Lamar football facing tough SLC teams early

[KFDM COOP]

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/sports/local/lamar_football_facing_tough_slc_teams_early.html

[TexasTerror]

Ray, no joke! :)

[quote]"Maybe that wasn't the smartest scheduling in the world," said Woodard, whose team will play an 11-game independent schedule before it becomes a football-playing Southland member in 2011.[/quote]

[AggiesAreWe]

[b]Among Woodard's goals when he made the schedule was to play as many Southland teams as possible. Woodard scheduled games against those schools for early in the season because the league locks them into playing conference games late in the season[/b]


The reason these are early season games. ;)



[b]Lamar's fifth game this season will be against a fourth Southland team, Sam Houston State, picked to finish in the lower half of the eight-team league[/b]



Maybe this is a winable game for the Cards. ;) ;D

[NorthoftheBorder]

[quote name="TexasTerror" post="821759" timestamp="1280419144"]
Ray, no joke! :)

[quote]"Maybe that wasn't the smartest scheduling in the world," said Woodard, whose team will play an 11-game independent schedule before it becomes a football-playing Southland member in 2011.[/quote]
[/quote]

We'll see how it plays out.  Looks like Dan Rather State scheduling a lot of SLC schools was mistake as well.

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="821766" timestamp="1280420309"]We'll see how it plays out.  Looks like Dan Rather State scheduling a lot of SLC schools was mistake as well.[/quote]

There's a lot left to be seen "how it plays out"...

Several bad decisions (not just in football) made by the previous athletic director. Tidwell has to turn the place around and the good thing is that Woodard has some 'TexasTerror' in his blood. ;)

[LUFAN]

Terror,
How is SHSU in such a better place than LU, what decisions were made that were such bad decisions?? I think LU is on a better track than SHSU in athletics, but since you don't why don't you line out why. 

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="LUFAN" post="821798" timestamp="1280424110"]How is SHSU in such a better place than LU, what decisions were made that were such bad decisions?? I think LU is on a better track than SHSU in athletics, but since you don't why don't you line out why.  [/quote]

1) Never said that SHSU or LU is on a better track for anything nor will I try to determine that.
2) I've already lined out numerous bad decisions by Tubbs regarding football and his mishandling of Roc.

[bigred360]

[quote name="TexasTerror" post="821803" timestamp="1280424593"]
[quote author=LUFAN link=topic=71281.msg821798#msg821798 date=1280424110]How is SHSU in such a better place than LU, what decisions were made that were such bad decisions?? I think LU is on a better track than SHSU in athletics, but since you don't why don't you line out why.  [/quote]

1) Never said that SHSU or LU is on a better track for anything nor will I try to determine that.
2) I've already lined out numerous bad decisions by Tubbs regarding football and his mishandling of Roc.

[/quote]

Dude, get over the Coach Tubbs and Roc issue. You have no idea what goes on in the Lamar athletic department and I can tell you one thing; if Coach Tubbs wasn't our AD there is no way Lamar would be playing football this year. Coach Tubbs did not make 'numerous bad decisions'. IMO, he made one, changing the basketball schedule to Weds/Sat. You don't personally know the man nor have you probably had a conversation with him. For one he hated the post season SLC tournament because it does not produce any revenue, the SLC is a one bid league, and he felt the regular season champion earned the automatic bid. For SHSU that would have given the Kats a couple more visits to the NCAA tournament.

[bigred360]

Something is wrong with this darn computer. To finish my statement about Coach Tubbs, he didn't always do what was best for the SLC but what was best for Lamar. I've heard he made some people in the athletic department upset and at age 70 it was probably the right time for Dr Simmons to make a change in leadership.

Who hired Coach Tidwell? Oh, that's right Coach Tubbs. I'm sure he'll do a great job as interim AD and we'll see what decisions are made in the future that he makes regarding Lamar athletics and status as AD at Lamar.

