Hey Refs there should be a new system

[3PoPPeR-#1]

sometimes i think the game is decided before the game even starts  :-\... Refs play to big of roll in bball these days and its always one sided

[whsalum]

[quote name="Lt. Dangle" post="951742" timestamp="1295544357"]

It seems like there are a bunch of ex-refs evaluating current refs on this post. If you all are so well versed on how it should be done, then get back in the "kitchen" and help all of these pitiful refs. I expect etbb to lead the charge. You can pm me because I'm sure I could use a few pointers.
[/quote]Probably not a lot of ex-refs commenting on here, just a lot of folks with an opinion.I am an ex ref but I'm not evaluating just voicing an opinion.I started officiating years ago because I would stop on the way home and watch a football coach and a bus driver call a game and didn't think the kids were getting a fair shake.There are some really good officials in this area.If there is one thing they used to emphasize in all the chapters it was getting in shape before the season started.That still should be a mandate, you need to be able to get up and down the floor to call a varsity ball game.

[east texas bb]

Good post wshaslum. 

I think some are getting a little personal on here with how they are disagreeing with officiating.  There are some good officials in all areas it is just the few that dont care at all and the few that just come into the game for the paycheck that give the officials bad names.  If officials  will come into the game with as much desire as the coaches and players to call a good game, and there are officials out there that do, then you will see a very good game from all angles.

[trophyman]

I called ball back when you got 10 dollars per game and no mileage.
I never said that all refs were bad, the most in upper classes do a good job! but for the most part in this area what I've seen in 1-a are not as lets just say good. There are some that love the game and do very well.  When they just come back with if you don't like it suit up and try it your self tells me there not intrested in improving AND ITS A BURDON ON THEM TO TRY!

[east texas bb]

I agree trophyman.  Nothing was directed at you from my comment.  Just a generalization.

[UKCats]

I called high school softball and basketball for almost 6 years while I was in college, and I definitely agree that it is not an easy job. However, if you are going to give an official the authority to take a coaches job then I believe they too should be held accountable. I sat behind a coach that was ejected after another fan sitting behind him called the official a dumba**. The gym was full of tension because the game had been pretty poorly officiated and the coach was not even allowed to plead his case. The official thought the coach had said it and he was escorted out. So a coach, with a job that requires a college degree, had to go to UIL because someone in the stands called an "oversensitive" official a dumba**. There should definitely be some form of accountability!

[east texas bb]

UKCats, your statement goes to the heart of my entire argument.  Well put. 

[east texas bb]

These were the kind of examples I was talking about.  Thank you for that post.

[underarmor]

I for one do not like 3 referees for a game. You are going to miss some calls even with 3 refs, so here is my idea; lets go back to 2 refs a game. There was nothing wrong with the game then and nobody would object to just two refs doing a game. The more people tinker with this game the worse it gets. Look what they have done to football. JMO
Dont want to hear quicker,stronger,and better athletes; go tell that to Michael Jordan,Oscar Robertson, or or Bill Russell they played the game with two refs and no problems.
Besides referees can only please 50% of the fans on any given nite ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

My coach always said be 20 points ahead and it wont matter. ;)

[Wildcatter]

We have had alot of 2 man crews, maybe we should just call our own fouls and save the money!

[pinelandflash]

I just watched possibly the worst-officiated game since the 1994 NFC championship game tonight in Colmesneil. There was no flow to the game! There were 85 are so free throws between both teams (the Lady Tigers and Lady Bulldogs). Colmesneil had only 7 field goals for the game yet they scored 40 points! The call that stands out in my mind is one where the Colmesneil player stumbled over her own feet and the referee( who was staring right at the play) called a 5th foul on our guard when she was at least 5 feet away from her!

[UKCats]

I watched a game tonight where a referee (who claimed to be a veteran) watched a team inbound the ball, take 4 or 5 dribbles, make a pass and then granted a time out to the opposing team who was on defense at the time btw. And some people believe these guys shouldn't be held accountable. . .really?!? Please tell me there is an appropriate channel in which to file these complaints so that UIL can realize the err of their ways. IMO this shouldn't be a referee bashing session but a means to a much needed end.

