Texas State

[coachacola]

I don't think anyone here is against Texas State going FBS, most probably couldn't care one way or the other.  But Texas State is funding their push with $20/semester hour student fees.  So for them it really doesn't matter too much if nobody goes to their games, the money will keep coming in to support the athletic department.  As far as winning goes, Texas State just hasn't shown they can dominate the SLC.  Moving to the WAC where the long travel times will take a toll on the players will make that much harder to win.  (I think that's a big part of the reason La Tech hasn't been very successful in the WAC.)

I'm glad Lamar chose a much lower athletic fee to fund football.  Lamar needs the community to support football, both in ticket sales and donations.  The best way to keep those numbers up is by winning, no matter what level.  Going FBS is all about money.  If Lamar can consistently bring in $4 to $5 million a year from football at the FCS level then moving to a decent FBS conference would be desirable.  I still think Lamar is still at least 4 years away from making that decision.

Look at the attendance so far in the Sun Belt:

UNT 23,743 (Rice)
USA 22,376 (Pikeville College)
MTSU 21,357 (Minnesota and Austin Peay)
Troy 19,886 (Bowling Green)
FIU 19,872 (Rutgers)
ULL 15,103 (Arkansas State)

McNeese had 19K for their game with us, we had over 16K.  After a few years the excitement of football wears of at either the FBS level and the FCS level.  Lamar must take care of winning first, year after year, and then let the rest take care of itself.

[kingkat99]

[quote name="YouCanUseaMint" post="846426" timestamp="1284398394"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg846413#msg846413 date=1284397120]
[quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=72367.msg846381#msg846381 date=1284393561]To those who are against the move, you all have very good points on why this does not make sense. Will revenues increase? They could, but probably not. Will travel expenses increase? Absolutely - especially if the WAC is your preferred destination. Could you become the next ULM? You very well could, even more so if you don't do something about increasing your budget. But at the end of the day, if your goal is to see healthy FBS/BCS programs play on your turf (which will have an extreme boost to school pride and identity), you are out of luck.
[/quote]Why do you not use this to oppose Texas st moving up?
[/quote]
Because if you read the first paragraph, I don't think Texas, California, or Florida can produce an FCS team like App St. and I would like to see name opponents come to Bobcat Stadium which ain't happening at FCS.
[/quote]

Problem with the "big name" opponent theory is that youll be doing good to get 1 quality out of conference opponent in your house every season and more often you may not see a single one, and I understand that at the FCS level you will never see one.  Typically cellar dweller FBS school that want to play big name people travel to their house just like FCS schools only you get a bigger payday when you get there...

[SabineRavine]

North--those are valid points you make, but I can assure you there's no hostility and I apologize if it appeared as such.  However, every time someone posts about other conferences or the future of Lamar football, UNLV jumps in with statements about how we need to immediately seek FBS status.  When others reply with the vast amount of work, detail, and requirements involved, not to mention the fact that we are a start-up program, UNLV interjects with how they are not 'forward thinkers', or evidently they are content with being second tier.  He has yet to provide evidence that we can afford/maintain FBS status while making tremendous assumptions of what will happen should the switch be made.  He's critical of the FCS approach others suggest, so I'm simply asking him to post the numbers and evidence he has for making the switch to FBS.  It currently appears that his justification is that the door is closing, and we need to move now.  Much like a real estate agent telling a prospective buyer that someone else is looking at the property, so you need to "sign now".  No matter whether you can afford it, just do it.  

UNLV, I'm looking forward to analyzing your numbers tonight.  

[UNLV]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="846437" timestamp="1284399214"]
North--those are valid points you make, but I can assure you there's no hostility and I apologize if it appeared as such.  However, every time someone posts about other conferences or the future of Lamar football, UNLV jumps in with statements about how we need to immediately seek FBS status.  When others reply with the vast amount of work, detail, and requirements involved, not to mention the fact that we are a start-up program, UNLV interjects with how they are not 'forward thinkers', or evidently they are content with being second tier.  He has yet to provide evidence that we can afford/maintain FBS status while making tremendous assumptions of what will happen should the switch be made.  He's critical of the FCS approach others suggest, so I'm simply asking him to post the numbers and evidence he has for making the switch to FBS.  It currently appears that his justification is that the door is closing, and we need to move now.  Much like a real estate agent telling a prospective buyer that someone else is looking at the property, so you need to "sign now".  No matter whether you can afford it, just do it.  

