Composite Bats

[Guest Ranger83]

If you go to the NAFS link, it talks in more detail about this years changes.

I posted this more to acknowledge the implied approval of wood bats in HS.

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="scapegoat" post="943666" timestamp="1294371512"]
If safety is the agenda for the bat changes,having pieces of wooden bats, sawed off by pitchers ,flying around the infield would defeat the purpose for the change.
[/quote]

I like my son's chances better if hit by a piece of flying wood than a batted ball from a metal bat.  ;)

[9Doggies]

Again College Baseball (NCAA) did it to speed up the game, not for safety. Tired of 24-16 scores and 3 1/2 hour games. I personally like it, you see true hitters now, sweet spot is about as big as the ball, 5'-9" 165 lb. second basemen can no longer go oppo while getting fisted. The ball just stays in the park.... !
UIL will say its for safety, but i have a hard time believing anything they say anymore$$$$$$$$$$$.

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="9Doggies" post="947068" timestamp="1294873742"]
Again College Baseball (NCAA) did it to speed up the game, not for safety. Tired of 24-16 scores and 3 1/2 hour games. I personally like it, you see true hitters now, sweet spot is about as big as the ball, 5'-9" 165 lb. second basemen can no longer go oppo while getting fisted. The ball just stays in the park.... !
UIL will say its for safety, but i have a hard time believing anything they say anymore$$$$$$$$$$$.
[/quote]

Oh it's certainly a step in the right direction.  Just wish all levels would go wood.....purely selfish reasons.  ;)

[EAGLE07]

[quote name="Yearof thePat!" post="943680" timestamp="1294372517"]
Are you serious? Not too many high school kids are able to splinter a bat with enough impact to do any serious damage.
On the other hand, most of them can buggy whip a fastball with a composite bat that can inflict serious damage to a pitcher 60 feet away.

[b]Wood is good.[/b][/quote]

yes !

[nast85]

I believe in evolution of the game, if the bats are composite and getting hotter and hotter then so be it.  Why not enforce an infield helmet/facemask rule for safety instead? 

Let the game evolve as technology gets better, just my opinion.

Flame Suit on!!!

[Guest Ranger83]

Because that would be openly homosexual.

Just swing the wood!

[nast85]

[img]http://www.fflmanager.com/football/mofl/images/whiffle%20ball%20bat.jpg[/img]

I bet your all for them using these then...

Great and intelligent response to my original post...  Genius!!

Is it then homosexual that in football we've gone from...

this
[img]http://helmetfootball.com/images/football_helmet_2.jpg[/img]

to this
[img]http://helmetfootball.com/images/football_helmet_3.jpg[/img]

Please elaborate as I would love to hear your intelligent response...

[Guest Ranger83]

Thanks.

[Guest Ranger83]

In football, violent contact is an essential part of the game. Therefore, the equipment used should be protective by nature. The football helmet was not devised to protect you from the forward pass. It was created to protect you from violent (sought after) contact.

On the other hand, baseball equipmet was created to protect the player from the possibility of any unwanted contact from mainly a pitched ball. The only defender truly at risk of a batted ball is the pitcher. This risk is greatly reduced when the batter is using a wooden bat. That is not to say the risk is negated, only that based on certain factors, the pitchers chances of reacting to the batted ball are greater with a wooden bat.

What a composite bat does is make the average hitter above average and the above average hitter dangerous. It does so by creating a "tennis raquet" effect when contact is made with the ball. The more flexible the alloy, the more the ball "jumps" off the composite bat.

So, if the problem can be fixed by simply requiring batters to use wooden bats, then why not do it?

[nast85]

I think I understand what a composite bat does vs a wooden bat, that isn't the issue.. I'm arguing allowing the sport to evolve.  

The sport of football hasn't really changed with the exception of the evolution of the player, thus the evolution of the equipment they wear to better protect.  It is my belief that we aren't letting baseball evolve as the players and the technology of the bats get better.

Oh, and tennis raquets and raquetball raquets used to be made of wood also, they've EVOLVED into all composite also..haha, do they still have a tennis raquet effect, lol!!

Let's just go back to ancient times when the stadiums were made out of solid stone and oh nevermind... let's just suck our thumbs and use wood!!

[Guest Ranger83]

[quote name="nast85" post="950945" timestamp="1295414236"]
I think I understand what a composite bat does vs a wooden bat, that isn't the issue.. I'm arguing allowing the sport to evolve.  

The sport of football hasn't really changed with the exception of the evolution of the player, thus the evolution of the equipment they wear to better protect.  It is my belief that we aren't letting baseball evolve as the players and the technology of the bats get better.

