HF: Credit Is Due

[mamagotjuice]

[quote name="setxbbfan" post="918640" timestamp="1290700224"]
I can agree, but being around sports for many years has shown me that coach bashers usually bash because their son is not getting what they want.  When baby gets his, all the sudden the coach is making good decisions.  Just an observation.  Listen..people off the street call in radio shows and question the likes of Mack Brown..so go figure. I am sure the kid can play.  No commentary on him.  Just thought it was funny that the critic agreed with the coach when his/her son got to play.  And she may be right..just interesting.
[/quote]Okay...I am really going to be nice here. Did you read the initial post [i][b]AT ALL[/b][/i]. People get on this forum with "subpar" reading skills and comment without having read [i][b]CLEARLY[/b][/i].  I mentioned "NOTHING" about my son! My son does not play on JV or Varsity. I stated that he played 2 [b]JV[/b] players up during the VARSITY GAME. So read CLEARLY this time, my son did not play on JV or Varisty last game day! While I do believe my son has the talent and experience to outplay any PG at HFHS, I was VERY happy that he moved someone up for however long, that [b]deserves[/b] it. [b]That is why I gave the coach some props[/b]...not because he played my son on VARSITY...because that simply [b]did NOT [/b] happen. Understand, I want HF to have a successful (not perfect) basketball program! Boys sports at HF do not excell in hardly anything....projected last in most things...I don't like that and no one else in HF land should either! And, no I am not an expert but I have seen more youth basketball than you could ever dream of....its my life. I see the BEST of the BEST in the United States play....that's my life. My finger is on the pulse of what is great out there because I see it live and in person...not on TV. That's what I measure my kids against, National talent and they have a lot of work yet to do.  So I can say with certainty that I know when I see talent!  Just do me a favor, if you are going to be on this forum and post, READ people so you won't get on here appearing that you got your education from PO-DUNK, TEXAS.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="918629" timestamp="1290699204"]
[quote author=setxbbfan link=topic=76588.msg918594#msg918594 date=1290695755]
MGJ - just curious-what makes you an expert? (or at least more knowledgeable than the coach)  Are you sure your sone just didn't get to play?  Just curiuous.
[/quote]Reading is FUN-DUMB-MENTAL! I usually let MGJ ( :D) stick up for her sons but I think I will step in this time ;) The kid plays at least 92% of the game. Leads the team in scoring and assists.Gets his teammates involved. He understands the point guard position. He encourages his teammates. He plays against some of the top players in the nation on one of the top AAU teams in the nation.

To see him play against the caliber of competition I've seen so far is very disturbing to me. Because his daddy has taught them (he has siblings) to play against older and better players, who will better challenge them to get better. He's NOT learning anything or being challenged playing 9th grade here. He's doing things against other kids thats too easy for him. And no, I don't think my son is a star because he has a lot to learn and develop better skills.
And sir, being around sports all my life, I can tell you that being a coach does not mean you have the intricate knowledge of basketball and judging talent. Talent is like laying out the facts  its there for you to see for yourself. No boasting sir just the facts.
[/quote]  Dove:  Exactly WHO decides who is good at judging talent.  I am sure you have your criteria, as do I, as do the coaches at various schools.  WHo decides what the FACTS are?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="918749" timestamp="1290718247"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg918629#msg918629 date=1290699204]
[quote author=setxbbfan link=topic=76588.msg918594#msg918594 date=1290695755]
MGJ - just curious-what makes you an expert? (or at least more knowledgeable than the coach)  Are you sure your sone just didn't get to play?  Just curiuous.
[/quote]Reading is FUN-DUMB-MENTAL! I usually let MGJ ( :D) stick up for her sons but I think I will step in this time ;) The kid plays at least 92% of the game. Leads the team in scoring and assists.Gets his teammates involved. He understands the point guard position. He encourages his teammates. He plays against some of the top players in the nation on one of the top AAU teams in the nation.