UNLV, I'm looking forward to analyzing your numbers tonight.  
[/quote]Not true. Before that huge WAC door opened, I was ok with LU waiting 5 years to go FBS, if possible.
Why? because there was nowhere for LU or UTSA or Texas st to go 6 months ago. I knew the door would open
in the next 5 years but I didn't know it woud open this year.

[UNLV]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="846369" timestamp="1284392695"]
As I expected UNLV you delivered . . . two sentences.  And avoided the question I asked regarding your justifications.  

So, to make it simpler for you, for the first round I will frame my questions so that you can simply reply and fill in under each.  This is regarding your justification for our need to quickly move up to FBS.  I am curious to see your rationale, or whether you have thought those out.  

Expected average home attendance each year over the next five if we stay in FCS.  You can use SELU as a good comparson if you need a model.
[/quote]
10k
[quote]
Expected average home attendance each year over the next five years if we go FBS (were we to begin play in 2012).
[/quote]25k
[quote]
Expected annual operating cost if we move to FBS (including travel).  You can list the difference between the current (FCS) budget if you'd like.
[/quote]
That depends on several factors...around 16million
[quote]
Expected annual [i]increase[/i] in revenues expected if we move to FBS.
[/quote]
Again, that depends on other factors
[quote]
Expectation of the biggest non-conference team you expect we will host IN BEAUMONT each of the first five years of FBS.
[/quote]
Baylor, Okie st, Kansas, Iowa, BYU, Houston, Texas tech, Colorado st, TCU, all these are possible
[quote]
FBS requirements we will currently need to address in order to officially be eligible for FBS, and how long (months) it will take to make those adjustments.  
[/quote]If we got the call today, LU would have 2-3 years to get ready.
[quote]
Expected enrollment increase if Lamar becomes an FBS program.
[/quote]5k in 5 years.
[quote]
Expected season record of LU football over the first five years if we go FBS (list expected FCS season record next to each in parentheses)
[/quote]
I think LU can average 7-5 records in FBS or FCS
[quote]
These are basic questions from any feasibility study, with a couple added specific to the sport.  Please be prepared to justify your answers.  This is only for you, UNLV, so I'm hoping others don't reply with their estimates.  You are highly critical of others who want to take a slower, rational approach.  As a result, I would just like to see the logical basis for your obsession with Lamar moving up to FBS as quick as you want.



[/quote]The slow approach huh...If your child is slow in the morning, he/she can miss the bus.

[SabineRavine]

So you're predicting a 150% increase in average home attendance if Lamar goes FBS?  That's quite a prediction, given this board's opinion of how strongly SETX fans wanted football back.  Where will the extra 15,000 (assuming the visiting team FCS or FBS team brings the same proportion of fans) attending fans come from for FBS, and why wouldn't they show up for FCS games?  Please provide evidence for the 150% increase. I'm sure the best model would be looking at what attendance has been at other schools before vs. after making the FBS switch.

Any feasibility study is going to have to evaluate a worst-case scenario.  16 million doesn't sound so arbitrary, so I'm guessing you obtained this value from a similar-sized school that made or is making the switch?  However, in an evaluation of cost effectiveness (i.e. profit/loss), "that depends on several/other factors" won't work.  I'm hoping our administration doesn't look at it from a "that depends" focus.  

So we will average the same team record whether we're FBS or FCS?  I'm guessing that you are assuming our level of recruits/signees immediately increases proportionally.  I believe there have been 18 or 19 FCS-to-FBS schools since the late 1980s.  Can I assume your 7-5 record parallels what happened at these schools regardless of the fact that we will be (according to your schedule) within five years of being a start-up team?