Oh, and tennis raquets and raquetball raquets used to be made of wood also, they've EVOLVED into all composite also..haha, do they still have a tennis raquet effect, lol!!

Let's just go back to ancient times when the stadiums were made out of solid stone and oh nevermind... let's just suck our thumbs and use wood!!
[/quote]

The composite bat has not allowed baseball to "evolve". In fact, I would argue that it has diminished the integrity of the sport. The equipment one uses should not allow you to perform at a level for which you are not qualified. That is why professional baseball has the great equalizier, the wooden bat. A professional football player would still perform at the highest level if they still played with leather helmets. Would the amount of injuries be increased? No doubt! That is why their equipment has changed. Not to change the basic structure of the sport.

As for tennis raquets, they too have diminished the sport by allowing their athletes to use bigger headed rackets and lighter alloys. I would much rather watch Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe play a 3 hour match of serve and volley, than watch the current professionals serve the ball 170 mph and score ace after ace.

The only benefit of a composite bat is an increase in offensive output. Mainly the home run. I would argue that home runs, like strike outs, are fascist.

[Dayton Transplant]

Im with you. Wood bats are baseball. All others are for slow pitch softball.  Showing my age.

[EAGLE07]

Many kids, not all, play  baseball with dreams of getting to the Big Show....where they use, yep you guessed it [b]wood[/b] .
Would ( no pun intended )  seem logical to use wood in high school and college. But these days, logical seems to be disappearing.
It's all about the money.

[JS]

Composite bats can be manufactured to behave much like a wooden bat----if folks insist on using them then they should be constructed as such---otherwise wooden bats should be used.
All the talk about the sport "evolving" would have me believe that few people have seen a batted ball rocket back at them from the mound or taken one in the eye socket.

[falcolnfanatic]

There have been several studies on the wood versus metal bats issue 1 from 77 1 from 89 and 2 from the 90s all of the bats used in these studies are now illegal in the NCAA ( even before they went to bbcore requirements) mostly because the NCAA went to the besr and the minus 3 rule in an effort to limit the performance of metal bats . The 77 study concluded that on average the ball came off 3.85 mph faster from a metal bat than it did from a wood bat. The 89 study concluded that metal bats did not outperform wood bats. The most recent study whose results were released in 2002 showed that the ball comes off a metal or composite bat anywhere from 2 to 8 mph (depending on which metal or composite bat was used) harder than it does from a wood bat. All of the bats used in these studies are now illegal in an effort to diminish the performance of the bats. So it is safe to say that bats that are legal according to last years standards would have an even smaller difference between wood and metal.

The main difference between wood and metal bats is the size of the sweet spot. On a wood bat the sweet spot is a little bigger than a baseball on a besr bat it is about 3 times larger. That is the main reason that metal bats lead to more home runs and a higher batting average. The difference in speed off the bat is not as big as some people think as shown in the studies. The new bbcore standards try to match the performance of a wood bat by shrinking the sweet spot. I have used these new bats and the sweet spot is about the same as it is on a wood bat. However a ball that is squared up on a bbcore bat, besr bat, or wood bat there is little difference.

I do not believe it is necessary for high schools to go to wood bats. Every year in the majors pitchers are hit with balls some are seriously injured.  It does not matter if its a metal or wood bat pitchers will still get hit with line drives. Plus you have to think what moving to wood bats would do to high school baseball. The majority of players will not move on to the next level because they simply do not have the talent. These players batting averages would probably drop 100 points. The game will drastically change epically when you consider the dominate pitching that Texas is known for. Also moving to wood bat would increase cost. This may not be that big a problem for some schools, but what about the poor inner city schools. They typically do not have the talent of the suburbs and will most likely break more wood bats. Making the cost higher for the schools that can least afford it.

P.S. before someone comes on here and says I don't what its like to have a ball hit at me. I am a pitcher who has been hit so hard with a line drive that I was knocked out.

[nast85]

It amazes me how things can be totally taken out of context.  I said to let the sport EVOLVE all the while implementing safety equipment for the players for protection. 

I agree with the banning of the composites if we aren't going to protect the players from the ROCKETS coming back at them and possibly killing them.

WOW!!  I just can't believe how people only read and comprehend what they want too!