To see him play against the caliber of competition I've seen so far is very disturbing to me. Because his daddy has taught them (he has siblings) to play against older and better players, who will better challenge them to get better. He's NOT learning anything or being challenged playing 9th grade here. He's doing things against other kids thats too easy for him. And no, I don't think my son is a star because he has a lot to learn and develop better skills.
And sir, being around sports all my life, I can tell you that being a coach does not mean you have the intricate knowledge of basketball and judging talent. Talent is like laying out the facts  its there for you to see for yourself. No boasting sir just the facts.
[/quote]  Dove:  Exactly WHO decides who is good at judging talent.  I am sure you have your criteria, as do I, as do the coaches at various schools.  WHo decides what the FACTS are?
[/quote]Definitely coaches decide for their teams whats best ;)

[UKCats]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="918521" timestamp="1290666143"]
[quote author=UKCats link=topic=76588.msg918505#msg918505 date=1290661457]
HF has some players and played a great game. This matchup should have been closer, but what do you expect when one of the officials graduated from HF 2 years ago. (Verified by the HC) A little home cookin' ???
[/quote]he reffed the 9th and JV games ONLY! Those games were not even close. In the varsity game, you guys were in bonus situations and you still didn't take advantage of it.  ???
[/quote]

Yeah your right 37-17 sounds like a fair foul count in an extremely physical game on both sides of the ball. HA HA not a big deal though. Just stating facts. I already stated that you guys had a good group of kids.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="UKCats" post="919065" timestamp="1290750222"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg918521#msg918521 date=1290666143]
[quote author=UKCats link=topic=76588.msg918505#msg918505 date=1290661457]
HF has some players and played a great game. This matchup should have been closer, but what do you expect when one of the officials graduated from HF 2 years ago. (Verified by the HC) A little home cookin' ???
[/quote]he reffed the 9th and JV games ONLY! Those games were not even close. In the varsity game, you guys were in bonus situations and you still didn't take advantage of it.  ???
[/quote]

Yeah your right 37-17 sounds like a fair foul count in an extremely physical game on both sides of the ball. HA HA not a big deal though. Just stating facts. I already stated that you guys had a good group of kids.
[/quote]The game was too physical and the refs should have taken control earlier. I saw some deliberate fouls on both sides, but many of the fouls were just what I call hacking and stumbling over the feet fouls.

[Philly Cheese]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="917852" timestamp="1290571001"]
[quote author=Sloe link=topic=76588.msg917684#msg917684 date=1290564611]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917617#msg917617 date=1290561357]
Coach, you added some tweaks today. Very good!
[/quote]I bet they still need alot more tweeks to compete in 21 3a
[/quote]A whole lot more. HF is going to have to bring in players from their other teams to play better. They are hurting @ point guard and need to role play or bench many of their vet players.
[/quote]The point guard position is filled by an experienced senior who has been there through tough losses and great wins.  He knows the game and sees the entire floor. Behind him is another experienced senior who rarely scores more than 6 pts per game but always has a number of assists, this is the point-guards job, not to dive the lane and take the shot every time. On the sub-varsity levels you have young players who are still about themselves and not the team. With time and experience they will overcome this, but for now i believe the coach for hamshire fannett knows what he is doing.

[mercedes]

l'D LIKE TO KNOW WHICH GAME AND WHAT POINT GUARD PHIILE CHEESE HAS  BEEN WATCHING BECAUSE H-F REALLY IS HURTING AT THE POINT GUARD POSITION. THE GUARDS CAN'T SHOOT OR DISTRIBUTE AND CAN'T TRAP OR BREAK PRESS. I TOO HAVE ALOT OF BASKETBALL IN MY TIME COACHING LITTLE DRIBBLEERS AND WATCHING AAU BB. 

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Philly Cheese" post="921302" timestamp="1290961799"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917852#msg917852 date=1290571001]
[quote author=Sloe link=topic=76588.msg917684#msg917684 date=1290564611]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917617#msg917617 date=1290561357]
Coach, you added some tweaks today. Very good!
[/quote]I bet they still need alot more tweeks to compete in 21 3a
[/quote]A whole lot more. HF is going to have to bring in players from their other teams to play better. They are hurting @ point guard and need to role play or bench many of their vet players.
[/quote]The point guard position is filled by an experienced senior who has been there through tough losses and great wins.  He knows the game and sees the entire floor. Behind him is another experienced senior who rarely scores more than 6 pts per game but always has a number of assists, this is the point-guards job, not to dive the lane and take the shot every time. On the sub-varsity levels you have young players who are still about themselves and not the team. With time and experience they will overcome this, but for now i believe the coach for hamshire fannett knows what he is doing.
[/quote]I really appreciate what you just wrote. It lets me know more about the mind-set thats going on at HF. Several people have tried to warn me about some things there but I like to give benefit over the doubt. I see what you believe but your record, your history, and the play I see on the court dictates otherwise. Oh, please explain to me how (last Spring)two 7th grade guards and one 8th grade guard (in Little Dribblers) in middle school scrimmaged against your high school guards for 2 weeks. The high school guards kept getting the ball stolen or made bad passes CONSISTENTLY against a press the middle schoolers had. Philly, it was bad!