So you're saying that we will see a 150% increase in attendance and average seven wins a year after becoming FBS.  Before I comment on that I'm going to wait to see where your numbers came from.  I hope they're not all arbitrary.  

[b]"If your child is slow in the morning, he/she can miss the bus"[/b].   ???  That is your rationale?

[UNLV]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="847394" timestamp="1284489649"]
So you're predicting a 150% increase in average home attendance if Lamar goes FBS?  That's quite a prediction, given this board's opinion of how strongly SETX fans wanted football back.  Where will the extra 15,000 (assuming the visiting team FCS or FBS team brings the same proportion of fans) attending fans come from for FBS, and why wouldn't they show up for FCS games?  Please provide evidence for the 150% increase. I'm sure the best model would be looking at what attendance has been at other schools before vs. after making the FBS switch.
[/quote]
The evidence is in LU's past. Packed house when LU played at the highest level, a flop when LU dropped to I-AA/FCS.
[quote]
Any feasibility study is going to have to evaluate a worst-case scenario.  16 million doesn't sound so arbitrary, so I'm guessing you obtained this value from a similar-sized school that made or is making the switch?  However, in an evaluation of cost effectiveness (i.e. profit/loss), "that depends on several/other factors" won't work.  I'm hoping our administration doesn't look at it from a "that depends" focus.  

So we will average the same team record whether we're FBS or FCS?  I'm guessing that you are assuming our level of recruits/signees immediately increases proportionally.  I believe there have been 18 or 19 FCS-to-FBS schools since the late 1980s.  Can I assume your 7-5 record parallels what happened at these schools regardless of the fact that we will be (according to your schedule) within five years of being a start-up team?

So you're saying that we will see a 150% increase in attendance and average seven wins a year after becoming FBS.  Before I comment on that I'm going to wait to see where your numbers came from.  I hope they're not all arbitrary.  

[b]"If your child is slow in the morning, he/she can miss the bus"[/b].   ???  That is your rationale?
[/quote]Again, when LU played at the highest level, even when losing, full community support.
One year in the 80's, hmmm maybe 88 I can't remember, LU was ranked as high as number 11. Less than 3,000 at
the home games.

Conclusion using your logic, I-AA/FCS failed at Lamar. Lamar should not repeat that mistake.

[SabineRavine]

That's the lack of justification I was expecting.  Surely UNLV's professors taught you that past performance is no indication of future results.  I'm assuming you are talking about attendance values from 30 years ago.  Do you think LU administrators should be using that as their rationale, or should they be looking at hard data from similar models?   

You said LU became a flop when switching to FCS.  Would you be willing to say there are no schools that became a flop (poor record, low attendance, budgetary problems) when switching to FBS?

I'm curious though . . . you say a "packed house" occurred when Lamar played at the highest level.  I saw that when Lamar plays an NAIA team, a sellout.  It appears that there is no lack of community support.  So, why the need to move up?

[UNLV]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="847686" timestamp="1284514455"]
That's the lack of justification I was expecting.  Surely UNLV's professors taught you that past performance is no indication of future results.  I'm assuming you are talking about attendance values from 30 years ago.  Do you think LU administrators should be using that as their rationale, or should they be looking at hard data from similar models?   

You said LU became a flop when switching to FCS.  Would you be willing to say there are no schools that became a flop (poor record, low attendance, budgetary problems) when switching to FBS?

I'm curious though . . . you say a "packed house" occurred when Lamar played at the highest level.  I saw that when Lamar plays an NAIA team, a sellout.  It appears that there is no lack of community support.  So, why the need to move up?
[/quote]USF and Boise st didn't flop.

Similar models is no indication of future results. If it was, all fcs move up results would be the same.

I posted why I think LU should move up, many times. You are not interested in what I posted. Everyone see how
you cherry pick and dismiss away at my post.

Finally, Dr Simmons and the Legend Tubbs agrees with me, LU should move up. Convo over...

