Private-public reintergration

[bojonomore]

I understand that private schools have their own league since they can recruit players.  But its not like this is a huge advantage for them.  Let's take Kelly-the most notable private school in the area.  In football and basketball, in the district with WOS, Silsbee, HJ, BC, OF, and HF, they would be pretty average.  In baseball, they would be a little better.  They obviously don't have a distinct advantage.

In fact, being part of the UIL would give them a big boost, because it would greatly increase their notoriety.  They would be able to play district teams that are MUCH closer to them, and attendance would probably receive a huge boost.  Plus, if Texas does go to 6 classifications, it would help make sure that the classifications didn't get watered down.  They already do it in Louisiana and in a couple other states that I am aware of.

So there's my opinion.  Thoughts?

[badndn]

It would ruin Texas HS Football.  The Privates would dominate and interest from loyal public HS football fans would wane. The reason that Kelly is not dominant in this area now is because they don't get to play in the UIL playoffs which is the pinnacle of TX HS FB. Thus they are not able to recruit as well like they do in LA, Ohio, Fla, NJ, Cali and others. If you were a top FB player at say WOS or WB, would you rather play in the under publicized private school state title or possibly play in the UIL playoffs? Easy answer, but if Kelly were allowed to play for the same UIL title, then the best area talent would love to play together making the odds of playing for that UIL title much greater. Imagine if the top talent from WOS left for Kelly. What would that do to WOS football and it's fans?

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="badndn" post="940844" timestamp="1293936518"]
It would ruin Texas HS Football.  The Privates would dominate and interest from loyal public HS football fans would wane. The reason that Kelly is not dominant in this area now is because they don't get to play in the UIL playoffs which is the pinnacle of TX HS FB. Thus they are not able to recruit as well like they do in LA, Ohio, Fla, NJ, Cali and others. If you were a top FB player at say WOS or WB, would you rather play in the under publicized private school state title or possibly play in the UIL playoffs? Easy answer, but if Kelly were allowed to play for the same UIL title, then the best area talent would love to play together making the odds of playing for that UIL title much greater. Imagine if the top talent from WOS left for Kelly. What would that do to WOS football and it's fans?
[/quote]good post

[BRONX ROX]

[quote name="badndn" post="940844" timestamp="1293936518"]
It would ruin Texas HS Football.  The Privates would dominate and interest from loyal public HS football fans would wane. The reason that Kelly is not dominant in this area now is because they don't get to play in the UIL playoffs which is the pinnacle of TX HS FB. Thus they are not able to recruit as well like they do in LA, Ohio, Fla, NJ, Cali and others. If you were a top FB player at say WOS or WB, would you rather play in the under publicized private school state title or possibly play in the UIL playoffs? Easy answer, but if Kelly were allowed to play for the same UIL title, then the best area talent would love to play together making the odds of playing for that UIL title much greater. Imagine if the top talent from WOS left for Kelly. What would that do to WOS football and it's fans?
[/quote]
Good post I agree ;D

[tog]

They should never have let them in.  We do not want to end up like the other states with privates and public schools mixed. 

[bojonomore]

[quote name="BRONX ROX" post="940867" timestamp="1293940055"]
[quote author=badndn link=topic=78160.msg940844#msg940844 date=1293936518]
It would ruin Texas HS Football.  The Privates would dominate and interest from loyal public HS football fans would wane. The reason that Kelly is not dominant in this area now is because they don't get to play in the UIL playoffs which is the pinnacle of TX HS FB. Thus they are not able to recruit as well like they do in LA, Ohio, Fla, NJ, Cali and others. If you were a top FB player at say WOS or WB, would you rather play in the under publicized private school state title or possibly play in the UIL playoffs? Easy answer, but if Kelly were allowed to play for the same UIL title, then the best area talent would love to play together making the odds of playing for that UIL title much greater. Imagine if the top talent from WOS left for Kelly. What would that do to WOS football and it's fans?
[/quote]
Good post I agree ;D
[/quote]

8 of the 20 semifinalists in the Louisiana playoffs were private schools, and there is much more tradition in public schools in Texas than in private.  What makes you think that the best players at, say a central, would want to leave the school system they grew up in, for the team they probably grew up rooting for, to go to Kelly?  And how many players would Dan Hooks lose to a school all the way in Beaumont? And besides, being an open enrollment school district, WOS gets to do that anyway (see: Earl Thomas, James Haynes).  

[the wise one]

Well lets say i am a great HS football player at Central, and i have a real good friend at West Brooke that is a great player and we have some other buddies that are really good at Ozen why wouldnt we want to move to kelly and play for a state championship Together?

