on weights.  You will have easy job cause no one will be there.  It's funny, I grew up in basketball country and it is the total opposite as far as positions.  Most schools have separate position for AD.  Of course an AD wants success as long as it does not overshadow their program.
[/quote]

Now that is definately a statement I agree with.
[/quote]

I agree as well.  I don't know of any schools that do grass drills in the wintertime or max out on a game day.  That is a myth conjured up by the basketballers to make AD's and football coaches look bad. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="tigerguy" post="814915" timestamp="1277687239"]
[quote author=ST413 link=topic=70692.msg814914#msg814914 date=1277686673]
[quote author=Wildcatter link=topic=70692.msg814911#msg814911 date=1277686250]
[b]I do know that most football players take about a month to get into basketball playing shape when they come in for football so if the workouts are the same then why do the football guys struggle?  No one has said not to lift, just why would you max on game day?  Basketball workouts are not about the max weight, its about getting quicker, jumping higher, and working on your skill set such as free throws, ball handling etc.  It has nothing to do with grass drills and such.[/b]  If it is such a great idea then on Friday afternoon go to your field house and be a spotter while they max out on weights.  You will have easy job cause no one will be there.  It's funny, I grew up in basketball country and it is the total opposite as far as positions.  Most schools have separate position for AD.  Of course an AD wants success as long as it does not overshadow their program.
[/q
Now that is definately a statement I agree with.
[/quote]

I agree as well.  I don't know of any schools that do grass drills in the wintertime or max out on a game day.  That is a myth conjured up by the basketballers to make AD's and football coaches look bad. 
[/quote]

The basketballeers dont have to make the ADs and football coaches look bad (as far as basketball is concerened) In most coases they pull down the basketball progrmas (relative to others) and look bad themselves.

[stevenash]

[quote name="tigerguy" post="814910" timestamp="1277685495"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg814908#msg814908 date=1277684695]
[quote author=ST413 link=topic=70692.msg814907#msg814907 date=1277684191]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814905#msg814905 date=1277683781]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

Maybe tigerguy is wrong,  I have no idea whgat goes on during the season at any school.  However you Truly Clueless have no business at all to tell anyone to get their facts straight.  When you have proven you seldom know the facts.
[/quote] Consider leaving out bashing true blue and acknowledge the FACT that there is  relatively LITTLE success in basketball at schools that practice universal off season. 
[/quote]

That is your opinion.  The FACT is that schools can have lots of success even with having the basketball players pick up a weight.  The universal strength/speed training benefits all.

You basketballers act like  a bunch of hens cacklin in the yard. 
[/quote]If you are so good at FACTS, go ahead and give me the names of three CONSISTENTLY successfull basketball programs in this area that use universal offseason.

[knows2much]

What is going on here?...  A comment was made that lifting during BB season was bad/unneccessary/pointless/stupid or whatever the word was.  That in itself is a stupid statement.  Go find any successful high school team, or any college/pro team that doesn't do consistent weight lifting.  You wont find many.  And I saw a comment about running a 4.1 benching 250 but cant hit a 15 foot jumper....who cares!  I'll take 5 guys that have a 4.1 40 time and bench 250 ANYDAY.  I went to several Kountze games this yr.  Very few 15ft jumpers even attempted.  Why?...B/C they were STRONG/FAST enough to scare teams into bad decisions, FAST enough to go get the steal, and STRONG enough to jump up and [u]dunk[/u] it on the other end.  Holy Crap.  If you don't want weight lifting going on during BB season then get a teacher certificate and become an AD.  Good luck having much success

[Wildcatter]

And who won that state tourney, a group of kids that were fundamentally sound and knew the game better.  How did Kountze do at State tourney?  Not bashing Kountze just making a point.  So, according to your argument, you don't need a qb or rb or recievers so long as there are strong lineman?  That would be like saying that a bb team does not need shooters or rebounders just people who are strong and can't throw one in the ocean.  We could just play to 10 makem takem would be your theory.  If you never have a chance to work on the basics how can you get better?  At a certain point it does not matter how good of athletes you have you are gonna lose in basketball.  Look at HJ on a court when they walk out and tell me why they are such a good team.  The reason is simple, those kids know exactly where to be on the floor, where a rebound is going to come off the rim etc..  It's not beacuse the old fb coach had them in weight training on game day.

[knows2much]

Valid point.  But I'm not saying you don't need any skill at all.  And BTW, did I say I could win with 5 strong, fast linemen.  I said 4.1 speed.  There isn't a high school lineman alive that can run like that.  And here's my point.  What does lifting weights during the athletic period have to do with working on basketball skills during basketball practice.  I'm a believer that during the athletic period (accept for a few acceptions: games, etc.) that kids are in an ATHLETIC CLASS to work on being BETTER ATHLETES.  And sport specific practice should be after school hours.

