**Hardin-Jefferson at East Chambers BROADCAST**/HJ WINS 51-44!!!

[east texas bb]

Bluedove, it may be.  I love for the defense to play hard.  I find it hard to watch a team that does not play hard.  That being said, when a shooter goes up for a shot, he has to be protected. The area he left the floor and his body should not be touched, if he falls forward then the shooter will probably get a charge, which protects good defense.  The dribbler must also be protected, his progress should not be impeeded by the defense putting their hands or hip/body on the dribbler.  Those are the two main problems I see in offciating: protecting the shooter, and protecting the dribbler.  If you lose these two things you have lost alot of the great things that make basketball great. IMO

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="933646" timestamp="1292435736"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=77455.msg933633#msg933633 date=1292434819]
[quote author=86hawk link=topic=77455.msg933570#msg933570 date=1292430085]
i keep seeing the talk about the refs.  what does the ref have to do with a bad pass?  a turn over, missing free throws, missing open shots.?....they can call all the fouls in the world, good or bad, but still don't have anything to do with the the above mentioned issues.
[/quote]Really?  A couple of bad offensive calls can take a player out of the game.

Take Kountze and HJ in the HJ tournament final last year (2009).  Brey got his 4th foul early in the 3rd and Kountze wasn't the same after that.  I'm not saying any of the calls on Brey were bad, but you can see how a couple of calls can potentially cost a team the game.
[/quote]

I will defend 86hawk.............Having foul trouble does not cause you to make a bad pass, miss FT's, miss open shots, etc.  What it may cause is for you to place less aggressive on offense and defense, but not cause missing shots and TO's!!!!!!
[/quote]I agree that they don't cause the missed shots and what-not.... I never claimed they did.

But they can take a team completely out of their offense.  And it only takes a couple of bad calls.

[mfd814]

Calls need to be consistent on both sides. You can't let one team be the more aggressive team and not call fouls, and the other team gets ticky tack calls.  I agree with not impending the dribbler, but watch for his away forearm/elbow as well on the defender.  

Actually had a ref tell a player he could not play defense with his arms outstretched against a dribbler  (not touching the player) , they had to be up in the air.    SMH

[stevenash]

[quote name="mfd814" post="933802" timestamp="1292448488"]
Calls need to be consistent on both sides. You can't let one team be the more aggressive team and not call fouls, and the other team gets ticky tack calls.  I agree with not impending the dribbler, but watch for his away forearm/elbow as well on the defender.  

Actually had a ref tell a player he could not play defense with his arms outstretched against a dribbler  (not touching the player) , they had to be up in the air.    SMH
[/quote]

Saw a ref call an offensive foul on a post man when he inbounded the ball and then slowly jogged up the court while his dribbling teammate used him as a moving screen by staying close to him.  Ref told the coach it created a disadvantage for the defender.  Coach responded by saying creating disadvantages was the definition of offense.

[east texas bb]

That is crazy.  I would be pissed if I was the coach.  That is a simple Bolo screen.  Does the post not have the right to run down the court?  What does the official want him to do, seems like a pretty good way to get the ball up court.  Officials amaze me sometimes.

And I agree completely with who ever said the ballhandler should not be able to use his off hand to push in the direction of the defense.  You can use it to protect the ball and sweep through on an explosion, but the off hand has to go in the direction the player is. 

[Guest tripple threat]

Enough about the refs already.... This thread is about HJ vs EC game.  HJ normally doesn't stink it up at EC after their tourney.  What normally happens and happened again this year is.....Most of HJ's players have been in the gym for months while EC players are playing football 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs.  EC shows up at HJ marathon with football legs and stumble through the tourney trying to catch up with basketball teams who have been playing basketball instead of football.  By the time HJ goes to Winnie for this game, EC is playing a better brand of basketball.  Not to take anything away from HJ.  Look at the history.  HJ beats EC by 30 or so in the marathon and goes to EC a week later for a much closer game.

