LU vs Lyon

[ForeverADog]

I think he is talking about this years team. They have played one game which they won by 58. That isn't enough time.

[bigred360]

It is funny how fast people forget we have been co-champs of the SLC under Coach Roc's watch. We have two bad seasons and people are calling for his head or stating we can't do this or we can't defend this.

Has he had enough time at Lamar? Yes, he took over after Billy Tubbs retired from coaching. Sports have gotten to the point of "what have you done for me lately".

I think this team of 8 newcomers and the coaching staff deserve patients especially after one game that we won by 50 pts before cries of "they need to address the rebounding issue" or "anyone who makes Lamar slow it down and pound the ball down low will have a field day!!!"

How can you make that observation after one game that we won by 50 pts? Let's see how the team does for the first 10-12 games before we proclaim this team losers or a team that can compete in the SLC.

I know you said comparing football to basketball are two different deals. I really not comparing the sports as I'm attempting to compare coaching and judging a coach.

Let's say for the sake of debating, Coach Woodard and the football team are co-champions of the SLC in three years. Then the next two years LU finishes at the bottom of the standings of the conference.

At that point, should Lamar fire him or even talk of canning him in the AD office?

I say no way, he has earn a few more years after winning a conference championship.

The same with Coach Roc, will Lamar really be better off if he is let go. Another MBB HC over the past 25 year to resign, retired or get fired. I don't see progress going down that road.

Just my opinion but he or any coach deserves four or five years.

If the Cardinals stink up the Montagne Center this year make a coaching change but remember it will take the next guy a few years to get his program up and running.

[Guest mffl]

[quote name="bigred360" post="910856" timestamp="1289943023"]
It is funny how fast people forget we have been co-champs of the SLC under Coach Roc's watch. We have two bad seasons and people are calling for his head or stating we can't do this or we can't defend this.

[/quote]

Bigred360, I just want to point out that i'm not dogging on Roc or calling for him to be fired.

However, after we won the game against Nicholls State in 2008 (I believe), to clinch the SLC "Co-championship", we lost the next game @ SELA which would have given us at least an auto bid in the NIT, and the game after that we lost in the first round of the SLC tournament.

I am all about Roc getting this thing turned around. Go Cards!

[sleepy]

[quote name="bigred360" post="910856" timestamp="1289943023"]
It is funny how fast people forget we have been co-champs of the SLC under Coach Roc's watch. We have two bad seasons and people are calling for his head or stating we can't do this or we can't defend this.

Has he had enough time at Lamar? Yes, he took over after Billy Tubbs retired from coaching. Sports have gotten to the point of "what have you done for me lately".

I think this team of 8 newcomers and the coaching staff deserve patients especially after one game that we won by 50 pts before cries of "they need to address the rebounding issue" or "anyone who makes Lamar slow it down and pound the ball down low will have a field day!!!"

[b]How can you make that observation after one game that we won by 50 pts? Let's see how the team does for the first 10-12 games before we proclaim this team losers or a team that can compete in the SLC.[/b]

I know you said comparing football to basketball are two different deals. I really not comparing the sports as I'm attempting to compare coaching and judging a coach.

Let's say for the sake of debating, Coach Woodard and the football team are co-champions of the SLC in three years. Then the next two years LU finishes at the bottom of the standings of the conference.

At that point, should Lamar fire him or even talk of canning him in the AD office?

I say no way, he has earn a few more years after winning a conference championship.

The same with Coach Roc, will Lamar really be better off if he is let go. Another MBB HC over the past 25 year to resign, retired or get fired. I don't see progress going down that road.

Just my opinion but he or any coach deserves four or five years.

If the Cardinals stink up the Montagne Center this year make a coaching change but remember it will take the next guy a few years to get his program up and running.
[/quote]

Where did anyone say that the team was losers and couldn't compete for a conference championship?????

If Ray Woodard wins the conference within three years it is a MUCH larger feat than what Roc did.  He is starting a program from SCRATCH!!!!

You can go back on record and see that i have always said give a coach AT LEAST five years.  If you go back before the post you called Lazeek out on in the same thread he is giving the cards MUCH love.  All I am saying is you and others after one football game had Ray Woodard tabbed as the next coming of Nick Saban and then three weeks later the question was is he in over his head. You and others questioned whether he had hired the right staff among other things.  This was 4 weeks in to the first season in 20 years and that is ok??  Lazeek gives the cards much love then states we need to improve our rebounding and you get mad.  You are holding the football program to a higher standard than you are the basketball program when in reality it should be just the opposite.  You clearly have a special liking for roccaforte which is fine with me but if we are going to compare let's compare fairly.  