[LUFAN]

Well here is the things I know terror did not agree with.
1) We did not hire a big name coach
2) We are going to play in the SLC in 2011
3) We brought in to many transfers
4) We did not do a good enough job marketing our start up

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="LUFAN" post="821833" timestamp="1280429569"]
Well here is the things I know terror did not agree with.
1) We did not hire a big name coach
2) We are going to play in the SLC in 2011
3) We brought in to many transfers
4) We did not do a good enough job marketing our start up


[/quote]


So let me get this straight. Because TT did not agree with these decisions, that makes them bad decisions.

Okay.... ::)


(and people thought electing Obama as President was a good decision) ;)

[bigred360]

[quote name="LUFAN" post="821833" timestamp="1280429569"]
Well here is the things I know terror did not agree with.
1) We did not hire a big name coach
2) We are going to play in the SLC in 2011
3) We brought in to many transfers
4) We did not do a good enough job marketing our start up


[/quote]

1. Well, he doesn't know the budget for football. The funding was not there to hire a "big name" coach.
2/3. What, he thinks it is better to go to McNeese State with freshman and redshirt freshman while McNeese is known for having several 5th year seniors, seniors, and juniors.
4. I believe the article he posted shows that there was enough marketing of our program.

“It’s a great feeling that our community is backing us. It’s a great feeling to be a part of history. Everybody wants this back. They’re pumped up for it. We’re pumped up for it. We just can’t wait to play. No matter how the season goes, we’re all a part of history. No matter what happens, we’re going to do our best and go 110 percent.”

“It’s crazy. We get support wherever we go,” Hayes said. “If we have a shirt that says Lamar football, people want your autograph and your picture. There’s a certain swagger you pick up. You just have to stay composed and make plays on the practice field, which hopefully will transcend to Saturdays.

[bigred360]

Here are Coach Woodards remarks from another article regarding recruiting and the reason for several junior college players.

Woodard’s first step was to put the coaching staff together, drawing on a combination of experience and familiarity with the Beaumont area. The next task was even tougher — recruiting players to a team that hasn’t played a game since most of them were born.
“[b]Visiting with people who tried to begin programs, they said it was very important to get older quicker[/b]. It’s going to be difficult anyway. But (it would) be extremely difficult to go to McNeese with all freshmen and redshirt freshmen,” Woodard said. “That worked out good, because I was coming out of junior college and brought two junior college coaches with me. We hit the junior colleges pretty hard. And from there making the right decisions on the right transfers to take. You can’t just take every transfer. We got lucky with a number of transfers from the Beaumont area that we felt were good fits.”

I guess he didn't visit with TT.

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="bigred360" post="821840" timestamp="1280430456"]4. I believe the article he posted shows that there was enough marketing of our program. [/quote]

It does not take much for Lamar to show up to SLC Media Day with a coach and for the first time, players!

On the web site - the 'first line of defense' - it was really quiet. You guys got NO coverage of spring football from your own people. Your fans had to rely on the Enterprise and PA News. Isn't that when you would start building up interest, especially as your basketball team limped down the finish line?

I found it humorous that the countdown to football started after I mentioned on this site (and the other) about Georgia State's countdown and methods of other recent start-ups in promoting their program.

[quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg821845#msg821845 date=1280430757]“[b]Visiting with people who tried to begin programs, they said it was very important to get older quicker[/b]. It’s going to be difficult anyway. But (it would) be extremely difficult to go to McNeese with all freshmen and redshirt freshmen,” Woodard said. “That worked out good, because I was coming out of junior college and brought two junior college coaches with me. We hit the junior colleges pretty hard. And from there making the right decisions on the right transfers to take. You can’t just take every transfer. We got lucky with a number of transfers from the Beaumont area that we felt were good fits.”[/quote]

It seems he took that message to heart in a big way...getting more transfers than any program, even the recent ones that I'm aware (thanks to coverage by the media & schools) were talking to and visiting schools.

[quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg821840#msg821840 date=1280430456]1. Well, he doesn't know the budget for football. The funding was not there to hire a "big name" coach.[/quote]

Or a coach with NCAA head coaching experience?