[BRONX ROX]

[quote name="tripple threat" post="935620" timestamp="1292675561"]
Enough about the refs already.... This thread is about HJ vs EC game.  HJ normally doesn't stink it up at EC after their tourney.  What normally happens and happened again this year is.....Most of HJ's players have been in the gym for months while EC players are playing football 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs.  EC shows up at HJ marathon with football legs and stumble through the tourney trying to catch up with basketball teams who have been playing basketball instead of football.  By the time HJ goes to Winnie for this game, EC is playing a better brand of basketball.  Not to take anything away from HJ.  Look at the history.  HJ beats EC by 30 or so in the marathon and goes to EC a week later for a much closer game.
[/quote]

It must be nice to have your football players playing basketball instead off off-season. I play ball with alot of the football players at the park on weekends and most of them would be an upgrade from what we have on the bench now and a starting spot or two. ;)

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="tripple threat" post="935620" timestamp="1292675561"]
Enough about the refs already.... This thread is about HJ vs EC game.  HJ normally doesn't stink it up at EC after their tourney. [u][b] What normally happens and happened again this year is.....Most of HJ's players have been in the gym for months while EC players are playing football 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs.  EC shows up at HJ marathon with football legs and stumble through the tourney trying to catch up with basketball teams who have been playing basketball instead of football. [/b][/u] By the time HJ goes to Winnie for this game, EC is playing a better brand of basketball.  Not to take anything away from HJ.  Look at the history.  HJ beats EC by 30 or so in the marathon and goes to EC a week later for a much closer game.
[/quote]Wow, a lot can happen in 4 days, eh?  Lose your football legs and gain your basketball legs.  That's impressive.

BTW, I don't recall ANYBODY blaming the refs for anything.

[Guest speechless]

hj played ec on friday afternoon? that big a difference between friday and tuesday?

[alice]

The big difference between friday and tuesday was a player who was out due to an injury friday but played on tuesday

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="alice" post="936107" timestamp="1292773786"]
The big difference between friday and tuesday was a player who was out due to an injury friday but played on tuesday
[/quote]There's also that intangible that you can't coach.  The one that can cause a 20 point swing in a game that no one anticipates.  Home court advantages contribute to this intangible, but there's much more to it than that.

[stevenash]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="936112" timestamp="1292775469"]
[quote author=alice link=topic=77455.msg936107#msg936107 date=1292773786]
The big difference between friday and tuesday was a player who was out due to an injury friday but played on tuesday
[/quote]There's also that intangible that you can't coach.  The one that can cause a 20 point swing in a game that no one anticipates.  Home court advantages contribute to this intangible, but there's much more to it than that.
[/quote]

Maybe we will get additional perspectives if they meet in the EC tourney

[Lazeek]

[quote name="alice" post="936107" timestamp="1292773786"]
The big difference between friday and tuesday was a player who was out due to an injury friday but played on tuesday
[/quote]

And who was that???

[alice]

# 12 for EC had his knee cap dislocated during the EC vs Lumberton game. He had been one of the top scorers and rebounders for the team. Dr Isabell drained it that friday night and he played some the next morning against Kountze and Lumberton but was not at 100% and still is not. Seems the Hawk Tourney is rough on kneecaps, rememmber Ricossa last year.

[aTmfan06]

[quote name="tripple threat" post="935620" timestamp="1292675561"]
Enough about the refs already.... This thread is about HJ vs EC game.  HJ normally doesn't stink it up at EC after their tourney.  What normally happens and happened again this year is.....Most of HJ's players have been in the gym for months while EC players are playing football 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs.  EC shows up at HJ marathon with football legs and stumble through the tourney trying to catch up with basketball teams who have been playing basketball instead of football.  By the time HJ goes to Winnie for this game, EC is playing a better brand of basketball.  Not to take anything away from HJ.  Look at the history.  HJ beats EC by 30 or so in the marathon and goes to EC a week later for a much closer game.
[/quote]
Better brand of basketball?? I don't think so