Conference realignment has exploded again....whooohoooo

[coachacola]

[quote name="kingkat99" post="829455" timestamp="1282582512"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]

Id say Mcneese's house stays pretty packed and so do the likes of Appalachan State and Montana and most other programs with a winning tradition.  And having a home and home with the likes of Tech and Alabama would not ne a regular occurence by any means especially if you cant be competitive and you cant play in a bigger stadium than provost umphrey...
[/quote]

McNeese averaged 12,948 last year, not much more than my local high school not far down the road from Lamar's stadium.  I think they could average 20K+ if they were FBS and were scheduling home games against the likes of La Tech and ULL.  Most schools in this part of the country are FBS so that makes it even harder to schedule good opponents since FBS schools won't come to FCS stadiums.

[Green Menace]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829425" timestamp="1282578796"]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]
Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel.

[UNLV]

[quote name="Green Menace" post="829684" timestamp="1282606867"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]
Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel.
[/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium...

[Green Menace]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829703" timestamp="1282608376"]
[quote author=Green Menace link=topic=71805.msg829684#msg829684 date=1282606867]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]
Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel.
[/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium...
[/quote]
Then according to your timeline, Lamar better be making plans to expand the stadium to 30,000+...like NOW!

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="WOS95" post="829414" timestamp="1282577055"]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]

Yes, a certain element would definitely not come to games if we are losing, but the program isn't dependent on ticket sales entirely. The reason the student fee was passed is so that Football has income no matter what the attendance is. This illustrates another reason no one knows what they are talking about.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829384" timestamp="1282570419"]
I said on this forum before, Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders. Your kind of thinking would keep LU growth dead.
[/quote]

This is where you are wrong. Let me tell you the fundamental problem in this area. No one can get behind anything in SeTx unless it is the biggest and best. Well sorry you don't get to that point immediately you have to build to it, that is how all the other schools have done it and that is how Lamar WILL do it, with or without you. So you are the small minded one, if you honestly think Lamar has a shot at being FBS in 2 or 3 years you are very ignorant of the situation. It's not only that we don't have the dough at the moment it's that no conference has us on even a top 10 list. The mentality that LU has to go FBS or everyone will be disillusioned and quit caring is the small mindedness I speak of, people with that attitude are what keep this area from real growth.

I will keep supporting LU to the end I will be at every game, I will buy the merchandise, I will tell everyone about the truly great things that are happening daily at my university. After graduation when I'm making the big bucks I will donate hundreds or a thousand each year to support the athletics and academics of Lamar. Why would I do these things? Because I love the school and the area and I'm committed to it's continuous growth. Anyone who will abandon LU just because they CAN'T AFFORD FBS in a 2 to 3 year timeline is the small minded dim wit that keeps this area from growth. Stop saying I'm the small minded one, I have supported this area with everything I have, that is what it takes.

Do you have the guts to do the same?  

[WOS95]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829823" timestamp="1282619308"]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]

Yes, a certain element would definitely not come to games if we are losing, but the program isn't dependent on ticket sales entirely. The reason the student fee was passed is so that Football has income no matter what the attendance is. This illustrates another reason no one knows what they are talking about.
[/quote]

i know thats why they passed the student fee, i pay it every semester.  ;)  i just want to see lamar win, win and win some more...no matter who we're playing.

[UNLV]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829826" timestamp="1282620172"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829384#msg829384 date=1282570419]
I said on this forum before, Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders. Your kind of thinking would keep LU growth dead.
[/quote]

This is where you are wrong. Let me tell you the fundamental problem in this area. No one can get behind anything in SeTx unless it is the biggest and best. Well sorry you don't get to that point immediately you have to build to it, that is how all the other schools have done it and that is how Lamar WILL do it, with or without you. So you are the small minded one, if you honestly think Lamar has a shot at being FBS in 2 or 3 years you are very ignorant of the situation. It's not only that we don't have the dough at the moment it's that no conference has us on even a top 10 list. The mentality that LU has to go FBS or everyone will be disillusioned and quit caring is the small mindedness I speak of, people with that attitude are what keep this area from real growth.

I will keep supporting LU to the end I will be at every game, I will buy the merchandise, I will tell everyone about the truly great things that are happening daily at my university. After graduation when I'm making the big bucks I will donate hundreds or a thousand each year to support the athletics and academics of Lamar. Why would I do these things? Because I love the school and the area and I'm committed to it's continuous growth. Anyone who will abandon LU just because they CAN'T AFFORD FBS in a 2 to 3 year timeline is the small minded dim wit that keeps this area from growth. Stop saying I'm the small minded one, I have supported this area with everything I have, that is what it takes.