[falcolnfanatic]

I don't think anyone that would disagree that the quality of education is typically better in private schools than in public. So why if you had the chance to get a scholarship to a private school would you stay at the public level. I hate the private schools that get their players of all over the place are included in national polls. High school sports is about the town and the home grown talent. Its about which area has the best players not who can bring in the most. Letting private schools join the uil will forever destroy the greatness that is Texas high school football. I love that we are one of the only states who's best teams are not private schools. Also the rule for the open enrollment schools is that the players still have to live in the district to play.

P.S. since we did we start copying what loserana does anyway.  ;D

[bojonomore]

[quote name="D WADE" post="940882" timestamp="1293942471"]
Well lets say i am a great HS football player at Central, and i have a real good friend at West Brooke that is a great player and we have some other buddies that are really good at Ozen why wouldnt we want to move to kelly and play for a state championship Together?
[/quote]

To use Louisiana as a reference (b/c I don't know much about non-Texas high school football outside of LA) the two best teams in the state, two nationally ranked teams - West Monroe and Acadiana - are both public schools.  Its not like public schools can't compete.

And to look at this from the private school standpoint, they are being deprived of the advantages that these big-time sports programs have to offer.

[BearBryant]

[quote name="falconfanatic" post="940902" timestamp="1293945317"]
I don't think anyone that would disagree that the quality of education is typically better in private schools than in public. [/quote]

That is a MAJOR misconception. Private schools don't have to adhere to the same guidelines that public schools do.  Private schools can hire joe-blow the sacker at Market basket to teach Algebra if they want to. Now with that being said there are some very elite private schools but by and large the publics out do the privates in the area of quality of education. 

[bojonomore]

[quote name="bearbryant" post="940949" timestamp="1293985665"]
[quote author=falconfanatic link=topic=78160.msg940902#msg940902 date=1293945317]
I don't think anyone that would disagree that the quality of education is typically better in private schools than in public. [/quote]

That is a MAJOR misconception. Private schools don't have to adhere to the same guidelines that public schools do.  Private schools can hire joe-blow the sacker at Market basket to teach Algebra if they want to. Now with that being said there are some very elite private schools but by and large the publics out do the privates in the area of quality of education. 
[/quote]

At Beaumont Legacy, they use Rosetta Stone for foreign languages.  They also have one of the highest rates of students going on to four-year universities, and they are not really even an elite private school.  Just because that private schools can hire Joe Blow doesn't mean that they do.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="A Bear's Bear" post="940959" timestamp="1293988908"]
[quote author=bearbryant link=topic=78160.msg940949#msg940949 date=1293985665]
[quote author=falconfanatic link=topic=78160.msg940902#msg940902 date=1293945317]
I don't think anyone that would disagree that the quality of education is typically better in private schools than in public. [/quote]

That is a MAJOR misconception. Private schools don't have to adhere to the same guidelines that public schools do.  Private schools can hire joe-blow the sacker at Market basket to teach Algebra if they want to. Now with that being said there are some very elite private schools but by and large the publics out do the privates in the area of quality of education. 
[/quote]

At Beaumont Legacy, they use Rosetta Stone for foreign languages.  They also have one of the highest rates of students going on to four-year universities, and they are not really even an elite private school.  Just because that private schools can hire Joe Blow doesn't mean that they do.
[/quote]The majority of parents put their kids in Kelly to prepare them for college. Therefore, the school or schools like this will show a higher percentage going on to college ;)

[WOSgrad]

To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

WB recruiting from Kelly and Ozen  ;D      no really are they?? hmmmm ???

[griff]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="941007" timestamp="1294001796"]
To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.
[/quote]
Yes, sir, that's exactly the method that should be used - making the privates play in the highest classification.  Strake Jesuit went "public" in their athletic competition a few years ago, and they are in the same division with the Alief schools.  That's the way it should be, if done at all.  Grad, let's also remember, concerning the open enrollment comment pointing to WO-S, that the majority of football players who who transferred [u]to LCM [b]from WO-S[/b][/u] (and there have been more than a few over the years) were not able to accept the disciplinary demands placed on them in the WO-S program.  Sour grapes is correct.  ::)

[bojonomore]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="941007" timestamp="1294001796"]
To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.
[/quote]
I can point you out a plethora of examples, and where they lived.  And you know that the players who go to LCM that lived outside of enrollment did so because of being back-ups, or in trouble, in the coaches' doghouse, etc. live in WOS.  As far as open enrollment, that won't even start at LCM until 2nd semester. I'm not being bitter towards WOS I am pointing out a fact. About Louisiana, John Curtis did not even when the 2A state championship this year, and I would definately argue that West Monroe could beat John Curtis more years than not.  And Acadiana is as high as 10th in some national polls.  Not better most years, but I was talking about this year.

