HARDIN-JEFFERSON vs. EVADALE Broadcast/H-J wins 61-26!

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="931820" timestamp="1292171991"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=77296.msg931742#msg931742 date=1292159674]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg930893#msg930893 date=1292079576]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=77296.msg930889#msg930889 date=1292078743]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg930200#msg930200 date=1292018734]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=77296.msg930138#msg930138 date=1292014115]
Basketball is about matchups.  You cant compare scores in the paper or game to game situations.  You can get a little info this way but not as much as you would think.
[/quote]Ah, heres a person that knows basketball. I'll find me a match to stop a spot up shooter in high school basketball anyday. Getting Nash started up again ;)
[/quote]

I am here and ready to start.  I would disagree with you because "some people" forget that basketball is a team game where all five players have a role (at least for the better teams) in making things happen.  Some defender might be capable of stopping a spot up shooter one on one, but a decent coach will get that shooter shots regardless of how good the particular defender is.   It really isnt that difficult to force "that defender" to cover someone else via screen/multiple screens.  Additionally, any spot up shooter who is going to be "shut down" by the defender will have that defender in his face.  Even the slowest of the slow that has any kind of basketball intellect has a response to that type of defensive effort.    If that defender holds his spot up shooting opponent to no shots taken or very few taken, the spot up shooter has simply provided some of his teammates with additional opportunities they might otherwise not have had.
[/quote]I knew you would come out sooner. But you make valid points. Lets just hope the "other teammates can score.
[/quote] IF none of the teammates can score, then your "team" has little chance.
[/quote]Give me a true point guard with the ability to score (shoot & drive), pass the ball, he'lll make his weaker teammates look good ;)
[/quote]

He sure will.  However, it takes more than a great point guard to make a team successful.  I am pretty sure that Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton(among others) would confirm my contention.

[east texas bb]

Well said True Blue.  Very good analogy.  Sorry that the PG that was with yall so long decided to advance his life ahead of schedule.  He will regret it.  Not the child, but that he missed his shot of playing. Now the rest of the team has to hurt because of his choice.
BlueDove good point as well.  I also wish we would stay with HS ball.  NBA and HS are alot different.  No one presses in the NBA, big HUGE difference. Do PG guards need other players to succeed? Yes.  Does a spot up shooter need others to succeed? Yes.
Recent newsletter by a profound basketball coach who is going for his PHD said that the most important skills to teach a kid is to dribble.  Brian McCormick. Without that skill you can not take the next steps that are necessary.  It is a great occurance in Youth Basketball that coaches try to individualize a player.  Putting this kid at post and this kid at PG.  His thesis was to teach all players how to dribble, because it is the most important skill to step-teach to the next level and also because you do not know if the Tall kid you put at post will not grow and if the PG will shoot up to 6'11".  His point being was how critical it is for each player on the floor to be able to handle the basketball. His thought process is very easy for me to understand.    I also would not limit a shot creator to a PG, or a spot up shooter to a 2 guard.  Most 2 guards that were considered great were the ones who could do it all. Most 1's have a whole load of stuff on their back to carry.  Extension of coach on the floor, reading the floor(passing to open players, spot up shooters, post players in position), shooting the shot, starting the offense, guarding their man, creating a shot when the offense collapses, feeding the post.  Lastly, I have never seen a box and 1 on a spot up shooter, I would give him an extra step closer on helpside d, but he would have to be a very special shooter for a box and 1.  I also would not be happy with my spot up shooter just creating a little more space on the floor. I would expect him to be a threat, preferably a triple threat.  One who can shoot, pass, and dribble. 

