How does HJ compare to Silsbee this year?

[east texas bb]

And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics.
I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.

[bullets13]

Silsbee has been bigger, stronger, taller, and faster for the past several years, and their players have had plenty of basketball talent to go along with that advantage. 
:
as for why HJ can play with a silsbee team that's "15-20 points" better:

coaching.  also, it's a safe bet based on recent history.  silsbee is "15-20 points" better than HJ every year, according to many on this site, but the series has got to be even or dang close to it over the past five years.  HJ finds ways to win. 

[AggiesAreWe]

To take a sarcastic "woe is me" line from the HJ regulars, "We Tigers just ain't that good, HJ is just too dang good for us to even get on the same floor as the Hawks". ;)


That's how they can play with Silsbee.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940470" timestamp="1293847721"]
And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics.
I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.
[/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off.

There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!!

[AggiesAreWe]

Record the last 4 years (these are the years that these teams have been in the same district)


              HJ w's          Silsbee w's

'07           2                     1
'08           2                     2
'09           1                     2
'10           1                     2

Over all, Silsbee leads 7-6 in that span. Tigers have won 5 of last 7 though. ;)

[bullets13]

of course, it's HJ's turn to go to state this year.  can't wait!  :)

[BADSANTA]

Bullets13 Silsbee or Cleveland will be in state. My money goes on the Tigers all the way.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="940474" timestamp="1293848487"]
Record the last 4 years (these are the years that these teams have been in the same district)


              HJ w's          Silsbee w's

'07           2                     1
'08           2                     2
'09           1                     2
'10           1                     2

Over all, Silsbee leads 7-6 in that span. Tigers have won 5 of last 7 though. ;)
[/quote]You know, I don't think anyone at HJ is trying to belittle the Silsbee coaching staff.  I recall in 08, HJ came from over 10 points behind twice to win their home district game and then the district championship game (at the Montagne).  They also came back from over 10 points behind to almost steal away the game in Silsbee (I remember, we got away with a bad travel and double dribble at the end of the game and came up just short on the winning three pointer...... It would have been bedlam if we had made the shot.  That was the same night the JV got into a fight)

Anyway, in the Regional final, Silsbee stormed out to a 18-2 lead (or something like that).  HJ battled back to take a 6 or an 8 point lead and was THIS CLOSE to breaking Silsbee's back and blowing them away.  Silsbee recouped and won the game. 

Kudos go to the coaches for not letting Silsbee fall apart after blowing that huge lead.

[BADSANTA]

Here is what I have see. HJ fans think they are better than Tiger fans.

[east texas bb]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="940473" timestamp="1293848356"]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940470#msg940470 date=1293847721]
And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics.
I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.
[/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off.
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. 
There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!!
[/quote]
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. We will just see what the scores turn out to be.

[Bobcat1]

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="940480" timestamp="1293849632"]
Here is what I have see. HJ fans think they are better than Tiger fans.
[/quote]

You need a boat paddle with all the stirring you're doing.  ::)

[east texas bb]

A big sized boat paddle!!!!

[BADSANTA]

I'm paddling a cruise ship baby! HJ fans have always had a superior complex to Silsbee fans. I've even heard them in the stands. Well I'm here to say it and keep it honest. Silsbee fans are ready to stand behind our team louder than ever this year. HJ fans our Tigers are coming for a win but to crush the score board. Bad Santa will be at the game in a custom Tiger jersey ready to heckle your bench both home and away.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940500" timestamp="1293853421"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=78065.msg940473#msg940473 date=1293848356]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940470#msg940470 date=1293847721]
And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics.
I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.
[/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off.
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points.   
There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!!
[/quote]
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. We will just see what the scores turn out to be.
[/quote]I'm curious, who has made the claim that the HJ coaches are 15-20 points better than the Silsbee coaches?  I thought that you asked does HJ have any edge, and the claim was made that the HJ coaches are better.  Should anyone be castigated for having an opinion?  Wow!