The thought that you guys would hire a "big name" coach came directly from this board. The speculation regarding Fran and Slocum was ridiculous based on how high their number was and how low Lamar could offer...

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="TexasTerror" post="821921" timestamp="1280451313"]

1.On the web site - the 'first line of defense' - it was really quiet. You guys got NO coverage of spring football from your own people. Your fans had to rely on the Enterprise and PA News. Isn't that when you would start building up interest, especially as your basketball team limped down the finish line?

2.I found it humorous that the countdown to football started after I mentioned on this site (and the other) about Georgia State's countdown and methods of other recent start-ups in promoting their program.

3.It seems he took that message to heart in a big way...getting more transfers than any program, even the recent ones that I'm aware (thanks to coverage by the media & schools) were talking to and visiting schools.
[/quote]

1. There was coverage on the athletic site, don't know what your talking about here.

2. LOL, really? You have delusions of grandeur. I'm pretty sure that a PR campaign was in the mix long before you came around. I think you over estimate your self sometimes.

3. How is this a problem? I haven't read an article in any publication that has cited this as a problem, not one. I think he is going about recruitment in just the right way. It doesn't matter though, all of the discussion we have had with you on this point is worthless though. It's all opinion, yours and only yours, vs. ours. If more people were criticizing this move besides your very skeptical self I might be concerned.

Were not saying you can't have an opinion TT only stop presenting that opinion in a fashion that makes it seems factual.

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="821952" timestamp="1280461036"]1. There was coverage on the athletic site, don't know what your talking about here.[/quote]

Do I have to remind you?

Oh wait - the [url=http://www.lamarcardinals.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/lama-m-footbl-archive.html]archives link[/url] on the web site does not work. Even the fans on this board noticed the LARGE gaps in coverage. If I recall correctly, there were no write-ups in advance of scrimmages (wouldn't that be something that would get your fans interested?)

And another reminder, via [url=http://www.collegesportingnews.com/entry.php?17-Lamar-s-Underwhelming-Start-Yields-to-Season-Ticket-Success]College Sporting News[/url]...

[quote]3) Lack of Promotion. It seems many things have fallen under the radar. [b]This past fall, the team was practicing and even conducted several scrimmages. There was limited coverage and what coverage came, seemed to hail from the local television station and the Beaumont Enterprise.[/b]

If Lamar has interest in recruiting outside of Southeast Texas and even if that is their sole area of focus, they need to publicize their program. There are many ways to do this and I am sure they can do this at minimal cost.[/quote]

That wasn't that long ago - I know we all have memory lapses from time to time!

[quote author=CardAmbassador link=topic=71281.msg821952#msg821952 date=1280461036]2. LOL, really? You have delusions of grandeur. I'm pretty sure that a PR campaign was in the mix long before you came around. I think you over estimate your self sometimes.[/quote]

I was not the only one complaining about the lack of coverage...

[quote author=CardAmbassador link=topic=71281.msg821952#msg821952 date=1280461036]3. How is this a problem? I haven't read an article in any publication that has cited this as a problem, not one. I think he is going about recruitment in just the right way. It doesn't matter though, all of the discussion we have had with you on this point is worthless though. It's all opinion, yours and only yours, vs. ours. If more people were criticizing this move besides your very skeptical self I might be concerned. [/quote]

Found an article from [url=http://www.collegesportingnews.com/entry.php?37-Getting-Things-in-Place-at-UTSA-Lamar-and-UCA]College Sporting News[/url] which discusses Lamar's recruiting philosophy from Feb. 7, 2010...

[quote]During their first two recruiting classes, Lamar has leaned heavily on travels. To date, over [b]25 players have transferred to the school from other institutions[/b], including 20 junior college players. [b]UTSA on the otherhand has just two transfers[/b], one of which comes in from Penn State and the other, from Division II Texas A&M-Kingsville.[/quote]

[AggiesAreWe]

But College Sporting News doesn't say which philosophy is better in the recruiting angle. Just states that Lamar has a lot of transfers and Texas St. doesn't.