Do you have the guts to do the same?  
[/quote]typo...I meant to say "does not" in this quote " Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders"

[UNLV]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829826" timestamp="1282620172"]

This is where you are wrong. Let me tell you the fundamental problem in this area. No one can get behind anything in SeTx unless it is the biggest and best. Well sorry you don't get to that point immediately you have to build to it, that is how all the other schools have done it and that is how Lamar WILL do it, with or without you. So you are the small minded one, if you honestly think Lamar has a shot at being FBS in 2 or 3 years you are very ignorant of the situation. It's not only that we don't have the dough at the moment it's that no conference has us on even a top 10 list. The mentality that LU has to go FBS or everyone will be disillusioned and quit caring is the small mindedness I speak of, people with that attitude are what keep this area from real growth.
[/quote]If LU pass an opportunity to get into the FBS club, then LU will always remain a nobody and a second or third option to our great local talent.

[UNLV]

[quote name="Green Menace" post="829816" timestamp="1282618088"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829703#msg829703 date=1282608376]
[quote author=Green Menace link=topic=71805.msg829684#msg829684 date=1282606867]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]
Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel.
[/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium...
[/quote]
Then according to your timeline, Lamar better be making plans to expand the stadium to 30,000+...like NOW!
[/quote]I don't know what is going on in LU's war room. I don't know if LU leaders have a solid plan for a future move to FBS or if
the plan is to see where things stand in 5 years. I don't know if joining the WAC is  great idea or a mistake. I do know FBS opportunities
will be very limited if not totally gone in the future for a few decades. Texas st and UTSA understands this, I hope LU does as well.

[NorthoftheBorder]

I for one would love for LU to go to a good FBS conference.  Who wouldn't love going to a PU stadium that has been expanded to 30k+ capacity and seeing non conference games against the likes of KU, KSU, OSU, ISU, Baylor, TT, not to mention a South Carolina, Miss State, Ole Miss, Colorado or Boise State (I dream big) while playing conference game in the Sun Belt or other equivalent conference.  I don't know how the conference shakeup will play out, how long it will last or what LU's possibilities really are.  I believe for LU to a a chance, Billy Tubbs will have to be in the political mix and the big money will have to step up and be ready to increase the budget.  I really hope that football is successful, it is supported well by the community, and it is here to stay for the long haul.  I think that one goal is already being met, and that is a lot of local players are makiing up the roster.  Lets hope they can get the program off the ground talent wise.

[coachacola]

There's always the chance that no FBS conference is interested in Lamar right now. But the college football landscape is always changing so there's no telling what will happen in the future.

[sleepy]

Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........crawl before we walk.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="sleepy" post="830035" timestamp="1282678038"]
Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b]
[/quote]

UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;)

[sleepy]

I truly have never seen anything like it.  3 years ago we were PRAYING to get football back and now we have people putting us in major d1 conferences and WE HAVE NOT EVEN PLAYED A GAME!!!!  Let's give these coaches and kids a chance to succeed.

[NorthoftheBorder]

UTSA is starting football from scratch with the absolute goal of going FBS ASAP!  They have two advantages over LU in that they are located in a major metropolitan area and they have the Alamodome at their disposal.  I'm not sure the Alamodome is a "big" advantage, but it is much larger and meets FBS standards whereas PU must be expanded and will never have that large of seating capacity.  That said, I think LU can match or beat UTSA in in every other aspect.  If Woodard puts together a 1st class program that is sucessful and generates excitement among students and the fan base, then success will breed success.  I hope that Dr. Simmons will explore every opportunity and thinks big.  If it turns out LU can't go FBS whether that is outside there control or not, then I hope the goal is to be the best FCS school in the nation.

[coachacola]

[quote name="sleepy" post="830035" timestamp="1282678038"]
Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........crawl before we walk.
[/quote]

The basketball team started going downhill before Lamar was in the Sunbelt.  Also, back then the Sunbelt consisted of a bunch of ex-Southland teams so that analogy really doesn't work.

