Kiss basketball goodbye in HF!!!

[sleepy]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="814998" timestamp="1277738177"]
As for universal training goes, this is how I feel and how some coaches that I know feel about it. I am in agreement with this following statement:


Universal off- season should be just that, workouts performed during each sports offseason. The basketball problem is this: the athletic period is when most of the peripheral and  basic skill work takes place ie.. inbounds plays, special situation work and plays, position specific work, rebounding,dribbling, and shooting drills, etc. In football much of this same time is spent working "peripherals" such as kickoffs, punts, returns (both k/o and punt) among others and in both sports team work is usually reserved for afterschool practices, (putting  all the work together). The way universal off -season is being run deprives other sports of this valuable time while allowing football to remain able to use this same valuable time. The other sports deserve to have this time as well when they are "in season".


This says it all.
[/quote]

Yes it does AAW!

[hddemon]

In Anahuac they do a universal offseason.  They made the playoffs in football. They made to the Regional Finals in basketball. They made the playoffs in Baseball and sent 23 kids to regionals in track.  They lift and do agility everyday but game day.  Universal offseason works.

[sleepy]

[quote name="football10" post="815025" timestamp="1277746852"]
In Anahuac they do a universal offseason.  They made the playoffs in football. They made to the Regional Finals in basketball. They made the playoffs in Baseball and sent 23 kids to regionals in track.  They lift and do agility everyday but game day.  Universal offseason works.
[/quote]

It works at the 2A level.  Not at 3A and above!

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="sleepy" post="815027" timestamp="1277747147"]
[quote author=football10 link=topic=70692.msg815025#msg815025 date=1277746852]
In Anahuac they do a universal offseason.  They made the playoffs in football. They made to the Regional Finals in basketball. They made the playoffs in Baseball and sent 23 kids to regionals in track.  They lift and do agility everyday but game day.  Universal offseason works.
[/quote]

It works at the 2A level.  Not at 3A and above!
[/quote]


So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)

[knows2much]

Barbers Hill's BB program was g.a.r.b.a.g.e. before Price got there.  During his time Barbers Hill averaged 13 district championships a year for the school.  Know how many of those champtionships were football?.... not many (if any I don't know)  And that's 3A/4A pal.
 
So the best thing I can say is that you might as well accept it and get used to it because Coach Price has had success with it before so he'll probably stick with it.  Like I said before, if you don't like.  Then get a teacher certification, become an AD, and run your school athletic program however you want to.

[stevenash]

[quote name="knows2much" post="815033" timestamp="1277748355"]
Barbers Hill's BB program was g.a.r.b.a.g.e. before Price got there.  During his time Barbers Hill averaged 13 district championships a year for the school.  Know how many of those champtionships were football?.... not many (if any I don't know)  And that's 3A/4A pal.
 
So the best thing I can say is that you might as well accept it and get used to it because Coach Price has had success with it before so he'll probably stick with it.  Like I said before, if you don't like.  Then get a teacher certification, become an AD, and run your school athletic program however you want to.
[/quote]

If my memory is correct, most of the basketball success came when it was a relatively large 3-a school.  Love your theory about getting my certificate, etc etc etc.  If you want to become an AD in Texas you almost HAVE to have a football background.  I have no thoughts, good or bad, about Mr. Price.  Never met hiim and know nothing about him.  I do know, however, that the great majority of successful baskteball programs do not employ universal off season.

[stevenash]

[quote name="football10" post="815025" timestamp="1277746852"]
In Anahuac they do a universal offseason.  They made the playoffs in football. They made to the Regional Finals in basketball. They made the playoffs in Baseball and sent 23 kids to regionals in track.  They lift and do agility everyday but game day.  Universal offseason works.
[/quote]

Yes, Anahuac had a great basketball season.  Can you say the same thing about each of the last five years?

[sleepy]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="815028" timestamp="1277747658"]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=70692.msg815027#msg815027 date=1277747147]
[quote author=football10 link=topic=70692.msg815025#msg815025 date=1277746852]
In Anahuac they do a universal offseason.  They made the playoffs in football. They made to the Regional Finals in basketball. They made the playoffs in Baseball and sent 23 kids to regionals in track.  They lift and do agility everyday but game day.  Universal offseason works.
[/quote]

It works at the 2A level.  Not at 3A and above!
[/quote]


So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

I am not calling it ok .........I am just saying that is what happens and teams can still win doing it because they face many other programs that do the same thing.

[knows2much]

You...may not have any thoughts about him good or bad.  But somebody does.  The whole reason that this thread was started is because of the implication that HF will have a downfall (haha..downfall) in the basketball program because of a universal weight program.  When the fact is that schools all over the place have had and are having success with it.  And will it win a state championship?...maybe, but probably not.  But that's not what I'm talking about.  HF could start practicing basketball right now and skip football.  But anything short of 1 or more incredible move-ins will not put HF anywhere close to a state title run.  