[HoopInsider_Cooper]

[font=Courier]I don't think tubbs will be making any more major decisions at Lamar.[/font]

[YouCanUseaMint]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="847686" timestamp="1284514455"]
That's the lack of justification I was expecting.  Surely UNLV's professors taught you that past performance is no indication of future results.  I'm assuming you are talking about attendance values from 30 years ago.  Do you think LU administrators should be using that as their rationale, or should they be looking at hard data from similar models?   

You said LU became a flop when switching to FCS.  [b]Would you be willing to say there are no schools that became a flop (poor record, low attendance, budgetary problems) when switching to FBS?[/b]

I'm curious though . . . you say a "packed house" occurred when Lamar played at the highest level.  I saw that when Lamar plays an NAIA team, a sellout.  It appears that there is no lack of community support.  So, why the need to move up?
[/quote]
There are also schools that have had success after moving up. Troy is the first that comes to my mind. Their budget isn't big, but they manage to field a winning product. Curious to why only the ULMs of the world come to mind when you think of FCS transitions..

[SabineRavine]

[quote name="UNLV" post="847797" timestamp="1284522052"]
Everyone see how you cherry pick and dismiss away at my post.
[/quote]

LOL at "cherry picking".  Look back at your posts for great examples of cherry picking.  All I've asked for is your hard evidence; all I get is wishful thinking and a lot of dodging.  When I counter your arbitrary justifications, we see how you react.  I'm OK with that; just be prepared to explain the next time you are critical of someone bringing facts to the table. 

[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg847797#msg847797 date=1284522052]You are not interested in what I posted.[/quote]
I'm interested in where you get your information.  You rely on 20+ year old data to support your ideas.  No business model would ever move forward following that logic.  And it appears that our LU administration agrees. 

[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg847797#msg847797 date=1284522052]If it was, all fcs move up results would be the same[/quote]
Bingo.  Thanks for supporting my point. 

[UNLV]

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="847840" timestamp="1284549116"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg847797#msg847797 date=1284522052]
Everyone see how you cherry pick and dismiss away at my post.
[/quote]

LOL at "cherry picking".  Look back at your posts for great examples of cherry picking.  All I've asked for is your hard evidence; all I get is wishful thinking and a lot of dodging.  When I counter your arbitrary justifications, we see how you react.  I'm OK with that; just be prepared to explain the next time you are critical of someone bringing facts to the table. 

[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg847797#msg847797 date=1284522052]You are not interested in what I posted.[/quote]
I'm interested in where you get your information.  You rely on 20+ year old data to support your ideas.  No business model would ever move forward following that logic.   And it appears that our LU administration agrees. 

[quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg847797#msg847797 date=1284522052]If it was, all fcs move up results would be the same[/quote]
Bingo.  Thanks for supporting my point. 
[/quote]How about giving the forum hard evidence FCS will work at LU?

[SabineRavine]

I thought this "convo" was over?  

Would you prefer I use your method of hard evidence?

[NorthoftheBorder]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="847813" timestamp="1284525675"]
[font=Courier]I don't think tubbs will be making any more major decisions at Lamar.[/font]
[/quote]

Thank God he was at the helm to guide and assist during the last 7/8 years or we wouldn't be where we are.  And any major moves such as a FBS conference will be greatly enhanced with him as a spokesman for Lamar.

[NorthoftheBorder]