[mammagotjuice]

[quote name="Philly Cheese" post="921302" timestamp="1290961799"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917852#msg917852 date=1290571001]
[quote author=Sloe link=topic=76588.msg917684#msg917684 date=1290564611]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917617#msg917617 date=1290561357]
Coach, you added some tweaks today. Very good!
[/quote]I bet they still need alot more tweeks to compete in 21 3a
[/quote]A whole lot more. HF is going to have to bring in players from their other teams to play better. They are hurting @ point guard and need to role play or bench many of their vet players.
[/quote]The point guard position is filled by an experienced senior who has been there through tough losses and great wins.  He knows the game and sees the entire floor. Behind him is another experienced senior who rarely scores more than 6 pts per game but always has a number of assists, this is the point-guards job, not to dive the lane and take the shot every time. On the sub-varsity levels you have young players who are still about themselves and not the team. With time and experience they will overcome this, but for now i believe the coach for hamshire fannett knows what he is doing.
[/quote]Philly. You are a fake! You started a thread yesterday like you were supporting the freshman PG....now today we see the real agenda.....HATIN' in its purest form. Your thread yesterday was as transparent as they come. So thankful it was removed after you were exposed. In the end....the season will speak for itself. If the correct decisions are being made....then time will reveal the truth. We all will be watching.One thing...you must be doing something right if someone takes their precious time out to talk about you on this forum:)

[cameron09]

The only hatin goin on here is against the poor guy that is the ponit guard for H-F, he must feel real good being put down by Blue Dove and mommagotjuice.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="ford15" post="921624" timestamp="1290993848"]
The only hatin goin on here is against the poor guy that is the ponit guard for H-F, he must feel real good being put down by Blue Dove and mommagotjuice.
[/quote]Nah, no hat'n! Just putting it out there. I'm not the only one who feel this way. The record and the history speaks for itself. Hard to put up an argument against the truth. If your high school guards can't play  against HF middle school players, then it's hard to hate on the truth. The coach let two JV players play varsity last week. That shows the team needs help. I think he will have to make some changes later in the season. If you're happy with your program being looked upon as a joke, then go ahead. I always heard losing can become a habit. At least try to show you want to win.

[doodle]

Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings. 

[Philly Cheese]

I know it appears to mamagotjuice that i am "hatin" on the freshman PG from h-f but i don't even know the kid. I seen him play once, and yes he has talent and he plays the game well, but i noticed that he still had some developing to do.  I have seen the PG for the varsity level play a number of times and he has experience as well as a great team ethic.  I noticed that his teammates saw him as a leader and thats what they need, someone they trust and believe in. So i am sorry for giving the impression that i am "hatin" on the freshman PG. 