[mat]

[quote name="griff" post="941012" timestamp="1294002977"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=78160.msg941007#msg941007 date=1294001796]
To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.
[/quote]
Yes, sir, that's exactly the method that should be used - making the privates play in the highest classification.  Strake Jesuit went "public" in their athletic competition a few years ago, and they are in the same division with the Alief schools.  That's the way it should be, if done at all.  Grad, let's also remember, concerning the open enrollment comment pointing to WO-S, that the majority of football players who who transferred [u]to LCM [b]from WO-S[/b][/u] (and there have been more than a few over the years) were not able to accept the disciplinary demands placed on them in the WO-S program.  Sour grapes is correct.  ::)

[/quote]

It seems the two of you are quite sensitive about the notion that sometime in the history of WOS’ success a player or players may have experienced some type of recruitment, invite, encouragement or persuasion to play for WOS. There would be nothing wrong with that because that’s one of the advantages of open enrollment. It doesn’t mean Hooks is on the phone recruiting players.

There are also several reasons a student or athlete would transfer to LCM and that’s OK too if they move within the district.

Two separate districts with plenty to offer in different areas.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="mat" post="941147" timestamp="1294018542"]
[quote author=griff link=topic=78160.msg941012#msg941012 date=1294002977]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=78160.msg941007#msg941007 date=1294001796]
To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.
[/quote]
Yes, sir, that's exactly the method that should be used - making the privates play in the highest classification.  Strake Jesuit went "public" in their athletic competition a few years ago, and they are in the same division with the Alief schools.  That's the way it should be, if done at all.  Grad, let's also remember, concerning the open enrollment comment pointing to WO-S, that the majority of football players who who transferred [u]to LCM [b]from WO-S[/b][/u] (and there have been more than a few over the years) were not able to accept the disciplinary demands placed on them in the WO-S program.  Sour grapes is correct.  ::)

[/quote]

It seems the two of you are quite sensitive about the notion that sometime in the history of WOS’ success a player or players may have experienced some type of recruitment, invite, encouragement or persuasion to play for WOS. There would be nothing wrong with that because that’s one of the advantages of open enrollment. It doesn’t mean Hooks is on the phone recruiting players.

There are also several reasons a student or athlete would transfer to LCM and that’s OK too if they move within the district.

Two separate districts with plenty to offer in different areas.

[/quote]

Nope, not sensitive.  Just sick and tired of hearing allegations or implications that the key to the Mustang's successful football for the last 25 years is due to recruiting and the failure to accept that those kids that are legally within the school district and the coaches that have guided them are just in many cases better.  I have defended a number of athletic directors and coaches in other school districts and I decided that it is high time I begin to defend those that are in my home town.

If allegations (and I don't mean yours A Bear's Bear, you have adequately explained your position) that have been posted on the board about the Hooks and the Mustangs (which have been left unedited and not removed) would have been posted about any other coach in the area, my pm box would be loaded with calls for locking of threads, deletion of posts and lifetime banishment of posters and my email full of complaint e-mails.  Believe me, I know this from experience.

Well, from here on in, when the allegation flies, there WILL be at least one graduate of West Orange-Stark High School that fires back.  If you wish you wish to dismiss it as sensitivity, so be it.

[BRONX ROX]

WOW WOSgrad :o Dont take it to personal. I hear it every year about Dayton and Coach Stewart. It does seem like we get some move ins every year but if a parent wants to give their child a "better" opportunity then so be it. Ever notice the ones always cryin are the ones who have to find another team to root for come playoffs ;D

[mat]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="941152" timestamp="1294019001"]
[quote author=mat link=topic=78160.msg941147#msg941147 date=1294018542]
[quote author=griff link=topic=78160.msg941012#msg941012 date=1294002977]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=78160.msg941007#msg941007 date=1294001796]
To site Louisiana as an example as they are allegations of buying championships is rampant there.  West Monroe and Acadiana, unfortunately are not Louisiana's best teams.  They may be among them but the best teams in Louisiana, but the best team in Louisiana is John Curtis, a private school that because of it's population gets to play in the 2A ranks.  They are allowed to recruit and can draw folks away from the public schools.