[stevenash]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="940513" timestamp="1293855009"]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940500#msg940500 date=1293853421]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=78065.msg940473#msg940473 date=1293848356]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940470#msg940470 date=1293847721]
And what do you consider an athlete?  Someone that is quick and fast and that can jump high?  There are way more attributes of athletic ability than those describes above.  Putting a ball in a basket from 21 feet away with defense on you has to be hard, hitting a 85-90 mph fastball can be a very hard thing to do, making a pass between two people on the run for a layup and balance and hand eye coordination can be athletic charcteristics.
I guess I am the devils advocate, but I am trying to get to the root of the reason why everyone thinks HJ can play with Silsbee if they are 15-20 points better.
[/quote]It's pure and simple.  As it has been said before, when HJ jogs out on the court, they don't look like they can hang with Silsbee.  It's been like that for the last 4 (or so) years.  In the play-offs, its no different.  Navasota and Cleveland look like they can mop the floor with our players, but they end up driving home to sit the rest of the year off.
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points.   
There was a funny incident at the East Chambers tournament three years ago that seems to illustrate my point.  At the beginning of the game, HJ was at the free throw line shooting two.  One of the players from a Dallas school (couldn't remember the name) asked one of the HJ players "aren't you guys ranked 3rd in state?".  The Hawks replied that yes they were.  Looking at the players for HJ and at the bench, the Dallas player asked, "Are you guys missing some players for today's game?"  The Hawk just replied and said, "Nope".  HJ ended up winning 109-29!!!
[/quote]
I understand but that is a kid talking, I would hope that we would be a better judge than them.  All most kids see is if a team is athletic looking and this determines what they think.  Adults that understand basketball should be able to recognize whether a team is good or not, so in all I have gathered the Hj coaches are 15-20 point better coaches than Silsbee's coaches or the team from Dallas just dosent understand basketball.  Then why dont the coaches at HJ apply at Silsbee and they can go to state for sure every year.  I understand this is all talking but either HJ can beat Silsbee or Silsbee can beat HJ. Everyone is saying that Silsbee is a better team somewhere in the range of 15-20 points. We will just see what the scores turn out to be.
[/quote]I'm curious, who has made the claim that the HJ coaches are 15-20 points better than the Silsbee coaches?  I thought that you asked does HJ have any edge, and the claim was made that the HJ coaches are better.  Should anyone be castigated for having an opinion?  Wow!

Having a favorable/supportive opinion of HJ is, somehow, overtly. arrogant.  At the same time, if you come on this board and bash HJ supporters, you will be congratulated for your "passion" about basketball.

[east texas bb]

The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940515" timestamp="1293855415"]
The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.
[/quote]Well, its simple......... but I wouldn't call it logic.

You forget that damn intangible that can cause a 20 point swing, that coaches have no control over.

Take the HJ tournament with HJ and Cayuga.  2 days apart and there is a 15-20 point swing.  Or the HJ and EC matchup.  5 days apart and a 30 point swing. 

[stevenash]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940515" timestamp="1293855415"]
The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.
[/quote]

Bottom line:  None of us, individually or collectively, is smart enough to quantify the difference between two teams.  The "15-20 pt difference " talk is simply that, talk.  My guess would be that, most of the time,  Silsbee will have the edge in athleticism and depth, and HJ will have the same from a basketball intellect standpoint( I am speaking of players as opposed to coaches)  Teams that have done as well as both of these teams are bound to have competent coaching staffs to get as far as they do on a consistent basis.  There is no way to "prove" that Mack Brown is a better coach than Bob Stoops or vice versa.

[east texas bb]

What does that have to do with what we were talking about? And Logic is basically common sense so it is simple.  
And I dont suggest any one be castigated or casturated or both!!  People were making staements, from those statements a conclusion was drawn.  You ask me why you should be thrown out for your opinion, I didnt say you should, I took two statements and from those statements came up with a conclusion.  Then I said that what else could you gather from those two statements.