Being in and around the financial world and consulting for the last 30 years, I can tell you that I understand the importance of "business models" and "business plans" and studies to assist with and make decisions by.  I whole heartedly support that and I believe that it has already been done on some level to bring the program back if not for the purpose of a FBS move.  I also understand that all of these studies are based on assumptions of future events that are based on historical data.  Knowing that no one can identify all the variables nor how outside forces (people, institutions, etc.) will really react when you put a plan together, you can get 3 experts to do the same study and come up with 3 seperate conclusions.  Wow!  I say all that to say this. It has been my experience that everyone (person, business, instituion) that has acheived great success has had these things in common: a vision, a tireless pursuit of that vision, refusal to look at and be deterred by the obstacles (including those who repeatedly say it can't be done) that are in the way, an enthusiasm for the vision that is contagious, flexibility to adapt to the changes and unexpected events (not planned for in the business model).  I know I haven't really enlightened anyone.  And I know that this post doesn't include any great ideas of how to accomplish a move to FBS.  I just lays out the mindset that would be necessary for such a move.  I am in the camp of wishing that LU would move to FBS if possible.  But my support is not conditional on that.  I just hope that at the least, we will be committed to being a championship caliber program in all aspects and pursue that goal at whatever level we are at.

[SabineRavine]

Well said North.  I agree, and second your comment:
[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="847950" timestamp="1284565352"]I am in the camp of wishing that LU would move to FBS if possible.[/quote]

[bigred360]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="847813" timestamp="1284525675"]
[font=Courier]I don't think tubbs will be making any more major decisions at Lamar.[/font]
[/quote]

Thank God he was our AD when Lamar decided to bring back the program as he was a major fundraiser with all the contacts he has with the people with deep pockets who are Lamar alumni or friends of the university.

He may not make anymore "major decisions" but his opinion with be asked for regarding "major decisions" within the world of college athletics.

[pwdonaldson]

You've talked about this topic to the point that even a visitor to your board is getting nauseous.  No one's even talking about this coming Saturday's reality check at Southeastern Louisiana, one of those little po-dunk Louisiana schools that you don't want to be in the same conference with.

When you announce concrete plans to increase stadium capacity to 30k, then we'll start talking because there is no way you will continue to average 15k+ per home game.  Texas State will never get out of the shadows of UT.  Lamar and Sam simply don't have the fan support or population level needed.  UTSA.....maybe, if San Antonio shows they care, which to this point, they haven't.

If the WAC continues with its rumored expansion plan, the Sun Belch may no longer be the doormat of FBS.  Seriously?  Games with Montana, Montana State, Louisiana Tech, Texas State, UTSA, San Jose State.....this is going to be a better fit for you than the Southland.  I would encourage all of you to look at McNeese.  They average more "real" fans than ULM and ULL.  They beat ULM and ULL when they play them.  They participate in a football playoff instead of hoping to be rewarded with a game in the New Orleans Bowl.  It CAN work in FCS and does work in FCS.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friends.

As for reality......Hope to see some of you in Hammond this weekend where we'll show you what the SLC is like when there's tape on you.  You, just like Texas State, don't even dominate in the SLC and you think you are worthy of moving up to the next level.  Get a grip.  Win some games, win some championships, actually SELL OUT your stadium on a consistant basis, and then talk like you deserve it.

[CardinalClaw]

[quote name="pwdonaldson" post="848171" timestamp="1284586877"]
You've talked about this topic to the point that even a visitor to your board is getting nauseous.  No one's even talking about this coming Saturday's reality check at Southeastern Louisiana, one of those little po-dunk Louisiana schools that you don't want to be in the same conference with.

When you announce concrete plans to increase stadium capacity to 30k, then we'll start talking because there is no way you will continue to average 15k+ per home game.  Texas State will never get out of the shadows of UT.  Lamar and Sam simply don't have the fan support or population level needed.  UTSA.....maybe, if San Antonio shows they care, which to this point, they haven't.

If the WAC continues with its rumored expansion plan, the Sun Belch may no longer be the doormat of FBS.  Seriously?  Games with Montana, Montana State, Louisiana Tech, Texas State, UTSA, San Jose State.....this is going to be a better fit for you than the Southland.  I would encourage all of you to look at McNeese.  They average more "real" fans than ULM and ULL.  They beat ULM and ULL when they play them.  They participate in a football playoff instead of hoping to be rewarded with a game in the New Orleans Bowl.  It CAN work in FCS and does work in FCS.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friends.