[sleepy]

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="830056" timestamp="1282681015"]
UTSA is starting football from scratch with the absolute goal of going FBS ASAP!  They have two advantages over LU in that they are located in a major metropolitan area and they have the Alamodome at their disposal.  I'm not sure the Alamodome is a "big" advantage, but it is much larger and meets FBS standards whereas PU must be expanded and will never have that large of seating capacity.  That said, I think LU can match or beat UTSA in in every other aspect.  If Woodard puts together a 1st class program that is sucessful and generates excitement among students and the fan base, then success will breed success.  I hope that Dr. Simmons will explore every opportunity and thinks big.  If it turns out LU can't go FBS whether that is outside there control or not, then I hope the goal is to be the best FCS school in the nation.
[/quote]

I understand goals.  Fact of the matter is if you set goals and don't accomplish them you are a failure.  I believe we should set more realistic goals like winning games first.  Then competing in the conference. Then winning conference before we try to go to a major D1 conference.  If we went to major D1 in 2 years we would be the laughing stock of college football and you know what people do with programs that are not successful in southeast texas.  THEY DONT SUPPORT THEM!!! If LU can be a great Southland team they will get sooooo much support and it will be great for the community.  I believe those should be our goals. 

I was a part of the resurrection of the Lamar University Men's Golf team.  It took 7 years for the team to become competitive.  That is golf not football.  I consider football the hardest sport of all to become competitive in due to the number of good/great players you must have.  In basketball you need 7 or 8...... in golf you need 5..... in baseball you can do it with 10..... in football you need 25.  It is a different world.  I just worry that if we set the goals to unrealistic for this program it will fail again and that is not what this community needs.  Just my thoughts.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="830056" timestamp="1282681015"]
UTSA is starting football from scratch with the absolute goal of going FBS ASAP!  They have two advantages over LU in that they are located in a major metropolitan area and they have the Alamodome at their disposal.  I'm not sure the Alamodome is a "big" advantage, but it is much larger and meets FBS standards whereas PU must be expanded and will never have that large of seating capacity.  That said, I think LU can match or beat UTSA in in every other aspect.  If Woodard puts together a 1st class program that is sucessful and generates excitement among students and the fan base, then success will breed success.  I hope that Dr. Simmons will explore every opportunity and thinks big.  If it turns out LU can't go FBS whether that is outside there control or not, then I hope the goal is to be the best FCS school in the nation.
[/quote]

UTSA and to an Extent TxSt have very little in common with LU other than being members of the Southland.

UTSA is in the UT system that means it has a larger portion of funding set aside for it in the state budget than LU does. It's not really fair but it's politics and the UT and A&M grads control Austin. I know that the state doesn't fund athletics but when you have more money coming to your academics from state sources you can use more of your student generated revenue for things like Athletics. The thought that state budgets don't affect athletics in Texas is absurd.

Another big difference, Enrollment and Alumni, Both UTSA and TxSt have about 30000 students and that means a significant amount of alumni too. LU has 14,000 and really only about 12,000 when you subtract the online masters students, we have roughly 70,000 living alumni. We don't size up with those schools as far as money goes. TxSt and UTSA represent what economies of scale can do for a university. Furthermore UTSA is in a large media market and TxSt is in between two large media markets. They can both leverage their positions.


This is directed at other post I have seen:

The thought that the Southland is the worst in collegiate athletics is preposterous. The Southland is certainly not the best but also far from the worse, it could be the worst if both UTSA and TxSt jump ship too soon though.

All along I have said that I'm not advocating a small minded approach for the school. I'm advocating a common sense approach, and understanding. Everyone, please understand our unique situation and don't hold it against us.

[UNLV]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="830046" timestamp="1282678779"]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=71805.msg830035#msg830035 date=1282678038]
Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b]
[/quote]

UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;)
[/quote]So far 12 years in the SLC, we haven't mastered anything yet. Should we move to DII?
I'm just using your logic.

No other school uses such insane logic to keep itself down and out. Yet flourish in so many minds here and in SETX.
Texas st and UTSA fans must be laughing TAO at the mindset on this forum.

[UNLV]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="830143" timestamp="1282694965"]
[quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=71805.msg830056#msg830056 date=1282681015]
UTSA is starting football from scratch with the absolute goal of going FBS ASAP!  They have two advantages over LU in that they are located in a major metropolitan area and they have the Alamodome at their disposal.  I'm not sure the Alamodome is a "big" advantage, but it is much larger and meets FBS standards whereas PU must be expanded and will never have that large of seating capacity.  That said, I think LU can match or beat UTSA in in every other aspect.  If Woodard puts together a 1st class program that is sucessful and generates excitement among students and the fan base, then success will breed success.  I hope that Dr. Simmons will explore every opportunity and thinks big.  If it turns out LU can't go FBS whether that is outside there control or not, then I hope the goal is to be the best FCS school in the nation.
[/quote]

UTSA and to an Extent TxSt have very little in common with LU other than being members of the Southland.