[east texas bb]

[quote name="stevenash" post="940518" timestamp="1293856125"]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940515#msg940515 date=1293855415]
The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.
[/quote]

Bottom line:  None of us, individually or collectively, is smart enough to quantify the difference between two teams.  The "15-20 pt difference " talk is simply that, talk.  My guess would be that, most of the time,  Silsbee will have the edge in athleticism and depth, and HJ will have the same from a basketball intellect standpoint( I am speaking of players as opposed to coaches)  Teams that have done as well as both of these teams are bound to have competent coaching staffs to get as far as they do on a consistent basis.  There is no way to "prove" that Mack Brown is a better coach than Bob Stoops or vice versa.
[/quote]

Agree 100 percent.

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="stevenash" post="940518" timestamp="1293856125"]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940515#msg940515 date=1293855415]
The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.
[/quote]

[b]Bottom line:  None of us, individually or collectively, is smart enough to quantify the difference between two teams.  The "15-20 pt difference " talk is simply that, talk.  My guess would be that, most of the time,  Silsbee will have the edge in athleticism and depth, and HJ will have the same from a basketball intellect standpoint( I am speaking of players as opposed to coaches)  Teams that have done as well as both of these teams are bound to have competent coaching staffs to get as far as they do on a consistent basis.  There is no way to "prove" that Mack Brown is a better coach than Bob Stoops or vice versa[/b].
[/quote]




Out of all the posts made on this thread, this is the most inteligent post of them all. Great post Nash. Kudos to you sir.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="940519" timestamp="1293856208"]
What does that have to do with what we were talking about? And Logic is basically common sense so it is simple.  
And I dont suggest any one be castigated or casturated or both!!  People were making staements, from those statements a conclusion was drawn.  You ask me why you should be thrown out for your opinion, I didnt say you should, I took two statements and from those statements came up with a conclusion.  Then I said that what else could you gather from those two statements.
[/quote]And I simply explained that your conclusion is illogical.  The examples I gave had the same coaches and the same teams and within a few days, there was more than a 20 point swing in each set of games.  

That would lead the perceptive person to realize that there is more than simply good coaching to make a 15-20 point swing in a game.

Now, as every HJ fan on this thread has indicated, the Silsbee coaches are very, very good.  We happen to think that the HJ coaches are better.  But no one has come close to saying that the HJ coaches are 15-20 points better than the Silsbee coaches.  That has been your conclusion and only yours, and it has led others (aka BadSanta, for example) to claim all HJ fans are arrogant.

[AggiesAreWe]

I don't know how someone could claim that "everyone" thinks Silsbee is 15-20 points better than HJ. I have seen a couple of posters claim that, but those are your standard idiots.

I certainly don't think Silsbee is 15-20 points better and I am as big a Silsbee fan as they come.

[BADSANTA]

Faninthestand nice point now get your boogy on for New Years! I'm out for the night!

[Bobcat1]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="940521" timestamp="1293856389"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=78065.msg940518#msg940518 date=1293856125]
[quote author=east texas bb link=topic=78065.msg940515#msg940515 date=1293855415]
The claim was Silsbee was a better basketball team by 15-20 points.  Then people were saying that HJ would still find a way to win.  What else can you get from those two statements.  That is the writing that is on the wall, I am just reading it.  If HJ still wins and Silsbee's team is a 15-20 point better team then would their coaches not be 15-20 points better?  That is simple logic.
[/quote]

[b]Bottom line:  None of us, individually or collectively, is smart enough to quantify the difference between two teams.  The "15-20 pt difference " talk is simply that, talk.  My guess would be that, most of the time,  Silsbee will have the edge in athleticism and depth, and HJ will have the same from a basketball intellect standpoint( I am speaking of players as opposed to coaches)  Teams that have done as well as both of these teams are bound to have competent coaching staffs to get as far as they do on a consistent basis.  There is no way to "prove" that Mack Brown is a better coach than Bob Stoops or vice versa[/b].
[/quote]




Out of all the posts made on this thread, this is the most inteligent post of them all. Great post Nash. Kudos to you sir.
[/quote]

I agree 100% AAW!!