As for reality......Hope to see some of you in Hammond this weekend where we'll show you what the SLC is like when there's tape on you.  You, just like Texas State, don't even dominate in the SLC and you think you are worthy of moving up to the next level.  Get a grip.  Win some games, win some championships, actually SELL OUT your stadium on a consistant basis, and then talk like you deserve it.
[/quote]

I have said this before an if I am wrong LU fan let me know, CARDINAL fans do not think we are to good for the SLC, FCS or that we deserve a FBS invite. If we can making the move to FBS it could be good for our school an athletic programs. I don't know how people read post from LU fan that are talking about going to the FBS an twist it into us saying that we are to good for where we are.

[HoopInsider_Cooper]

[font=Courier]FYI,

The 2 MAJOR contributors gave not because of Tubbs...LOL.

Tubbs is getting way too much credit.
[/font]

[bigred360]

[quote name="pwdonaldson" post="848171" timestamp="1284586877"]
You've talked about this topic to the point that even a visitor to your board is getting nauseous.  No one's even talking about this coming Saturday's reality check at Southeastern Louisiana, one of those little po-dunk Louisiana schools that you don't want to be in the same conference with.

When you announce concrete plans to increase stadium capacity to 30k, then we'll start talking because there is no way you will continue to average 15k+ per home game.  Texas State will never get out of the shadows of UT.  Lamar and Sam simply don't have the fan support or population level needed.  UTSA.....maybe, if San Antonio shows they care, which to this point, they haven't.

If the WAC continues with its rumored expansion plan, the Sun Belch may no longer be the doormat of FBS.  Seriously?  Games with Montana, Montana State, Louisiana Tech, Texas State, UTSA, San Jose State.....this is going to be a better fit for you than the Southland.  I would encourage all of you to look at McNeese.  They average more "real" fans than ULM and ULL.  They beat ULM and ULL when they play them.  They participate in a football playoff instead of hoping to be rewarded with a game in the New Orleans Bowl.  It CAN work in FCS and does work in FCS.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friends.

As for reality......Hope to see some of you in Hammond this weekend where we'll show you what the SLC is like when there's tape on you.  You, just like Texas State, don't even dominate in the SLC and you think you are worthy of moving up to the next level.  Get a grip.  Win some games, win some championships, actually SELL OUT your stadium on a consistant basis, and then talk like you deserve it.
[/quote]

pwdonaldson, quite a post there being new to the site and all. Where do I start? All the FBS talk is a little much for a startup program like Lamar. No one is talking about the game with SE Louisiana? Well we have this site and bigredinsider.com which is another Lamar fan site. I've seen a few comments about the game. Myself, I think we better improve in all phases of the team; offense, defense, special teams and even coaching. No one get mad about that comment as a staff they have only coached together 2 games so I hope there can be improvement.

You state SE has tape on us, well we have tape on the Lions and the starting QB and his backup. I hear there are a few new twist on offense SE will be seeing for the first time.

How much does your stadium hold? No one here has stated we don't want to be is the same conference as you. Heck, now all our sports well play in the Eastern Division of the SLC. Some like TexasTerror says it is the weaker of the two divisions. Guess we'll see.

You mention attendance at Lamar, well I got it from a good source we are almost sold out for the SHSU game and that game is in 3 wks. You have no factual information to state we won't continue to average 15k. McNeese averages about 12k in attendance and I think we'll only be second to them and if we didn't have to reduce capacity from 17,500 to 16,000 to comply with Federal Disability Rights Laws we might average more.

There is about 400,000 in and around SE Texas. Beaumont itself has over 100,000 so there is enough to support a move to FBS if that is what the administration sees best for the Lamar athletic program. Like I've stated earlier we are 5-6 years from making that type of decision in my opinion.

However, I promise you if we do have "concrete" plans of going FBS it will be before renovation of the stadium to hold 30,000 occurs because money doesn't fall off trees so there will need to be a joint (administration/athletic/community) effort to raise the money for that endeavor. No one knows what the future hold in regard to conference realignment. Heck, one week UT was going to the Pac 10 and the next they are staying in the Big 12. So, if someone states what conference Lamar "could" end up in they are not being truthful.

