YMBL Officiating

[Shortbread]

I was at the YMBL tournament today and I think the officiating was pitiful.  Did not get to see the Ozen game, but I understand it was not good there, either. 

[Bobcat1]

It was different...In a girls game one team fouls 12 times in the first half and only twice in the second half?  ::)

[HoopInsider_Cooper]

They meet on Sundays I believe, and have plenty of openings!

[Lazeek]

Must have been UIL officials!!!!!! ;) ;) ;)

[whsalum]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="924750" timestamp="1291352244"]
They meet on Sundays I believe, and have plenty of openings!
[/quote]They welcome everyone with open arms :)

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="924750" timestamp="1291352244"]
They meet on Sundays I believe, and have plenty of openings!
[/quote]

Its not like its volunteer work, its a paying gig, nobody is perfect but some of its pretty poor. Its not for everybody but if they take the job they should do it fairly. I don't know about this tourney, but recently i saw an official threaten to remove an entire section of spectators because one parent made some comments he didn't care for. I've seen some rowdy spectators and this was not one, we didn't even hear him sitting a few feet from him. The official knew where the comments were coming from and threatens an entire section of parents and grandparents that had nothing to do with it, thats just ignorant and gives the profession a black eye. Its simple, turn off the volume and grow a little thicker skin, do a fair job (already this year i've seen 2 lopsidedly called games), collect the money and go home. Its not an officials job to [i]dictate[/i] the outcome of a game and the fact that some would like to censor any feedback only reinforces the point that they're not interested in doing better. The sooner theres some internal evaluation and consequences the sooner the players, fans, and the guys out there doing a good job will be happy, and to those that are kudos to them. I fear that percentage is slipping.

[JMT]

I can't comment on the YMBL officiating since I'm not down there, but I can say this about what I've seen from the officials up here in the Dallas Chapter. So far this year charging calls are way down. I've seen more blocks called in games than at any point in well, ever. I don't know if they decided to make this a point of emphasis, but honestly I find it comical how officials are calling blocks and charges. There's absolutely no consistency at all early in the season in regards to how this is being called. I've seen kids set their feet and not move and are still called for a block. It hasn't been fun to watch no matter who you support. I really wish that the officials would come up with something uniform in this area. I know our kids at Madison are frustrated with how this is being called. They aren't alone though on that as several other schools are going through the same thing.

[GrayDog]

In the heat of the game, it doesn't matter if the call was good or not...  there is always going to be half the fans happy and the other  :'( half mad!!

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="GrayDog" post="924970" timestamp="1291396358"]
In the heat of the game, it doesn't matter if the call was good or not...  there is always going to be half the fans happy and the other  :'( half mad!!
[/quote]

thats not entirely true, the fans get upset when there's inconsistency, especially in the same game.

[GrayDog]

I'll take that, but have you "ever" seen a game where "everybody" is happy???  NO!

[east texas bb]

The problem with officiating is that officials have nothing at stake, as do the coaches.  They have not put in hours and hours of work to get inconsitent calling.  The worst thing about officiating is the defender guarding the ball, dont get me wrong, but it is a foul to impede a dribbler if he is dribbler.  That means if you touch him on his pursiut to get past you that it is a foul.  I am all for playing aggressive defense and alot of people think that coaches are good because they teach their players to play hard.  But, they need to teach them to play hard without fouling.  Handchecking and riding a player up and down the court is a foul and needs to be called so.  It is not fair to the teams that actually try to do things the right way and teach fundamental play and then get in the game and allow the athletes to take over because they are stronger or faster.  The intregrity and fungamentals  of the game should be protected more and they are not.  This is something that is very bad in Region 3.  Once teams get past this region they will soon find out that officials from different areas protect the findamentals.  This should be their priority, but like I said they have no concern over protecting the game(they want to make their money and go on, I know there are exceptions) and allowing it to become a free for all, and a mindset to let the kids decide the game. Let the kids decide the game within the rules because basketball is a game of skills and athleticism not just athleticism.  Call the game the way it is read in the UIL handbook.  It is as simple as that.  Great example:  I saw Martins Mill get beat today by 6 points because the officials allowed Paris to ride them up and down the court.  5 out of 5 times they dont call a foul and then the one team gets a steal and its ok.  What about the other 5 times where they fouled and didnt call it?  If officials dont start calling the games the right way, the fundamentals, which in my opinion make the game beautiful to watch, will not be taught as much, 

[BADSANTA]

Refs have been horrible in YMBL this year.