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="932124" timestamp="1292207448"]
Well said True Blue.  Very good analogy.  Sorry that the PG that was with yall so long decided to advance his life ahead of schedule.  He will regret it.  Not the child, but that he missed his shot of playing. Now the rest of the team has to hurt because of his choice.
BlueDove good point as well.  I also wish we would stay with HS ball.  NBA and HS are alot different.  No one presses in the NBA, big HUGE difference. Do PG guards need other players to succeed? Yes.  Does a spot up shooter need others to succeed? Yes.
Recent newsletter by a profound basketball coach who is going for his PHD said that the most important skills to teach a kid is to dribble.  Brian McCormick. Without that skill you can not take the next steps that are necessary.  It is a great occurance in Youth Basketball that coaches try to individualize a player.  Putting this kid at post and this kid at PG.  His thesis was to teach all players how to dribble, because it is the most important skill to step-teach to the next level and also because you do not know if the Tall kid you put at post will not grow and if the PG will shoot up to 6'11".  His point being was how critical it is for each player on the floor to be able to handle the basketball. His thought process is very easy for me to understand.    I also would not limit a shot creator to a PG, or a spot up shooter to a 2 guard.  Most 2 guards that were considered great were the ones who could do it all. Most 1's have a whole load of stuff on their back to carry.  Extension of coach on the floor, reading the floor(passing to open players, spot up shooters, post players in position), shooting the shot, starting the offense, guarding their man, creating a shot when the offense collapses, feeding the post.  Lastly, I have never seen a box and 1 on a spot up shooter, I would give him an extra step closer on helpside d, but he would have to be a very special shooter for a box and 1.  I also would not be happy with my spot up shooter just creating a little more space on the floor. I would expect him to be a threat, preferably a triple threat.  One who can shoot, pass, and dribble. 
[/quote]You know, that is one of the things I've always marveled at during HJ games.... every player knows how to handle the ball.  Now granted, some are better than others; that's natural.  But even the post men are adequate dribblers. 

A few years ago, the Hawks had their center dribble out the last quarter because the guy guarding him from Jasper was 300 pounds.  So HJ spread the court while their center handled the ball for over 2 minutes before the Bulldog fell on him!  It was comical to watch, but it was impressive, too.

[whsalum]

[quote name="True Blue" post="930874" timestamp="1292074699"]
There is no reason to sugar coat it. I have been with this group of boys sense they were 8 and they all know that I tell it like I see it. Their point guard that they have played sense they were 8 desided that it was more important to be a daddy than play ball his Sr year, what a waist :(
[/quote]Come on True, you weren't with this group of boys last year.Give the kid a break,once he became a daddy that was the most important thing.Sometimes folks make mistakes, it's good to see them take responsibilty when they do.

[DVILLE-GORILLA]

Evadale has been weak at the point for 5 years.  The last point guard they had was Judson Daws.  He could play at any position and really was not a true point guard but he needed little help getting the ball down against pressure.  Since then, the Rebels have struggled getting the ball past half court against a good press.  This years guard play is a little better than the past few years but a good press will make it difficult for the Rebels to control the turnovers.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="stevenash" post="931881" timestamp="1292180418"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg931820#msg931820 date=1292171991]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=77296.msg931742#msg931742 date=1292159674]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg930893#msg930893 date=1292079576]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=77296.msg930889#msg930889 date=1292078743]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg930200#msg930200 date=1292018734]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=77296.msg930138#msg930138 date=1292014115]
Basketball is about matchups.  You cant compare scores in the paper or game to game situations.  You can get a little info this way but not as much as you would think.
[/quote]Ah, heres a person that knows basketball. I'll find me a match to stop a spot up shooter in high school basketball anyday. Getting Nash started up again ;)
[/quote]

I am here and ready to start.  I would disagree with you because "some people" forget that basketball is a team game where all five players have a role (at least for the better teams) in making things happen.  Some defender might be capable of stopping a spot up shooter one on one, but a decent coach will get that shooter shots regardless of how good the particular defender is.   It really isnt that difficult to force "that defender" to cover someone else via screen/multiple screens.  Additionally, any spot up shooter who is going to be "shut down" by the defender will have that defender in his face.  Even the slowest of the slow that has any kind of basketball intellect has a response to that type of defensive effort.    If that defender holds his spot up shooting opponent to no shots taken or very few taken, the spot up shooter has simply provided some of his teammates with additional opportunities they might otherwise not have had.
[/quote]I knew you would come out sooner. But you make valid points. Lets just hope the "other teammates can score.
[/quote] IF none of the teammates can score, then your "team" has little chance.
[/quote]Give me a true point guard with the ability to score (shoot & drive), pass the ball, he'lll make his weaker teammates look good ;)
[/quote]