Back to McNeese, they are about 60 miles from the Lamar campus so we know about McNeese. My brother played for McNeese in the early 90's under Coach Bobby Keasler. They average about 12k per home game. Yes, they beat ULL about 3 years ago.

This is our first year playing football since 1989 so how can we win championships when we haven't played? If you are talking about other sports. Let me think, volleyball won conference a couple years ago, baseball won the SLC tournament and went to regionals, women's basketball won both the conference regular season and the SLC tournament and will be even stronger this year. A lot of letterman return for Coach Tidwell. Golf, Lamar is always pretty good and have the most conference titles of any school in the SLC. Cross Country we are one of the best in the southwest region. Men's basketball was co-champions three years ago although it seems like forever. Women's tennis is pretty good as we have the SLC POY. Women's soccer is improving yearly and I'm interested in how they are going to do this season in SLC play.

Finally, our "reality check" at SE Louisiana. You got tape on us and we have tape on you. We have to play better in all phases of the game to win Saturday. Sorry if it hurt your feelings that we haven't talked about the game with SE Louisiana as much as you would like.

IMO, the talk about FBS needs to wait a few years but that is for Lamar alumni/students/fan's/administration to decide not a poster from another SLC school.

[bigred360]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="848256" timestamp="1284597632"]
[font=Courier]FYI,

The 2 MAJOR contributors gave not because of Tubbs...LOL.

Tubbs is getting way too much credit.
[/font]
[/quote]

Hoop, go talk about UH!  ;D

[UNLV]

[quote name="pwdonaldson" post="848171" timestamp="1284586877"]
You've talked about this topic to the point that even a visitor to your board is getting nauseous.  No one's even talking about this coming Saturday's reality check at Southeastern Louisiana, one of those little po-dunk Louisiana schools that you don't want to be in the same conference with.

When you announce concrete plans to increase stadium capacity to 30k, then we'll start talking because there is no way you will continue to average 15k+ per home game.  Texas State will never get out of the shadows of UT.  Lamar and Sam simply don't have the fan support or population level needed.  UTSA.....maybe, if San Antonio shows they care, which to this point, they haven't.

If the WAC continues with its rumored expansion plan, the Sun Belch may no longer be the doormat of FBS.  Seriously?  Games with Montana, Montana State, Louisiana Tech, Texas State, UTSA, San Jose State.....this is going to be a better fit for you than the Southland.  I would encourage all of you to look at McNeese.  They average more "real" fans than ULM and ULL.  They beat ULM and ULL when they play them.  They participate in a football playoff instead of hoping to be rewarded with a game in the New Orleans Bowl.  It CAN work in FCS and does work in FCS.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friends.

As for reality......Hope to see some of you in Hammond this weekend where we'll show you what the SLC is like when there's tape on you.  You, just like Texas State, don't even dominate in the SLC and you think you are worthy of moving up to the next level.  Get a grip.  Win some games, win some championships, actually SELL OUT your stadium on a consistant basis, and then talk like you deserve it.
[/quote]What population is needed? Do we need Beaumont msa to be 1 million?

Also LU played at the highest level and at I-AA. Which one had the better community support? be honest.

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[quote name="bigred360" post="848261" timestamp="1284597874"]
[quote author=pwdonaldson link=topic=72367.msg848171#msg848171 date=1284586877]
You've talked about this topic to the point that even a visitor to your board is getting nauseous.  No one's even talking about this coming Saturday's reality check at Southeastern Louisiana, one of those little po-dunk Louisiana schools that you don't want to be in the same conference with.

When you announce concrete plans to increase stadium capacity to 30k, then we'll start talking because there is no way you will continue to average 15k+ per home game.  Texas State will never get out of the shadows of UT.  Lamar and Sam simply don't have the fan support or population level needed.  UTSA.....maybe, if San Antonio shows they care, which to this point, they haven't.