I am vehemently opposed to the UIL allowing private schools into it's membership.  If it does occur, it must happen in the same fashion as Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit were admitted...that is if they come in, they play in the highest classification.

Now, finally as to your charge that WO-S is recruiting.  It rings of sour grapes from North of I-10 as there is a school in Orange County that has been able to boost its football team because of open enrollment.....the Little Cypress-Mauriceville Bears.
[/quote]
Yes, sir, that's exactly the method that should be used - making the privates play in the highest classification.  Strake Jesuit went "public" in their athletic competition a few years ago, and they are in the same division with the Alief schools.  That's the way it should be, if done at all.  Grad, let's also remember, concerning the open enrollment comment pointing to WO-S, that the majority of football players who who transferred [u]to LCM [b]from WO-S[/b][/u] (and there have been more than a few over the years) were not able to accept the disciplinary demands placed on them in the WO-S program.  Sour grapes is correct.  ::)

[/quote]

It seems the two of you are quite sensitive about the notion that sometime in the history of WOS’ success a player or players may have experienced some type of recruitment, invite, encouragement or persuasion to play for WOS. There would be nothing wrong with that because that’s one of the advantages of open enrollment. It doesn’t mean Hooks is on the phone recruiting players.

There are also several reasons a student or athlete would transfer to LCM and that’s OK too if they move within the district.

Two separate districts with plenty to offer in different areas.

[/quote]

Nope, not sensitive.  Just sick and tired of hearing allegations or implications that the key to the Mustang's successful football for the last 25 years is due to recruiting and the failure to accept that those kids that are legally within the school district and the coaches that have guided them are just in many cases better.  I have defended a number of athletic directors and coaches in other school districts and I decided that it is high time I begin to defend those that are in my home town.

If allegations (and I don't mean yours A Bear's Bear, you have adequately explained your position) that have been posted on the board about the Hooks and the Mustangs (which have been left unedited and not removed) would have been posted about any other coach in the area, my pm box would be loaded with calls for locking of threads, deletion of posts and lifetime banishment of posters and my email full of complaint e-mails.  Believe me, I know this from experience.

Well, from here on in, when the allegation flies, there WILL be at least one graduate of West Orange-Stark High School that fires back.  If you wish you wish to dismiss it as sensitivity, so be it.
[/quote]

I truly appreciate your defense of the premier football program in our area. I don’t dispute your claim of defending other programs either but on a thread with one post from Bear (whom you exclude as your reason for your defense) you had no problem pointing your finger north of I 10 and singling out LCM for  sour grapes.

FYI – I am a proud Stark graduate too.

[falcolnfanatic]

People keep saying that recruiting is an advantage that open enrollment schools have. Maybe I am wrong but I thought the rule was that no students can participate in extra curricular activities unless they physically live in that diatrict.  So even if a school does have open enrollment the kids still have to live in the district before they can play.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="A Bear's Bear" post="941013" timestamp="1294003187"]
About Louisiana, John Curtis did not even when the 2A state championship this year, and I would definately argue that West Monroe could beat John Curtis more years than not.  And Acadiana is as high as 10th in some national polls.  Not better most years, but I was talking about this year.
[/quote]

You are correct, they lost to a no-name school by the name of Evangel Christian (yes, I am being sarcastic).

[kicker]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="941269" timestamp="1294025661"]
[quote author=A Bear's Bear link=topic=78160.msg941013#msg941013 date=1294003187]
About Louisiana, John Curtis did not even when the 2A state championship this year, and I would definately argue that West Monroe could beat John Curtis more years than not.  And Acadiana is as high as 10th in some national polls.  Not better most years, but I was talking about this year.
[/quote]

You are correct, they lost to a no-name school by the name of Evangel Christian (yes, I am being sarcastic).
[/quote]

Ahh, Evangel, talk about a mini college. They recruit out of state. I believe they are in Shreveport. That school is a QB breedhouse. Im trying to think of the QB that came out of there a few years ago. I think he played at Michigan??

[Jackthehammer]

Ohio playoffs were alot of private schools.

[Kville_Kats]

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone or any school,But when high school coaches get to recruting athletes I think it just went over the edge...This is for adult egos and nothing more...I remember when the kids had fun playing the game,not being put under so much pressure with the win at any cost attitude that fans and coaches have began not to expect,but to demand out of the kids, they start talking play offs before the first pre season game is played...In a nut shell it's getting out of hand...I love high school football played it myself,but the way it's going now I don't know if I could play under those conditions if I was still a kid....JMO