He sure will.  However, it takes more than a great point guard to make a team successful.  I am pretty sure that Kevin Johnson, John Stockton, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton(among others) would confirm my contention.
[/quote]A good PG and a good big man

[True Blue]

[quote name="whsalum" post="932231" timestamp="1292214611"]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=77296.msg930874#msg930874 date=1292074699]
There is no reason to sugar coat it. I have been with this group of boys sense they were 8 and they all know that I tell it like I see it. Their point guard that they have played sense they were 8 desided that it was more important to be a daddy than play ball his Sr year, what a waist :(
[/quote]Come on True, you weren't with this group of boys last year.Give the kid a break,once he became a daddy that was the most important thing.Sometimes folks make mistakes, it's good to see them take responsibilty when they do.
[/quote] I am not coming down on the kid for steping up to his responsiblites I was just saying that it was a waist of tallent. And just because I was not here ,I still made ever game I could when we were off. So I still can say I have been with them that long. And I still think this group will make it to the playoffs ,but unless they start getting better guard play they wont be going all the way...

[BLUEDOVE3]

Good guard play is the key.

[True Blue]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="932317" timestamp="1292251638"]
Good guard play is the key.
[/quote] It doesnt matter what level you are at, if you cant get the ball out of the back court with pressure your not going to win many games. Evadale has a center and two forwards aver. over 10 points a game but you have to have a guard get the ball up the floor in their hands. They have a shooting guard that shoots the set shoot 3 very well, and in games were they are able to get the ball up the floor and in his hands at his set spot , he is aver. 40% but in games were he is forced to help bring the ball up the floor he is only shooting 20%. But with only having 4 days  of practice and playing 12 games, its a work in process ;)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="True Blue" post="932384" timestamp="1292257444"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=77296.msg932317#msg932317 date=1292251638]
Good guard play is the key.
[/quote] It doesnt matter what level you are at, if you cant get the ball out of the back court with pressure your not going to win many games. Evadale has a center and two forwards aver. over 10 points a game but you have to have a guard get the ball up the floor in their hands. They have a shooting guard that shoots the set shoot 3 very well, and in games were they are able to get the ball up the floor and in his hands at his set spot , he is aver. 40% but in games were he is forced to help bring the ball up the floor he is only shooting 20%. But with only having 4 days  of practice and playing 12 games, its a work in process ;)
[/quote]So true ;)

[True Blue]

This Friday night they play Spurger and that should tell more about were they are at, seeing they are close to the same size. All but 1 of the teams that they have played this year have been bigger schools.

[east texas bb]

Did the good guard from Spurger graduate?  I knew last year they had a good point and a good post player.  Does anyone know if their good point graduated?

[CATMAN]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="932701" timestamp="1292293602"]
Did the good guard from Spurger graduate?  I knew last year they had a good point and a good post player.  Does anyone know if their good point graduated?
[/quote] He there last year.

[ST413]

Both still there..If you are talking pt guard

[AggiesAreWe]

Daniel Blankenship, the shooting guard, graduated last year. Chase McGallion, point guard, and George Whittaker, post, are back. Both are 4 year starters.

[caneyhead]

3a powerhouse picking on a 1a also ran. hj should be embarrassed.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="caneyhead" post="932846" timestamp="1292334210"]
3a powerhouse picking on a 1a also ran. hj should be embarrassed.
[/quote]Great post!!! Thanks for adding to the conversation. ::)

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="caneyhead" post="932846" timestamp="1292334210"]
3a powerhouse picking on a 1a also ran. hj should be embarrassed.
[/quote]What are you talking about?  It was a tournament.  You can't control whol you plan.  They knew what they were doing signing up for a 3a tourney.  Hawks simply did what they were supposed to do. 