And besides, what is the topic of this thread?..[b]KISS BASKETBALL GOODBYE IN HF!!![/b] Implying that because they have to lift weights during BB season.  You're talking about who won the state championship.  I'm talking about being successful.  Face it.  HF needs to worry about trying to be successful first.  [b][u]EVERY[/u][/b] team in this area that was successful had better ATHLETES than their apponents.  With the acception of 1....Spurger.  Spurger was the only true "skill" team that had good success this year.  What happened to them?  They got to the state tourney and faced Cayuga...a team with 2 D1 athletes on it and several other just good athletes...and got SMOKED.  I bet Cayuga didn't hit a whole lot of 15ft jumpers or worry about where the ball came off the rim.

[Wildcatter]

Actually, I was at the game and they hit alot of 15 footers.  My point is this and pretty simple I think.  If I play just football, should I do a basketball workout during the period or do a football one?  Does a football player need to know how to take a charge or set a pick and roll?  Does a basketball player need to know how to do grass drills?  I understand that you have after school, but why punish all other sports?  During baseball season do a track workout, during football do a cross country, and football during basketball.  This way all of your programs are screwed up.  You can't win with lineman if you don't have a qb that run or throw, they block, someone else has to hold on to the ball, that's why they are lineman, they have a job to do but if the others can't do theirs they will not be a good team.

[Guest speechless]

actually the ONLY reason Cayuga won it all this year was because of a 6'5", 175 lb. freshman who doesn't play football who came in and hit 5 threes in the championship game....because their DI football players couldn't make a jump shot...they won because of a players skill to hit 3 pointers because they faced a team that refused to allow them to beat them with their athletes getting to the basket


"every team in this area was successful because they had better athletes"  PLEASE!  HJ basketball team gets laughed off the floor of almost every playoff opponent they faced

the ONLY reason HJ beat Navasota 4 years in a row is because Navasota has universal off-season and those kids don't get the gym time that HJ kids do and their former head coach will tell you that...AND HE COACHED FOOTBALL.


Also, you say the athletic period is for athletic training....then tell me does that go on during football season?  NOPE!  What do they do during the athletic period during football season?  Monday, game plan walk through...Tuesday lift....Wednesday skull...Thursday special teams...Friday walk through....Saturday lift

What do they do during basketball season?  Monday lift.....Tuesday agilities.....Wednesday lift....Thursday agilities....Friday lift....

See the problem??  No time in the gym during the athletic period for a sport that requires skill much more than athleticism to win....even if the bball players dont have to lift on game days.....those are not days teams practice....they are walking through going over game plans

[mustang]

[quote name="stevenash" post="814922" timestamp="1277689420"]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814910#msg814910 date=1277685495]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg814908#msg814908 date=1277684695]
[quote author=ST413 link=topic=70692.msg814907#msg814907 date=1277684191]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814905#msg814905 date=1277683781]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814877#msg814877 date=1277670921]
I listed several schools above...[b] I believe one of them even has a state championship [/b] a few years ago. 

LOL the poor little pity party continues.
[/quote] That statment shows you have no ideal what you are talking about. My wifes nephew was the leader on that team and my son played on the 2000 team for Evadale and I know they never touch a weight during BB season. And I know the 3 coaches that took the EC teams to the state games, and they never lifted during the season. So you need to get you fact stright before you make a statment like that. This Topic is about offseason football workouts during BB season, and you still have not proven were it has help any team. If you are OK with having a average team in every sport and going 1 or maybe 2 games into the playoffs thats fine, but some wont to have verygood team and make several trips to Austin. JMO for what is worth.
[/quote]

Maybe tigerguy is wrong,  I have no idea whgat goes on during the season at any school.  However you Truly Clueless have no business at all to tell anyone to get their facts straight.  When you have proven you seldom know the facts.
[/quote] Consider leaving out bashing true blue and acknowledge the FACT that there is  relatively LITTLE success in basketball at schools that practice universal off season. 
[/quote]

That is your opinion.  The FACT is that schools can have lots of success even with having the basketball players pick up a weight.  The universal strength/speed training benefits all.