[Philly Cheese]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="921546" timestamp="1290987816"]
[quote author=Philly Cheese link=topic=76588.msg921302#msg921302 date=1290961799]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917852#msg917852 date=1290571001]
[quote author=Sloe link=topic=76588.msg917684#msg917684 date=1290564611]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917617#msg917617 date=1290561357]
Coach, you added some tweaks today. Very good!
[/quote]I bet they still need alot more tweeks to compete in 21 3a
[/quote]A whole lot more. HF is going to have to bring in players from their other teams to play better. They are hurting @ point guard and need to role play or bench many of their vet players.
[/quote]The point guard position is filled by an experienced senior who has been there through tough losses and great wins.  He knows the game and sees the entire floor. Behind him is another experienced senior who rarely scores more than 6 pts per game but always has a number of assists, this is the point-guards job, not to dive the lane and take the shot every time. On the sub-varsity levels you have young players who are still about themselves and not the team. With time and experience they will overcome this, but for now i believe the coach for hamshire fannett knows what he is doing.
[/quote]I really appreciate what you just wrote. It lets me know more about the mind-set thats going on at HF. Several people have tried to warn me about some things there but I like to give benefit over the doubt. I see what you believe but your record, your history, and the play I see on the court dictates otherwise. Oh, please explain to me how (last Spring)two 7th grade guards and one 8th grade guard (in Little Dribblers) in middle school scrimmaged against your high school guards for 2 weeks. The high school guards kept getting the ball stolen or made bad passes CONSISTENTLY against a press the middle schoolers had. Philly, it was bad!
[/quote] I have heard of the guard you talking about...Jordan Hunter i believe..?  I hear he is good and knows the game...but i was unaware of the scrimmages that went on last spring.  I know it may have been bad, and they were beating two varsity point guards, but these were not point guards from HJ, Silsbee, WO-S, the thing im trying to get through to people is the talent on the younger levels, no matter how good, is nothing without experience. The varsity players on HF's squad have to play against some of the best 3A players in the state, its alot different than playing against soon to be greats on the freshman and JV levels.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="doodle" post="921671" timestamp="1290996884"]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings.   
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Philly Cheese" post="921693" timestamp="1290998863"]
I know it appears to mamagotjuice that i am "hatin" on the freshman PG from h-f but i don't even know the kid. I seen him play once, and yes he has talent and he plays the game well, but i noticed that he still had some developing to do.  I have seen the PG for the varsity level play a number of times and he has experience as well as a great team ethic.  I noticed that his teammates saw him as a leader and thats what they need, someone they trust and believe in. So i am sorry for giving the impression that i am "hatin" on the freshman PG. 
[/quote]The players on the varsity are great guys at HF. The problem is great guys don't always get you a winning season. They may not be paid professionals , but guess who is? They will  graduate and you're stuck as a coach with a losing record.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Philly Cheese" post="921698" timestamp="1290999492"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg921546#msg921546 date=1290987816]
[quote author=Philly Cheese link=topic=76588.msg921302#msg921302 date=1290961799]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917852#msg917852 date=1290571001]
[quote author=Sloe link=topic=76588.msg917684#msg917684 date=1290564611]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg917617#msg917617 date=1290561357]
Coach, you added some tweaks today. Very good!
[/quote]I bet they still need alot more tweeks to compete in 21 3a
[/quote]A whole lot more. HF is going to have to bring in players from their other teams to play better. They are hurting @ point guard and need to role play or bench many of their vet players.
[/quote]The point guard position is filled by an experienced senior who has been there through tough losses and great wins.  He knows the game and sees the entire floor. Behind him is another experienced senior who rarely scores more than 6 pts per game but always has a number of assists, this is the point-guards job, not to dive the lane and take the shot every time. On the sub-varsity levels you have young players who are still about themselves and not the team. With time and experience they will overcome this, but for now i believe the coach for hamshire fannett knows what he is doing.
[/quote]I really appreciate what you just wrote. It lets me know more about the mind-set thats going on at HF. Several people have tried to warn me about some things there but I like to give benefit over the doubt. I see what you believe but your record, your history, and the play I see on the court dictates otherwise. Oh, please explain to me how (last Spring)two 7th grade guards and one 8th grade guard (in Little Dribblers) in middle school scrimmaged against your high school guards for 2 weeks. The high school guards kept getting the ball stolen or made bad passes CONSISTENTLY against a press the middle schoolers had. Philly, it was bad!
[/quote] I have heard of the guard you talking about...Jordan Hunter i believe..?  I hear he is good and knows the game...but i was unaware of the scrimmages that went on last spring.  I know it may have been bad, and they were beating two varsity point guards, but these were not point guards from HJ, Silsbee, WO-S, the thing im trying to get through to people is the talent on the younger levels, no matter how good, is nothing without experience. The varsity players on HF's squad have to play against some of the best 3A players in the state, its alot different than playing against soon to be greats on the freshman and JV levels.
[/quote]You see Philly, you have the answer but I don't think you realized it. [color=red]If you're not [/color][color=red]winning with your upperclassmen[/color] and you have good talent coming up, you get that talent ready for the upper level. In other words, if some players can't compete against middle schoolers, what difference does experience make against Silsbee or HJ. Its just the harsh reality and I'm not trying to publicly or viciously degrade anybody.  I've seen coaches try and hold back their talent and protect their older players. In the long run it can hurt your program.