[bigred360]

Well, looks like another long reply.

I am the one that stated if after 10-12 games they are stinking up the Montagne Center then you could proclaim this team losers or a team that can compete in the SLC.

Now, I did mention Lazeeks post in my comment. But, I did not stay he stated that but I hope he and others would give the team more than one game before handing out a grade.

Yes, I like Roc as he has always been friendly to me and gave me access to practices and such. But, I am for all the coaches at Lamar and clearly want them to be successful.

I know you and Lazeek may not share the same opinion of Coach Roc because of stuff that goes back 10 years. I hope all parties have moved on from there.

If Coach Woodard wins the SLC in three years as I hypothetically stated in the prior post it would be a HUGE FEAT and I agree bigger than anything Coach Roc can do short of another sweet-sixteen birth.

Which IMO is very unlikely.

[bigred360]

Sorry, this computer keeps messing up after a couple of paragraphs. I did not get mad a Lazeek for his post. I was surprise by a couple of his statements though.

I believe you when you state a coach needs at least five years as I remember reading one of your post stating that.

What I'd like to know is where have I posted or even talked in conversation with my best friends that Coach Woodard is over his head coaching at Lamar? Yes, I have questioned a couple of coaches he has hired and I admit to that. I'm 100% guilty. The running game and special teams have been terrible and comparing to other startup programs we are behind in those areas. Yes, I know we have played a much tougher schedule but there were a couple new programs and non DI teams on the schedule to have better stats in both those areas.

What other things about the football program have I posted except maybe hoping Hall and Johnson sign with Lamar? Anything else?

I've been waiting 21 years for the return of football to the Lamar campus. I think Ray Woodard is a man who has contacts all over the country, is a football man, played and coached at the highest levels of football and can get the program to where it needs to be in a few years.

I like RW a lot.

We should finish up 5-6 our first year back and the team didn't even get into the athletic complex until the season started. So they had a lot of things against them but they have come together and became a team.

I think a lot of people will be surprise at how much better the team is next season for one just having a place to train and get dressed. The first recruits didn't even have a locker room to dress out in.  

[sleepy]

[quote name="bigred360" post="911415" timestamp="1290012092"]
Well, look like another long reply.

I am the one that stated if after 10-12 games that are stinking up the Montagne Center then you could proclaim this team losers or a team that can compete in the SLC.

Now, I did mention Lazeeks post in my comment. But, I did not stay he stated that but I hope he and other would give the team more than one game before handing out a grade.

Yes, I like Roc as he has always been friendly to me and gave me access to practices and such. But, I am for all the coaches at Lamar and clearly want them to be successful.

I know you and Lazeek may not share the same opinion of Coach Roc because of stuff that goes back 10 years. I hope all parties have moved on from there.

If Coach Woodard wins the SLC in three years as I hypothetically stated in the prior post it would be HUGE FEAT and I agree bigger than anything Coach Roc can do short of another sweet-sixteen birth.

Which IMO is very unlikely.



[/quote]

agreed on all counts.

[bigred360]

[quote name="mffl" post="911036" timestamp="1289960068"]
[quote author=bigred360 link=topic=75993.msg910856#msg910856 date=1289943023]
It is funny how fast people forget we have been co-champs of the SLC under Coach Roc's watch. We have two bad seasons and people are calling for his head or stating we can't do this or we can't defend this.

[/quote]

Bigred360, I just want to point out that i'm not dogging on Roc or calling for him to be fired.

However, after we won the game against Nicholls State in 2008 (I believe), to clinch the SLC "Co-championship", we lost the next game @ SELA which would have given us at least an auto bid in the NIT, and the game after that we lost in the first round of the SLC tournament.

I am all about Roc getting this thing turned around. Go Cards!
[/quote]

Mffl, did you get this stuff out of a media guide? If not, you have a very good memory.  I knew we were 13-3 in conference but didn't remember who we played the last couple of games and who knocked us out of the SLC tournament.

[sleepy]

[quote name="bigred360" post="911426" timestamp="1290013024"]
Sorry, this computer keeps messing up after a couple of paragraphs. I did not get mad a Lazeek for his post. I was surprise by a couple of his statements though.

I believe you when you state a coach needs at least five years as I remember reading one of your post stating that.

What I'd like to know is where have I posted or even talked in conversation with my best friends that Coach Woodard is over his head coaching at Lamar? Yes, I have questioned a couple of coaches he has hired and I admit to that. I'm 100% guilty. The running game and special teams have been terrible and comparing to other startup programs we are behind in those areas. Yes, I know we have played a much tougher schedule but there were a couple new programs and non DI teams on the schedule to have better stats in both those areas.