But they do have a shot at having some success.  And all I'm saying is that it's worked for Price before, (3A 4A or whatever they were when it happened) so give it a chance.  Weight lifting never hurt anybody no matter what season it's done in.

[Guest ECBucFan]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="815028" timestamp="1277747658"]
So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

Well, it works great for EC!  ;D

[sleepy]

[quote name="knows2much" post="815042" timestamp="1277750325"]
You...may not have any thoughts about him good or bad.  But somebody does.  The whole reason that this thread was started is because of the implication that HF will have a downfall (haha..downfall) in the basketball program because of a universal weight program.  When the fact is that schools all over the place have had and are having success with it.  And will it win a state championship?...maybe, but probably not.  But that's not what I'm talking about.  HF could start practicing basketball right now and skip football.  But anything short of 1 or more incredible move-ins will not put HF anywhere close to a state title run.  

But they do have a shot at having some success.  And all I'm saying is that it's worked for Price before, (3A 4A or whatever they were when it happened) so give it a chance.  Weight lifting never hurt anybody no matter what season it's done in.
[/quote]

It did not work for Price.  Barbers Hill has had no REAL success in basketball.  So that is not what I would call "working."

[sleepy]

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="815049" timestamp="1277752572"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=70692.msg815028#msg815028 date=1277747658]
So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

Well, it works great for EC!  ;D
[/quote]

Again.........It is working at EC..........working "great".......not hardly.  Ask the coach if they would have been better this year with 80 more hours of work on the basketball court and see what he says!

[stevenash]

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="815049" timestamp="1277752572"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=70692.msg815028#msg815028 date=1277747658]
So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

Well, it works great for EC!  ;D
[/quote]

If it is as great as some would have us believe, why isnt everybody using it? Successful  basketball coaches arent stupid.  If they see something that is beneficial, they most certainly will employ it.  I just want to remind you that when the game is tied in the last ten seconds, I want my guy who is shooting to have practiced that shot a million times and all of the strength in the world has no value at that point.  

[stevenash]

Do you believe that Larry Bird got all of his bulging muscles and blazing speed plus supreme vertical jumping ability from a universal program?  Does Paul Gasol look like he is a Universal Off Season product?  How about Lamar Odom and Paul Pierce? I will be the first to agree that weight training certainly enhances the effectiveness of the skills but the skills MUST come first and when the time allocated to a sport in high school is limited, I believe that the skills should have considerable priority over the strength.  All the pros already had the skills before they got to the NBA and the weight training (easy to do when you have no other job) is an augmentation.

[Guest speechless]

cayuga was brought up earlier

guess what....they hired their state champion basketball coach to be their new AD/head football coach a couple of months ago

first change he makes as head football coach, you guessed it, no more universal off-season

[Guest ECBucFan]

[quote name="sleepy" post="815051" timestamp="1277752767"]
[quote author=ECBucFan link=topic=70692.msg815049#msg815049 date=1277752572]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=70692.msg815028#msg815028 date=1277747658]
So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

Well, it works great for EC!  ;D
[/quote]

Again.........It is working at EC..........working "great".......not hardly.  Ask the coach if they would have been better [size=18pt]this year[/size] with 80 more hours of work on the basketball court and see what he says!
[/quote]

One year means almost nothing. Look at the past 15 years...  ;D

[sleepy]

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="815055" timestamp="1277753940"]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=70692.msg815051#msg815051 date=1277752767]
[quote author=ECBucFan link=topic=70692.msg815049#msg815049 date=1277752572]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=70692.msg815028#msg815028 date=1277747658]
So, it's okay if East Chambers and Kountze uses the universal theory. True Clueless, are you listening. ;)
[/quote]

Well, it works great for EC!  ;D
[/quote]

Again.........It is working at EC..........working "great".......not hardly.  Ask the coach if they would have been better [size=18pt]this year[/size] with 80 more hours of work on the basketball court and see what he says!
[/quote]

One year means almost nothing. Look at the past 15 years...  ;D
[/quote]

Are there any state championships in that 15 year period in any of the major sports?

[knows2much]

This is so frustrating!  Dis I say that having a universal weight program was the "best" thing to do?!! No!  I said that you can have success with it and that it doesn't hurt any basketball team being stronger and faster.  I had success with it as a player.  I see teams having success with it now.  Yes East Chambers consistently makes post season.  That is success.

You wanna bring up Cayuga again?  You just said that that state champ bb coach just did away with the universal off season.  Meaning that they had universal off season this year.  They won state!!  You said it not me.  There's proof right there that you can have success with it.  Plus....Cayuga had 2 D1 football players on the BB team this year.  Do you know what a D1 football player is?...an athletic specimen.  You can't tell me that had nothing to do with their success.