[KHSAlum400]

What's the purpose of having some of the BEST players in your system on the Freshman and JV teams? That makes ZERO sense. You would NEVER see that at Kountze, H-J or Silsbee. Your Varsity team is supposed to be your BEST team at the high school level. H-F must really have some other issues going on.

[doodle]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="921712" timestamp="1291000154"]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921671#msg921671 date=1290996884]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings.   
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?
[/quote]
I'm just saying supportive is better.  A less public forum might be a better place to critique 1 or 2 specific players. Remember they're teenagers.  

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="doodle" post="921732" timestamp="1291001860"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg921712#msg921712 date=1291000154]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921671#msg921671 date=1290996884]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings.   
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?
[/quote]
I'm just saying supportive is better.  A less public forum might be a better place to critique 1 or 2 specific players. Remember they're teenagers.  
[/quote]And what about the few teenagers from the JV who deserve better too? No one is speaking up for them. The new kid from France (varsity) deserves better.

[cameron09]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="921770" timestamp="1291004966"]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921732#msg921732 date=1291001860]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg921712#msg921712 date=1291000154]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921671#msg921671 date=1290996884]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings. 
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?
[/quote]
I'm just saying supportive is better.  A less public forum might be a better place to critique 1 or 2 specific players. Remember they're teenagers. 
[/quote]And what about the few teenagers from the JV who deserve better too? No one is speaking up for them. The new kid from France (varsity) deserves better.
[/quote]The only thing he DESERVES is an education.

[Philly Cheese]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="921712" timestamp="1291000154"]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921671#msg921671 date=1290996884]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings.   
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?
[/quote]I believe that in all reality, coaches do try and keep players together to an extent.  If there is talent at a younger level, and alot from what you say, with the junior high guards and freshman team, Let them play together and grow as a team. If you put one or two on varsity, they won't be getting that team building with the teammates of their future. Maybe coach is doing right, and building a strong program for the future?

[blacksheep]

Look here people the fact is that nobody actually knows what goes on in the HF basketball program except for the coaches and the players. Although bluedove and mgj think they have all the answers they don't because they aren't there and they don't have a clue what goes on at practice. Anyobe can sit in the stands and talk about who the best players are and that they should all play together. Heck thats what the heat did and look at them. Maybe the kids on varsity are there because they work harder than the others or maybe they have good chemistry or maybe just maybe they have the right attitude and they respect the coaches and the rest of the team.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="blacksheep" post="921850" timestamp="1291038097"]
Look here people the fact is that nobody actually knows what goes on in the HF basketball program except for the coaches and the players. Although bluedove and mgj think they have all the answers they don't because they aren't there and they don't have a clue what goes on at practice. Anyobe can sit in the stands and talk about who the best players are and that they should all play together. Heck thats what the heat did and look at them. Maybe the kids on varsity are there because they work harder than the others or maybe they have good chemistry or maybe just maybe they have the right attitude and they respect the coaches and the rest of the team.
[/quote]I counted about four "maybe's" from your post. :D  Why would one want to sit in on a practice when I can look at the results in a game ::) ::)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="ford15" post="921805" timestamp="1291009412"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg921770#msg921770 date=1291004966]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921732#msg921732 date=1291001860]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=76588.msg921712#msg921712 date=1291000154]
[quote author=doodle link=topic=76588.msg921671#msg921671 date=1290996884]
Let's not forget that this forum is read by the players too, and that they are just kids (not paid professionals) who work hard, do their best, and have feelings.   
[/quote]I agree to a point.  But at the high school level you play your best players who get the job done. This isn't Little Dribblers where coaches try and keep players together, or is it?
[/quote]
I'm just saying supportive is better.  A less public forum might be a better place to critique 1 or 2 specific players. Remember they're teenagers. 
[/quote]And what about the few teenagers from the JV who deserve better too? No one is speaking up for them. The new kid from France (varsity) deserves better.
[/quote]The only thing he DESERVES is an education.
[/quote]He's getting that. Moot point!