What other things about the football program have I posted except maybe hoping Hall and Johnson sign with Lamar? Anything else?

I've been waiting 21 years for the return of football to the Lamar campus. I think Ray Woodard is a man who has contacts all over the country, is a football man, played and coached at the highest levels of football and can get the program to where it needs to be in a few years.

I like RW a lot.

We should finish up 5-6 our first year back and the team didn't even get into the athletic complex until the season started. So they had a lot of things against them but they have come together and became a team.

I think a lot of people will be surprise at how much better the team is next season for one just having a place to train and get dressed. The first recruits didn't even have a locker room to dress out in.  

[/quote]

sounds good

[Lazeek]

BigRed360..........I am over the past issues!!!  And if you read I was VERY PLEASED with what I saw on the floor Friday night.  I also understand that it was against LYON COLLEGE who is terrible.  I am looking long term and against the competition that they will face in conference and realize that we cannot score in the half court offense very effectively and dont rebound well.  Lyon was smaller than us and we only won the rebounding contest on shear athletic ability.  That wont happen against Nichols, Sam, NW State, SFA, etc.

Again, loved what I saw......just being realistic for conference and against better teams that we play in non-conference!!!!

[bigred360]

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="911483" timestamp="1290018741"]
BigRed360..........I am over the past issues!!!  And if you read I was VERY PLEASED with what I saw on the floor Friday night.  I also understand that it was against LYON COLLEGE who is terrible.  I am looking long term and against the competition that they will face in conference and realize that we cannot score in the half court offense very effectively and dont rebound well.  Lyon was smaller than us and we only won the rebounding contest on shear athletic ability.  That wont happen against Nichols, Sam, NW State, SFA, etc.

Again, loved what I saw......just being realistic for conference and against better teams that we play in non-conference!!!!
[/quote]

Lazeek, maybe I read too much into your post. You're right we'll be playing teams a lot better than Lyon College and that starts this weekend. Did we run any half court offenses against Lyon? I don't remember seeing it if we did.

No, I think we did once they went into a zone on defense. But, we scored 49 pts in the second half. So, we must have done something right.

This team is loaded with shooters as Mike James, Brandon Davis and Tremell Adams can hit the 3 at or above 40%. In conference play last season, Brandon Davis hit 58% from behind the arch which makes me think of Mike Olliver as he wore #10 and Davis is currently wearing the number. I believe your good friend also wore #10.

Last night was another scrimmage and Adams lead the white team with 38 pts. Orlando Brazier had 15 rebounds. Charlie Harper has improved and must have really hit the weights hard because the dude looks like a man now!

Against Lyon the Cardinals shot 53% from the field so there wasn't a ton of rebound to get. I agree with getting the rebounds on "shear athletic ability". As 6'2 Devon Lamb had 9 rebounds in less than 20 minutes of PT. This is the most talent I've seen at Lamar in 20 years. They can all run and jump. Harris is listed at 6'0 but I have stood next to him and he ain't over 5'10 at best but he can still dunk the ball with both hands. Then Davis isn't just a shooter. The guy is long and thin and quick. He causes several TO's during the game, practices and scrimmages I've seen.

Stan Brown has improved, then there in Brazier who is a legit 6'7, 235 lbs.

Lazeek, I'd have to list the entire roster of who can run and jump. The only ones who wouldn't be on the list is Custer, Minor (he is suppost to be great on defense), and Adams who I've yet to see dunk the ball. Not saying he can't I just haven't seen him.

I too loved what I saw and I agree on being realistic for conference that is why I'm personally not going to say how we are going to do in the SLC until I've seen or heard at least 10-12 games.

Just watching practice, the scrimmages and the game against Lyon there have been different people lead the team in scoring, steals, assist, rebounds and etc. No, I don't have the stats but there isn't a big drop off from the starters to those first five off the bench.  

[westendfirst]

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="911483" timestamp="1290018741"]
BigRed360..........I am over the past issues!!!  And if you read I was VERY PLEASED with what I saw on the floor Friday night.  I also understand that it was against LYON COLLEGE who is terrible.  I am looking long term and against the competition that they will face in conference and realize that we cannot score in the half court offense very effectively and dont rebound well.  Lyon was smaller than us and we only won the rebounding contest on shear athletic ability.  That wont happen against Nichols, Sam, NW State, SFA, etc.

Again, loved what I saw......just being realistic for conference and against better teams that we play in non-conference!!!!
[/quote]

Do yourself a favor and don't try to debate/reason with BigRed.  He is the master of spin and loves to hear himself talk/type.  You will never convince him that he was wrong about anything.

[bigred360]

I've stated I have been wrong about several things. Just not where you are concerned.  ;)