[jabu84]

[quote name="UKCats" post="952859" timestamp="1295679902"]
I watched a game tonight where a referee (who claimed to be a veteran) watched a team inbound the ball, take 4 or 5 dribbles, make a pass and then granted a time out to the opposing team who was on defense at the time btw. And some people believe these guys shouldn't be held accountable. . .really?!? Please tell me there is an appropriate channel in which to file these complaints so that UIL can realize the err of their ways. IMO this shouldn't be a referee bashing session but a means to a much needed end.
[/quote]

go to the chapter

[jabu84]

[quote name="trophyman" post="952255" timestamp="1295633074"]
I called ball back when you got 10 dollars per game and no mileage.
I never said that all refs were bad, the most in upper classes do a good job! but for the most part in this area what I've seen in 1-a are not as lets just say good. There are some that love the game and do very well.  When they just come back with if you don't like it suit up and try it your self tells me there not intrested in improving AND ITS A BURDON ON THEM TO TRY!
[/quote]

1 a games will not get good officials until playoffs. 1-a is a starting point for 1st year varsity officials.

[trophyman]

Why don't 1-A pay the same as3or4-a

[jabu84]

[quote name="trophyman" post="952868" timestamp="1295683221"]
Why don't 1-A pay the same as3or4-a
[/quote]

its not about pay its more about skill set

[trophyman]

why skill set? we have ten guys on the floor in our games just like they do.

[UKCats]

[quote name="trophyman" post="952972" timestamp="1295716569"]
why skill set? we have ten guys on the floor in our games just like they do.

[/quote]

Sorry off topic a bit, but I can't resist. I believe there are exceptions to every rule. . .but on a regular basis do you really think that a 1A school could compete in a 3A district? Possibly the best kid on a 1A could beat the best kid on a 3A team, but it just seems like common sense to me that a 3A school would have MORE kids with a greater skill set. Again this is excluding the rare exception. JMO

[jabu84]

[quote name="trophyman" post="952972" timestamp="1295716569"]
why skill set? we have ten guys on the floor in our games just like they do.

[/quote]

if 1a school was to play a 5a school they would beat up physically. there a are bumps, slaps, pushes, and nudges that happen during a 5a game that the players can play through. where a 1a game i would have to ref it tighter because most of the kids can't handle the contact.

[east texas bb]

I dont understand why 1A should be different than 5A?  Basketball is basketball.  To allow it to be more physical at the 5A level is taking the skills that the 5A players have worked on away.

[trophyman]

ukcats you are right but i've seen 1-a and 2-a schools beat 5-a schools in a lot of sports
common sense tells you when you have more to choose from you can find better players .
this is not always the case and just because your a 5-a school don't give you an automatic win

[east texas bb]

I agree, I played at a 2A school and we beat the pants off of 3A, 4A, and 5a schools.  And most were from this Region which is the toughest Region not another region.

[BIGMO44]

[quote name="horndawg" post="951036" timestamp="1295449565"]
It is easy to get on here and complain.......why not man up and ref a few games yourself and see how much more difficult it is than what it looks like from the stands.....but that would require you to actually do something.....

Or better yet, lets make it a rule that all refs must sit in the stands because so much more can be seen from there.......

PS: I am not a ref
[/quote]dawg you make a good point. But I'm not a Ref because I know I'd blow it...often.  So, if I pay to watch a game that my kid or kids I've known their entire life I do expect the best effort possible from the Refs that are GETTING PAID.  Now I do understand that there will be mistakes, thats part of it and as a player you play through it, but it does seem that the last few years there has been a turn for the worse concerning officiating.  I have seen one Ref basically call the whole game from all over the floor and some Refs think they must blow the whistle to seem as if their doing their job...I dont have the answer but if you spend much time watching BB its obvious that the quality is going down.  If Ive got to man up and call a game before I can state an opinion than we must all serve as President before we voice our opinion concerning our country...I know, a bit of a stretch but just making a point...JMO

[horndawg]

[quote name="BIGMO44" post="953533" timestamp="1295824323"]
[quote author=horndawg link=topic=78978.msg951036#msg951036 date=1295449565]
It is easy to get on here and complain.......why not man up and ref a few games yourself and see how much more difficult it is than what it looks like from the stands.....but that would require you to actually do something.....

Or better yet, lets make it a rule that all refs must sit in the stands because so much more can be seen from there.......