[sleepy]

[quote name="knows2much" post="815059" timestamp="1277754472"]
This is so frustrating!  Dis I say that having a universal weight program was the "best" thing to do?!! No!  I said that you can have success with it and that it doesn't hurt any basketball team being stronger and faster.  I had success with it as a player.  I see teams having success with it now.  Yes East Chambers consistently makes post season.  That is success.

You wanna bring up Cayuga again?  You just said that that state champ bb coach just did away with the universal off season.  Meaning that they had universal off season this year.  They won state!!  You said it not me.  There's proof right there that you can have success with it.  Plus....Cayuga had 2 D1 football players on the BB team this year.  Do you know what a D1 football player is?...an athletic specimen.  You can't tell me that had nothing to do with their success.
[/quote]

Of course it does not hurt a basketball team to be stronger and faster but the fundamentals are more important and that is a fact.  Sure some have success with it but those are the schools who have superior athletes that particular year. 


Sorry......consistantly making the playoffs is not a big deal anymore in any sport. When every other team makes it that is not that great of an accomplishment in any district. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="knows2much" post="815059" timestamp="1277754472"]
This is so frustrating!  Dis I say that having a universal weight program was the "best" thing to do?!! No!  I said that you can have success with it and that it doesn't hurt any basketball team being stronger and faster.  I had success with it as a player.  I see teams having success with it now.  Yes East Chambers consistently makes post season.  That is success.

You wanna bring up Cayuga again?  You just said that that state champ bb coach just did away with the universal off season.  Meaning that they had universal off season this year.  They won state!!  You said it not me.  There's proof right there that you can have success with it.  Plus....Cayuga had 2 D1 football players on the BB team this year.  Do you know what a D1 football player is?...an athletic specimen.  You can't tell me that had nothing to do with their success.
[/quote]

No, it doesnt "hurt" to be bigger stronger faster.  However, it DOES "hurt" to be bigger, stronger, faster if those attributes came at the expense of skills and game intellect.  The Hardin Jefferson teams are NEVER bigger, stronger, faster.  But, most of the time, they are definitely better developed in the skills area and understand the game better.  Those two items, unfortunately for you, are a higher priority and should be treated that way in the overall scheme of things.  And , by the way, I will always take the kid who can run the floor the entire game (aka cross country) without fatigue over the kid who can bench press some phenomenal amount of weight but lacks the stamina at crunch time.

[knows2much]

If not making the playoffs is not that big a deal then what does that say about schools consistently NOT making the playoffs?  I think it's a pretty big deal.  Yeah I know that the measure of success is different for everybody but that is the goal of just about every team in the state before each season.  In any sport.  And yeah skills are important.  Really important.  But the best shooters/ball handlers/batters/sprinters/you name it out there hone their skills on their own time.  Before school, after practice, playing pick-up ball, camps, at home, etc.  If you think that trading a 50 min weight workout for 50 mins of BB skill work is gonna all of the sudden turn a program around, then your wrong.  Because quite honestly, it takes a lot more than just 8 hours of practice a week to be truly successful.

[Guest speechless]

yes they did have 2 d1 players which is a rarity at the 1a level and a freshman non football player had to bail them out in the state championship game because the footballers weaknesses were exposed and they weren't allowed to use their athleticism


bottom line is football is not a game of skill but a game of athleticism while basketball, golf, tennis, volleyball, and baseball are all sports dominated by skill

that is why guys like Antonio Gates can never play a down of college football and then become the best TE in the NFL because if you are athletic and have size you can excel at a high level in football....not true in the other sports mentioned....which is why spending your time developing skills in those sports is more important especially when you have such a limited amount of time like you do in high school sports....is Andy Roddick better served bench pressing or getting in an extra 100 serves?  

[Guest speechless]

so you believe 80 hours a season over the course of four seasons doesn't make a significant difference?

320 total hours of court time doesn't make a significant difference?

go practice skills in anything for 320 hours over the course of time and see if you don't become significantly better....especially when those 320 hours are supervised by your coach as opposed to after school, before school, on your own time....when not supervised and therefore possibly not done as effectively as possible.  Why not lift after school, before school, on your own time, at a gym, with a trainer.  The same case can be made for lifting and there is much better supervision and knowledge available for lifting via trainers and camps than there is with the local AD.....that is a promise.

[knows2much]

ask Larry Bird how many shots he put up "with supervision" from a coach

[Guest speechless]

hmmm...may be a difference between an accomplished pro and a freshman in high school playing for a program that hasn't won 20 games total in the last 7 or 8 years...


while I'm asking Larry would you like me to ask him how many off-season workouts he went through with the football coach overseeing the basketball program while in season?