[JS]

[quote name="falconfanatic" post="951336" timestamp="1295477675"]
There have been several studies on the wood versus metal bats issue 1 from 77 1 from 89 and 2 from the 90s all of the bats used in these studies are now illegal in the NCAA ( even before they went to bbcore requirements) mostly because the NCAA went to the besr and the minus 3 rule in an effort to limit the performance of metal bats . The 77 study concluded that on average the ball came off 3.85 mph faster from a metal bat than it did from a wood bat. The 89 study concluded that metal bats did not outperform wood bats. The most recent study whose results were released in 2002 showed that the ball comes off a metal or composite bat anywhere from 2 to 8 mph (depending on which metal or composite bat was used) harder than it does from a wood bat. All of the bats used in these studies are now illegal in an effort to diminish the performance of the bats. So it is safe to say that bats that are legal according to last years standards would have an even smaller difference between wood and metal.

The main difference between wood and metal bats is the size of the sweet spot. On a wood bat the sweet spot is a little bigger than a baseball on a besr bat it is about 3 times larger. That is the main reason that metal bats lead to more home runs and a higher batting average. The difference in speed off the bat is not as big as some people think as shown in the studies. The new bbcore standards try to match the performance of a wood bat by shrinking the sweet spot. I have used these new bats and the sweet spot is about the same as it is on a wood bat. However a ball that is squared up on a bbcore bat, besr bat, or wood bat there is little difference.

I do not believe it is necessary for high schools to go to wood bats. Every year in the majors pitchers are hit with balls some are seriously injured.  It does not matter if its a metal or wood bat pitchers will still get hit with line drives. Plus you have to think what moving to wood bats would do to high school baseball. The majority of players will not move on to the next level because they simply do not have the talent. These players batting averages would probably drop 100 points. The game will drastically change epically when you consider the dominate pitching that Texas is known for. Also moving to wood bat would increase cost. This may not be that big a problem for some schools, but what about the poor inner city schools. They typically do not have the talent of the suburbs and will most likely break more wood bats. Making the cost higher for the schools that can least afford it.

P.S. before someone comes on here and says I don't what its like to have a ball hit at me. I am a pitcher who has been hit so hard with a line drive that I was knocked out.



[/quote]P.S. before someone comes on here and says I don't what its like to have a ball hit at me. I am a pitcher who has been hit so hard with a line drive that I was knocked out.

THEN I STAND CORRECTED---But I would like to know the source of the studies you site and are there any opposing studies that show otherwise?

[JS]

While these are not studies a quick "google" pulled up these tidbits:

1. CALIFORNIA HIGH SCHOOL GOVERNING BODY-- "requires tougher standards on composite bats to reduce injuries from hard hit balls--- August 12 2010

2. Little League bans composite bats--DECEMBER 30 2010

3. Composite bats can be dangerous due to one or both of the following conditions: a bat manufactured exceeding specified performance criteria set by respective rule-making bodies is dangerous and, in an issue that is almost unique to composite bats, a bat is dangerous if it is structurally damaged through use or abuse showing cracks or rough edges that may become hazardous. While damaged bats can be a hazard, the central safety concern with composite bats is the speed of balls hit with them. In tests with composite bats and other bats, similarly pitched balls came off composite bats at least 15 percent faster, greatly decreasing reaction times for fielders.


I find the last line interesting IF TRUE then 15 % is quite a jump in speed.

Read more: Dangerous Composite Bats | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6718775_dangerous-composite-bats.html#ixzz1BZteAvZl

[falcolnfanatic]

[quote name="Diamond-J" post="951608" timestamp="1295526746"]
While these are not studies a quick "google" pulled up these tidbits:

1. CALIFORNIA HIGH SCHOOL GOVERNING BODY-- "requires tougher standards on composite bats to reduce injuries from hard hit balls--- August 12 2010

2. Little League bans composite bats--DECEMBER 30 2010

3. Composite bats can be dangerous due to one or both of the following conditions: a bat manufactured exceeding specified performance criteria set by respective rule-making bodies is dangerous and, in an issue that is almost unique to composite bats, a bat is dangerous if it is structurally damaged through use or abuse showing cracks or rough edges that may become hazardous. While damaged bats can be a hazard, the central safety concern with composite bats is the speed of balls hit with them. In tests with composite bats and other bats, similarly pitched balls came off composite bats at least 15 percent faster, greatly decreasing reaction times for fielders.


I find the last line interesting IF TRUE then 15 % is quite a jump in speed.

Read more: Dangerous Composite Bats | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6718775_dangerous-composite-bats.html#ixzz1BZteAvZl
[/quote]

http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/alumwood.html]http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/alumwood.html

That is the link to the studies. At the bottom of the page it talks about other reasons the ball goes further off the bat such as weight distribution, differences in swing speed. However the highest speed difference from metal to wood that I have found is 8 mph.