So what does that prove? Absolutely nothing.

TT, you are the only one saying it's a bad decision.

Only time will tell if it is or not.

[Bucof2010]

Why is it an issue to get transfers?

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="822013" timestamp="1280501204"]Why is it an issue to get transfers?
[/quote]

I do not think it aids the growth of the program.

To me, it is looking for a quick fix when a long-term solution is needed.

Bringing in 10 new players every year has not served its purpose in hoops, has it?

[Ruckdad]

Terror - I generally side with letting you voice your opinion on this forum because you generally have constructive things to say - but I have to disagree with you on this.  Would you rather show up in Lake Charles on September 4 with 22 starting guys that have never taken a snap of college football?  I don't think so.  With the transfers we have some experience on the team.  Besides there's no guarantee that all the transfers are going to start.

Besides, how many college football programs have you started from scratch?  If you are so knowledgeable perhaps you should be on Sam's staff and they wouldn't be picked by the coaches and SIDs to finish near the bottom of the conference this year.  ;)

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="Ruckdad" post="822032" timestamp="1280502515"]Terror - I generally side with letting you voice your opinion on this forum because you generally have constructive things to say - but I have to disagree with you on this.  Would you rather show up in Lake Charles on September 4 with 22 starting guys that have never taken a snap of college football?  I don't think so.  With the transfers we have some experience on the team.  Besides there's no guarantee that all the transfers are going to start.[/quote]

Does your first game really matter? It would seem me that you are looking to get the most out of your overall body of work and advance them a lot in their preparation for taking on the SLC and getting in a good position to battle for a playoff spot in '11, if not '12.

I know you guys want to win in Lake Chuck, but you are a start-up. Even with your 20+ transfers who have college experience, you'll be in for a tough position to win the game, because your depth is not there. Am I correct? Can't go two-deep across the 20+ starting positions with transfers, unless Woodard has more guys coming in...

[quote author=Ruckdad link=topic=71281.msg822032#msg822032 date=1280502515]Besides, how many college football programs have you started from scratch?  If you are so knowledgeable perhaps you should be on Sam's staff and they wouldn't be picked by the coaches and SIDs to finish near the bottom of the conference this year.   ;)[/quote]

SHSU has a new staff. No one is surprised we are at the bottom. You see how we finished last year? And the previous few years?

Involved in the starting process of a college program? I'm doing it now and no, not talking about my assistance via the boards to Lamar. Though, I thank Lamar. Your institution is providing examples for [b]what to do[/b] and [b]what not do to do[/b]!

[Ruckdad]

I don't expect us to win at McNeese - but I do expect us to compete as soon as possible.  That's what the transfers are for.  They will bring the younger guys along better than two years of nothing but losing to more experience teams could do.

What school are you assisting so we can see the blueprint for future success?

[TexasTerror]

[quote name="Ruckdad" post="822047" timestamp="1280505771"]I don't expect us to win at McNeese - but I do expect us to compete as soon as possible.  That's what the transfers are for.  They will bring the younger guys along better than two years of nothing but losing to more experience teams could do.[/quote]

I understand the purpose for transfers. I just do not understand the LARGE amount of transfers...

[quote author=Ruckdad link=topic=71281.msg822047#msg822047 date=1280505771]What school are you assisting so we can see the blueprint for future success?[/quote]

You'll just have to wait and find out. Hard to go public on something that has not been made public...  ;)

[ForeverADog]

I think transfers early are a great thing. It will help us get started early while working the freshman in for some experience in the years to come. Also our team is already balanced with freshman to juniors. What are the other upstarts going to do when they lose 40+ seniors four years from now?

[NorthoftheBorder]

I think the large number of transfers could be for several reasons.  1) Lamar is ramping up their program a little faster and probably is playing a much tougher schedule earlier in the timeline and joining the SLC quicker.  They will need some more experienced and developed players to compete  2) I buy the argument that I saw posted on the board earlier that Woodard also knows the JC ranks a little better right now so he has some inroads that he has taken advantage of.