UTSA is in the UT system that means it has a larger portion of funding set aside for it in the state budget than LU does. It's not really fair but it's politics and the UT and A&M grads control Austin. I know that the state doesn't fund athletics but when you have more money coming to your academics from state sources you can use more of your student generated revenue for things like Athletics. The thought that state budgets don't affect athletics in Texas is absurd.

Another big difference, Enrollment and Alumni, Both UTSA and TxSt have about 30000 students and that means a significant amount of alumni too. LU has 14,000 and really only about 12,000 when you subtract the online masters students, we have roughly 70,000 living alumni. We don't size up with those schools as far as money goes. TxSt and UTSA represent what economies of scale can do for a university. Furthermore UTSA is in a large media market and TxSt is in between two large media markets. They can both leverage their positions.


This is directed at other post I have seen:

The thought that the Southland is the worst in collegiate athletics is preposterous. The Southland is certainly not the best but also far from the worse, it could be the worst if both UTSA and TxSt jump ship too soon though.

All along I have said that I'm not advocating a small minded approach for the school. I'm advocating a common sense approach, and understanding. Everyone, please understand our unique situation and don't hold it against us.


[/quote]Well lets take a look at numbers.

LAMAR 14,000
Monroe 7,000....FBS school...a big boy.
La Tech....12,000.
SOUTHER MISS of CUSA...14,000
Marshall....14,000
UAB....16,000
I could go on...hmm I think LU is bigger than Clemson too.
The point is, these schools and fans think big..aka jumping in the big pool and swimming.
While LU splash water in the kiddie pool...small limited thinking. Oh Oh, don't get in the big pool. The
water is too deep. Only the big boys like ULM belong in the big pool.

[sleepy]

[quote name="UNLV" post="830146" timestamp="1282695278"]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=71805.msg830046#msg830046 date=1282678779]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=71805.msg830035#msg830035 date=1282678038]
Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b]
[/quote]

UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;)
[/quote]So far 12 years in the SLC, we haven't mastered anything yet. Should we move to DII?
I'm just using your logic.

No other school uses such insane logic to keep itself down and out. Yet flourish in so many minds here and in SETX.
Texas st and UTSA fans must be laughing TAO at the mindset on this forum.
[/quote]

They are laughing alright..............it is just at you.  Trust me when I say this that Lamar is not going anywhere for quite some time!!!!
A. Because they will not have a chance to.
B. Because they want to be succesful in at least one of the two major sports before making the jump.

[UNLV]

[quote name="sleepy" post="830512" timestamp="1282740346"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg830146#msg830146 date=1282695278]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=71805.msg830046#msg830046 date=1282678779]
[quote author=sleepy link=topic=71805.msg830035#msg830035 date=1282678038]
Does anyone remember how we got POUNDED in basketball in the Sunbelt?  We were a Southland power.........moved to the Sunbelt and look at where we are today.  Let's try to master the worst conference in all of college sports and then try to move from there.  You know...........[b]crawl before we walk.[/b]
[/quote]

UNLV doesn't understand that concept. ;)
[/quote]So far 12 years in the SLC, we haven't mastered anything yet. Should we move to DII?
I'm just using your logic.

No other school uses such insane logic to keep itself down and out. Yet flourish in so many minds here and in SETX.
Texas st and UTSA fans must be laughing TAO at the mindset on this forum.
[/quote]

They are laughing alright..............it is just at you.  Trust me when I say this that Lamar is not going anywhere for quite some time!!!!
A. Because they will not have a chance to.
B. Because they want to be succesful in at least one of the two major sports before making the jump.
[/quote]C. FBS goal is to cap the number of FBS schools so LU will be outside looking in trying to be miss perfect while
Texas st and UTSA will be looking down laughing at the idiot school who did move on an opportunity.

[tracker1012]

We have not even snapped the ball in 20 years and we are an idiot school for not trying to join a larger conference. We want even play in the southland till next year. Lets just make sure we support this program through what is probably going to be a tough couple of years.

[UNLV]

[quote name="tracker1012" post="830552" timestamp="1282746164"]
We have not even snapped the ball in 20 years and we are an idiot school for not trying to join a larger conference. We want even play in the southland till next year. Lets just make sure we support this program through what is probably going to be a tough couple of years.
[/quote]UTSA never snapped the ball and is 1 year behind LU, yet they are ready to join a FBS conference.

Keep in mind change is coming to the SLC.

OUT
UTSA
Texas st
possible Nicholls
possible UTA
possible SHSU
possible SFA

IN
Tarleton st
Texas A&I
Central OK

Can you honestly see the stands full...