[True Blue]

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="932881" timestamp="1292338168"]
[quote author=caneyhead link=topic=77296.msg932846#msg932846 date=1292334210]
3a powerhouse picking on a 1a also ran. hj should be embarrassed.
[/quote]What are you talking about?  It was a tournament.  You can't control whol you plan.  They knew what they were doing signing up for a 3a tourney.  [b]Hawks simply did what they were supposed to do[/b]. 
[/quote] Yea the Hawks did do what ever school does with their Tournaments. There was only 2 1a schools in the tournament just the luck of the draw that they both ended up in HJ pool ;). But with that being said, 3 out of the 4 team played in the championship games came from that pool. JMO pool A was the strongest pool to play in...

[Guest speechless]

find another school that is willing to put a defending state champion in their own pool

two pools represented both semi-final games of the main bracket

[Guest Abraham]

[quote name="True Blue" post="932305" timestamp="1292250308"]
[quote author=whsalum link=topic=77296.msg932231#msg932231 date=1292214611]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=77296.msg930874#msg930874 date=1292074699]
There is no reason to sugar coat it. I have been with this group of boys sense they were 8 and they all know that I tell it like I see it. Their point guard that they have played sense they were 8 desided that it was more important to be a daddy than play ball his Sr year, what a waist :(
[/quote]Come on True, you weren't with this group of boys last year.Give the kid a break,once he became a daddy that was the most important thing.Sometimes folks make mistakes, it's good to see them take responsibilty when they do.
[/quote] I am not coming down on the kid for steping up to his responsiblites I was just saying that it was a waist of tallent. And just because I was not here ,I still made ever game I could when we were off. So I still can say I have been with them that long. And I still think this group will make it to the playoffs ,but unless they start getting better guard play they wont be going all the way...
[/quote]

He wanted to play he has told me numerous times its just he said he needed to step up for his responsibilities and also that it would be hard for him to focus on basketball knowing where he needed to be.

[Guest Abraham]

Also the PG he is good and fast but ask his teamates his shot isn't the best. He can dribble and break a press but can't shoot so good.

[True Blue]

[quote name="Abraham" post="932956" timestamp="1292345826"]
Also the PG he is good and fast but ask his teamates his shot isn't the best. He can dribble and break a press but can't shoot so good.
[/quote] I am very proud of the fact that he has steped up and is taking responsibilte for his child, I just hate to see him lose his Sr year. Now a far as him being a point guard Evadale does not need a guard to be able to shoot they have plenty of scores they just need someone to get the ball up the floor with pressure.

[whambulance]

[quote name="Abraham" post="932956" timestamp="1292345826"]
Also the PG he is good and fast but ask his teamates his shot isn't the best. [b]He can dribble and break a press [/b] but can't shoot so good.
[/quote]Please don't read too much in to this, but no he can't.  I'm not calling out anyone nor hatting on anyone, but the Rebels do not have a point guard.  A point guard is someone that CAN break a press and penetrates to make things happen.  And they haven't had one of those in a long time!  Sure, there are a couple kids that can dribble well and can pass well and can bring the ball down when not pressed, but so can I!!!  A true point guard is a must to beat good teams, and I'm not talking about OCC or HI or their on JV, I mean good teams! 
I have no idea why but the point has been a problem at Evadale for a while.  The senior some have been talking about was too wild IMO.  Good athlete but could not protect the ball.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="whambulance" post="932982" timestamp="1292348588"]
[quote author=Abraham link=topic=77296.msg932956#msg932956 date=1292345826]
Also the PG he is good and fast but ask his teamates his shot isn't the best. [b]He can dribble and break a press [/b] but can't shoot so good.
[/quote]Please don't read too much in to this, but no he can't.  I'm not calling out anyone nor hatting on anyone, but the Rebels do not have a point guard.  A point guard is someone that CAN break a press and penetrates to make things happen.  And they haven't had one of those in a long time!  Sure, there are a couple kids that can dribble well and can pass well and can bring the ball down when not pressed, but so can I!!!  A true point guard is a must to beat good teams, and I'm not talking about OCC or HI or their on JV, I mean good teams! 
I have no idea why but the point has been a problem at Evadale for a while.  The senior some have been talking about was too wild IMO.  Good athlete but could not protect the ball.
[/quote]Its refreshing when people express their own honest opinions.