You basketballers act like  a bunch of hens cacklin in the yard. 
[/quote]If you are so good at FACTS, go ahead and give me the names of three CONSISTENTLY successfull basketball programs in this area that use universal offseason.
[/quote]LOL i have .. Evadale, East Chambers, Newton, Woodville.  What more do you want?  You simply have it in your head that universal is bad.  Its not.. I agree that having to max out on a game day would be bad but I'm saying that it doesn't happen.  No A.D. in this state (even though football is king) would have a kid max out on a game day.  But, knowing that all kids in your athletic program are lifting is a good t hing.  The A.D. knows that each and every kid is undergoing weight training.  That is his job.

[mustang]

[quote name="stevenash" post="814920" timestamp="1277689313"]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814915#msg814915 date=1277687239]
[quote author=ST413 link=topic=70692.msg814914#msg814914 date=1277686673]
[quote author=Wildcatter link=topic=70692.msg814911#msg814911 date=1277686250]
[b]I do know that most football players take about a month to get into basketball playing shape when they come in for football so if the workouts are the same then why do the football guys struggle?  No one has said not to lift, just why would you max on game day?  Basketball workouts are not about the max weight, its about getting quicker, jumping higher, and working on your skill set such as free throws, ball handling etc.  It has nothing to do with grass drills and such.[/b]  If it is such a great idea then on Friday afternoon go to your field house and be a spotter while they max out on weights.  You will have easy job cause no one will be there.  It's funny, I grew up in basketball country and it is the total opposite as far as positions.  Most schools have separate position for AD.  Of course an AD wants success as long as it does not overshadow their program.
[/quote]
Now that is definately a statement I agree with.
[/quote]

I agree as well.  I don't know of any schools that do grass drills in the wintertime or max out on a game day.  That is a myth conjured up by the basketballers to make AD's and football coaches look bad.  
[/quote]

The basketballeers dont have to make the ADs and football coaches look bad (as far as basketball is concerened) In most coases they pull down the basketball progrmas (relative to others) and look bad themselves.
[/quote]

That is a flat out lie.  Why do you have to make stuff up?  Can you not spell or were you drunk when you wrote this?

[Wildcatter]

Why call it universal off season if the other sports are IN SEASON?  Why not call it football off season so everyone else can do our program plan so that the football program can get better and my non football playing guys will have something to gripe about program?  I like it and think it will work.  ;D

[sleepy]

[quote name="speechless" post="814939" timestamp="1277694158"]
actually the ONLY reason Cayuga won it all this year was because of a 6'5", 175 lb. freshman who doesn't play football who came in and hit 5 threes in the championship game....because their DI football players couldn't make a jump shot...they won because of a players skill to hit 3 pointers because they faced a team that refused to allow them to beat them with their athletes getting to the basket


"every team in this area was successful because they had better athletes"  PLEASE!  HJ basketball team gets laughed off the floor of almost every playoff opponent they faced

the ONLY reason HJ beat Navasota 4 years in a row is because Navasota has universal off-season and those kids don't get the gym time that HJ kids do and their former head coach will tell you that...AND HE COACHED FOOTBALL.


Also, you say the athletic period is for athletic training....then tell me does that go on during football season?  NOPE!  What do they do during the athletic period during football season?  Monday, game plan walk through...Tuesday lift....Wednesday skull...Thursday special teams...Friday walk through....Saturday lift

What do they do during basketball season?  Monday lift.....Tuesday agilities.....Wednesday lift....Thursday agilities....Friday lift....

See the problem??  No time in the gym during the athletic period for a sport that requires skill much more than athleticism to win....even if the bball players dont have to lift on game days.....those are not days teams practice....they are walking through going over game plans



[/quote]

This post says it all.  Would love to see someone try to make a valid point against this one!

[knows2much]

Actually, I know the Spurger coach and got a chance to talk to him at a track meet.  I asked what happened in the semifinals game...he said, "It is almost impossible to beat a team that athletic with what I have."  2nd of all, I bet Coach Sutherland would dispute the only reason HJ beat Navasota in the playoffs is blah blah blah.  I think that the fact that the man has won more playoff games than anyone in the area and most in the state may have something to do with HJ winning any playoff games.  He knows how to win them plain and simple.  Kind of like Michigan State being in the final 4 6 of the last 12 years. None of that even matters.  I played on a high school team that was very successful and we all did the "offseason" workouts.  Yeah it made us stronger...yeah it made us faster...yeah I think it made us better.  I also played 4 years of college BASKETBALL...we lifted 3 times a week sometimes 4 ALL YEAR.  Before and after season we lifted for strength, speed, and stamina.  During the season we lifted to maintain, but we still lifted.

By the way...when you max out, you are actually only doing about 3 lifts.  Once again, if you are consitantly lifting it will have no affact on you.  I'm done arguing my point.  If any of you think someone's season is going down the drain because of strength training during the period then your just ignorant.