[HoopInsider_Cooper]

Can't wait to see some refs next weekend in several different tourneys where the "other" chapter is officiating.  ::)

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="925368" timestamp="1291428654"]
The problem with officiating is that officials have nothing at stake, as do the coaches.  They have not put in hours and hours of work to get inconsitent calling.  The worst thing about officiating is the defender guarding the ball, dont get me wrong, but it is a foul to impede a dribbler if he is dribbler.  That means if you touch him on his pursiut to get past you that it is a foul.  I am all for playing aggressive defense and alot of people think that coaches are good because they teach their players to play hard.  But, they need to teach them to play hard without fouling.  Handchecking and riding a player up and down the court is a foul and needs to be called so.  It is not fair to the teams that actually try to do things the right way and teach fundamental play and then get in the game and allow the athletes to take over because they are stronger or faster.  The intregrity and fungamentals  of the game should be protected more and they are not.  This is something that is very bad in Region 3.  Once teams get past this region they will soon find out that officials from different areas protect the findamentals.  This should be their priority, but like I said they have no concern over protecting the game(they want to make their money and go on, I know there are exceptions) and allowing it to become a free for all, and a mindset to let the kids decide the game. Let the kids decide the game within the rules because basketball is a game of skills and athleticism not just athleticism.  Call the game the way it is read in the UIL handbook.  It is as simple as that.  Great example:  I saw Martins Mill get beat today by 6 points because the officials allowed Paris to ride them up and down the court.  5 out of 5 times they dont call a foul and then the one team gets a steal and its ok.  What about the other 5 times where they fouled and didnt call it?  If officials dont start calling the games the right way, the fundamentals, which in my opinion make the game beautiful to watch, will not be taught as much, 
[/quote]

good post, i agree with you about protecting the fundamentals and how rough play is often rewarded above skill. i do believe the rules read something to effect of "contact that impedes movement" or something to that effect for fouls, but i see alot of hip bumping in the traps that doesn't get called, until you least expect it. you can see the frustration of both teams as their arms are torn from the ball for a steal, then 20 seconds later a love tap gets whistled.

there are some games that would be better off with players calling fouls, sure there would be bad calls but i don't think it could get much worse. at least the kids would learn some respect for each other. really would it be that hard to pick a few game films (after the fact) and evaluate officials in a constructive manner? i'd pay another buck admission if it went to funding a program that improved this situation and maybe a bonus for refs that got high scores!!!

[Lazeek]

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="925431" timestamp="1291430782"]
Can't wait to see some refs next weekend in several different tourneys where the "other" chapter is officiating.  ::)
[/quote]

I will say that the best ref in SE Texas (Ken Jones) does have a UIL patch on his shirt, but the rest have all allowed their ego's to get to big and think that they are the best thing since sliced bread!!!!!

[east texas bb]

He must be a good one, most officials do not like coaches, they are just looking for an excuse to give them the seat belt rule.  Kind of like the small town cop scenerio.  They think (actuallly do because the State has givin it to them) they can not be touched and want to show their power to the coaches.  Very hard to find an official who is trying to do his best and really takes his calls seriously.  Wish there were more like the guy you are talking about. 

[Bone Daddy]

The big difference is they will have 3 varsirty tournaments at once instead of just the YMBL. Its a lot easier to get spread thin, but I'm sure they will do fine!!

[quote name="HoopInsider_Cooper" post="925431" timestamp="1291430782"]
Can't wait to see some refs next weekend in several different tourneys where the "other" chapter is officiating.  ::)
[/quote]

[Lazeek]

Sure is funny that the BEST OFFICIAL in SE Texas was not even in the YMBL Championship Game.........the over grown ego's were!!!!  Well at least two of them!!!!!!

[Bone Daddy]

Who is that???

[BLUEDOVE3]

I have the perfect solution for bad refs: Stop hacking, stop making errant passes, missed free throws and missed shots.

[Bone Daddy]

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="927465" timestamp="1291656531"]
Sure is funny that the BEST OFFICIAL in SE Texas was not even in the YMBL Championship Game.........the over grown ego's were!!!!  Well at least two of them!!!!!!
[/quote]

Maybe he's just your "BEST OFFICIAL in SE TEXAS" & not really the BEST!!!!!!!!  Is that possible??

[Tweeter]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="925368" timestamp="1291428654"]
It is not fair to the teams that actually try to do things the right way and teach fundamental play and then get in the game and allow the athletes to take over because they are stronger or faster.  
[/quote]

really? It's an unfair advantage to be a superior athlete?  Maybe the most ignorant things I've ever read here ??? ::)

[PoppaBearstarr]

I know exactly who you are talking about zeek, we both think win or lose he is the best official in UIL....Nice guy too. I think his name is Kenny and he did the girls championship game....

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="927527" timestamp="1291663847"]
I know exactly who you are talking about zeek, we both think win or lose he is the best official in UIL....Nice guy too. I think his name is Kenny and he did the girls championship game....
[/quote]

Well, that seals the deal then, doesn't it.  If you two homeys agree then it MUST BE THAT WAY. ;D ;D 

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="Tweeter" post="927492" timestamp="1291659545"]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=76979.msg925368#msg925368 date=1291428654]
It is not fair to the teams that actually try to do things the right way and teach fundamental play and then get in the game and allow the athletes to take over because they are stronger or faster.  
[/quote]

really? It's an unfair advantage to be a superior athlete?  Maybe the most ignorant things I've ever read here ??? ::)
[/quote]

its an unfair advantage when those "superior" athletes are allowed to break the rules of the game. if those superior athletes play skilled basketball then more power to them, but it is not within the realm of the rules for a stronger athlete to use brute force to have an advantage because the rules aren't enforced. that was the point, not that good athletes shouldn't be allowed to excel, just that they shouldn't be allowed to ignore the rules and played unskilled brute force basketball. basketball is [i]somewhat[/i] physical but in some cases its gotten out of hand. primarily it is a game of wit and skill, if it weren't then just throw out the foul rules. even rugby has rules.