PS: I am not a ref
[/quote]dawg you make a good point. But I'm not a Ref because I know I'd blow it...often.  So, if I pay to watch a game that my kid or kids I've known their entire life I do expect the best effort possible from the Refs that are GETTING PAID.  Now I do understand that there will be mistakes, thats part of it and as a player you play through it, but it does seem that the last few years there has been a turn for the worse concerning officiating.  I have seen one Ref basically call the whole game from all over the floor and some Refs think they must blow the whistle to seem as if their doing their job...I dont have the answer but if you spend much time watching BB its obvious that the quality is going down.  If Ive got to man up and call a game before I can state an opinion than we must all serve as President before we voice our opinion concerning our country...I know, a bit of a stretch but just making a point...JMO

[/quote]
Don't have a problem with people stating there opinion, but just like voicing your opinion concerning our country, if your not willing to get involved in making changes in things you are concerned about, then quit griping.....JMO as well

[TeamJagUS]

[quote name="horndawg" post="953572" timestamp="1295828264"]
[quote author=BIGMO44 link=topic=78978.msg953533#msg953533 date=1295824323]
[quote author=horndawg link=topic=78978.msg951036#msg951036 date=1295449565]
It is easy to get on here and complain.......why not man up and ref a few games yourself and see how much more difficult it is than what it looks like from the stands.....but that would require you to actually do something.....

Or better yet, lets make it a rule that all refs must sit in the stands because so much more can be seen from there.......

PS: I am not a ref
[/quote]dawg you make a good point. But I'm not a Ref because I know I'd blow it...often.  So, if I pay to watch a game that my kid or kids I've known their entire life I do expect the best effort possible from the Refs that are GETTING PAID.  Now I do understand that there will be mistakes, thats part of it and as a player you play through it, but it does seem that the last few years there has been a turn for the worse concerning officiating.  I have seen one Ref basically call the whole game from all over the floor and some Refs think they must blow the whistle to seem as if their doing their job...I dont have the answer but if you spend much time watching BB its obvious that the quality is going down.  If Ive got to man up and call a game before I can state an opinion than we must all serve as President before we voice our opinion concerning our country...I know, a bit of a stretch but just making a point...JMO

[/quote]
Don't have a problem with people stating there opinion, but just like voicing your opinion concerning our country, if your not willing to get involved in making changes in things you are concerned about, then quit griping.....JMO as well
[/quote]

i believe that was the point of the thread, thats how involvement starts, first analysis, then opinion, then suggestions, then possibly making changes if one is in a position to do so. as long as it stays constructive it should be all good. but ever few posts someone gets defensive and says "oh yeah well you've never done it so just shut up about it", more or less. that reminds me of the story of the emperor's clothes, nobody is supposed to notice or at least not say anything right?

"getting involved" doesn't mean "go be a ref" necessarily, it may mean alot of things, including constructive criticism. but to say somebody shouldn't have an opinion because they've never done it doesn't hold water imho. there have been some credible suggestions in the thread. and btw, most of the issues don't involve missed calls, that happens, it involves rather obvious bias and inconsistency, and the guys out there busting their tails doing a good job don't deserve the reputation of their craft being tarnished by a [b]few[/b] that don't.

its pretty shallow to assume that we're only happy with the officials when our team wins. i've seen well called games where we've gotten drummed, and i've seen some sorry ones where we would have gotten drummed anyway because of poor play. and yes even poorly called games (in our favor) where we came out on top and those too i wished were done right.

this thread is somewhat negative but given the responses it seems that it is also necessary. i guess i see your point in as much as we should start "reporting" officials to uil or the chapter instead of bringing it up on a very popular and well read forum, but folks are gonna go where somebody will 1. listen, and 2. either support them or convince them theres no reason for concern. so the forum is not important enough to promote change but is important enough to be a problem if someone complains publicly on it? make up your mind. maybe you're right, maybe the "complainers" should form a watchdog group to meet and voice our concerns in a unified way to the uil (how do you think that would fly?), or maybe self "policing" is a better option for all parties concerned. sports should be about the coaches and athletes, not the officials. whatever it takes to get there......lets get there and move on because we'd all rather spend our time talking about great plays and players and great games.