If the WAC continues with its rumored expansion plan, the Sun Belch may no longer be the doormat of FBS.  Seriously?  Games with Montana, Montana State, Louisiana Tech, Texas State, UTSA, San Jose State.....this is going to be a better fit for you than the Southland.  I would encourage all of you to look at McNeese.  They average more "real" fans than ULM and ULL.  They beat ULM and ULL when they play them.  They participate in a football playoff instead of hoping to be rewarded with a game in the New Orleans Bowl.  It CAN work in FCS and does work in FCS.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side my friends.

As for reality......Hope to see some of you in Hammond this weekend where we'll show you what the SLC is like when there's tape on you.  You, just like Texas State, don't even dominate in the SLC and you think you are worthy of moving up to the next level.  Get a grip.  Win some games, win some championships, actually SELL OUT your stadium on a consistant basis, and then talk like you deserve it.
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pwdonaldson, quite a post there being new to the site and all. Where do I start? All the FBS talk is a little much for a startup program like Lamar. No one is talking about the game with SE Louisiana? Well we have this site and bigredinsider.com which is another Lamar fan site. I've seen a few comments about the game. Myself, I think we better improve in all phases of the team; offense, defense, special teams and even coaching. No one get mad about that comment as a staff they have only coached together 2 games so I hope there can be improvement.

You state SE has tape on us, well we have tape on the Lions and the starting QB and his backup. I hear there are a few new twist on offense SE will be seeing for the first time.

How much does your stadium hold? No one here has stated we don't want to be is the same conference as you. Heck, now all our sports well play in the Eastern Division of the SLC. Some like TexasTerror says it is the weaker of the two divisions. Guess we'll see.

You mention attendance at Lamar, well I got it from a good source we are almost sold out for the SHSU game and that game is in 3 wks. You have no factual information to state we won't continue to average 15k. McNeese averages about 12k in attendance and I think we'll only be second to them and if we didn't have to reduce capacity from 17,500 to 16,000 to comply with Federal Disability Rights Laws we might average more.

There is about 400,000 in and around SE Texas. Beaumont itself has over 100,000 so there is enough to support a move to FBS if that is what the administration sees best for the Lamar athletic program. Like I've stated earlier we are 5-6 years from making that type of decision in my opinion.

However, I promise you if we do have "concrete" plans of going FBS it will be before renovation of the stadium to hold 30,000 occurs because money doesn't fall off trees so there will need to be a joint (administration/athletic/community) effort to raise the money for that endeavor. No one knows what the future hold in regard to conference realignment. Heck, one week UT was going to the Pac 10 and the next they are staying in the Big 12. So, if someone states what conference Lamar "could" end up in they are not being truthful.

Back to McNeese, they are about 60 miles from the Lamar campus so we know about McNeese. My brother played for McNeese in the early 90's under Coach Bobby Keasler. They average about 12k per home game. Yes, they beat ULL about 3 years ago.

This is our first year playing football since 1989 so how can we win championships when we haven't played? If you are talking about other sports. Let me think, volleyball won conference a couple years ago, baseball won the SLC tournament and went to regionals, women's basketball won both the conference regular season and the SLC tournament and will be even stronger this year. A lot of letterman return for Coach Tidwell. Golf, Lamar is always pretty good and have the most conference titles of any school in the SLC. Cross Country we are one of the best in the southwest region. Men's basketball was co-champions three years ago although it seems like forever. Women's tennis is pretty good as we have the SLC POY. Women's soccer is improving yearly and I'm interested in how they are going to do this season in SLC play.

Finally, our "reality check" at SE Louisiana. You got tape on us and we have tape on you. We have to play better in all phases of the game to win Saturday. Sorry if it hurt your feelings that we haven't talked about the game with SE Louisiana as much as you would like.

IMO, the talk about FBS needs to wait a few years but that is for Lamar alumni/students/fan's/administration to decide not a poster from another SLC school.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for setting the record straight BigRed360. Lamar has plenty to be proud of in it's athletic department.