Nederland vs. Port Neches-Groves Game Thread/Nederland wins/Comments

[Guest speechless]

At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place.

What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily"

what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot?

with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long

[Guest Two-Dogs...]

[quote name="speechless" post="960762" timestamp="1296767582"]
At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place.

What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily"

what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot?

with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long
[/quote]

good post!

[DogOne]

[quote name="Two-Dogs..." post="960778" timestamp="1296770910"]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=79456.msg960762#msg960762 date=1296767582]
At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place.

What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily"

what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot?

with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long
[/quote]

good post!
[/quote]

Why did Nederland having the ball with 90 seconds left in a tied game mean PN-G was in a bind?  A lot can happen in 90 seconds.  Didn't Ozen make up a five point deficit against Vidor in the last 50 seconds the other night? 

[Guest speechless]

a game tied at 46 with a minute left doesnt scream "offensive juggernaut" so my guess is scoring was coming at a premium that night and so it was not worth the risk of coming out and getting out of a defense that had caused problems and risk going down two points....that is what being on defense has to do with it.....

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="speechless" post="960762" timestamp="1296767582"]
At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place.

What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily"

what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot?

with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long
[/quote]From the video, it was very evident what they wanted to do.  If I was coaching, I would have thought that if there is more than 30-45 seconds left on the clock (enough for several possessions), then I'd go for it.  I've laid out the percentages - rough as they are - and I still think that the coaches' job is to maximize his odds of winning.  Letting Nederland have that last shot did not help their case whatsoever.

Just my opinion, though.  ;)

[Guest speechless]

so you'd be willing to put your players at a disadvantage by asking them to do something that they are not very good at and does not maximize their abilities for the sake of extra possessions?

your black and white percentages sound all good in theory but, in the end you have to put your kids in a position that is most likely for them to be successful and png attempting to guard nederland in a spread set is not a position to be successful

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="speechless" post="960870" timestamp="1296785941"]
so you'd be willing to put your players at a disadvantage by asking them to do something that they are not very good at and does not maximize their abilities for the sake of extra possessions?

your black and white percentages sound all good in theory but, in the end you have to put your kids in a position that is most likely for them to be successful and png attempting to guard nederland in a spread set is not a position to be successful
[/quote]I don't like the odds of just letting them have the last shot, either.  So my "black and white percentages", in my opinion, put my kids in a position that is most likely for them to be successful.  It's obviously not an ideal situation that PNG is in, but I feel that it is the lesser of two evils.

You can disagree all you want and I'll still respect your opinion.  Every coach has their own style, and none of them have a monopoly on having the only correct style.  That's what makes team sports so exciting.

But in PNG's case, they were up against a better team.  To beat a better team, you've got to be willing to take some chances.  It's just not the move I would have made.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="960857" timestamp="1296785184"]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=79456.msg960762#msg960762 date=1296767582]
At that point in the game you are not really even thinking about OT or not.  This isn't football where there is lots of down time in between plays for extra coaching and thought to take place.

What you are thinking is "they've got the ball with 1 minute to go and they are in spread trying to get us to come out of the defense that has hurt them the entire game.....they want us to get into something that they can exploit easily"

what no one has even said is that even if png came out who is to say that nederland doesn't

play keep away for the rest of the time and still hold for the last shot?

with those thoughts you are not concerned about OT or whatever....they are on offense, you are on defense and all you are thinking is they have us in a bind right now so my best chance is to sit back and make them come to us and beat the defense that has given them trouble all game long
[/quote]From the video, it was very evident what they wanted to do.  If I was coaching, I
would have thought that if there is more than 30-45 seconds left on the clock (enough for several possessions), then I'd go for it.  I've laid out the percentages - rough as they are - and I still think that the coaches' job is to maximize his odds of winning.  Letting Nederland have that last shot did not help their case whatsoever.

Just my opinion, though.  ;)
[/quote]

It's one I think many (logical) people would agree on. Good post!

[baddog]

How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right.

On to Central.

[Guest speechless]

great post baddog

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="baddog" post="961322" timestamp="1296915289"]
How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right.

On to Central.
[/quote]What is a "Low percentage", 30%?  You're STILL giving yourself only a 35% chance of winning.  I don't like those odds when I know I have 90 seconds left in the game against a better team.

[baddog]

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="961442" timestamp="1296932644"]
[quote author=baddog link=topic=79456.msg961322#msg961322 date=1296915289]
How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right.

On to Central.
[/quote]What is a "Low percentage", 30%?  You're STILL giving yourself only a 35% chance of winning.  I don't like those odds when I know I have 90 seconds left in the game against a better team.
[/quote]

Dang right, the low percentage shot missed, the one that was coached (defense) to force. The high percentage put back (probably 99%) was the one you can never count on happening. You say to force the play. What, force a miss? That happened. Should Nederland score and Png gets the ball back, there are no guarantees that they score. Why can't you see that?

Pngs coach should not shoulder any blame for that last shot. The game was lost when Nederland got the momentum to catch up after playing behind the whole game. Should have never come down to that last shot.

My last post on this subject.

[FanintheStands]

[quote name="baddog" post="961450" timestamp="1296934735"]
Dang right, the low percentage shot missed, the one that was coached (defense) to force. The high percentage put back (probably 99%) was the one you can never count on happening. You say to force the play. What, force a miss? That happened. Should Nederland score and Png gets the ball back, there are no guarantees that they score. Why can't you see that?[/quote]My friend, just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean "I can't see that".  It simply means I disagree.  Why can't you see that?  ;)

[quote author=baddog link=topic=79456.msg961450#msg961450 date=1296934735]Pngs coach should not shoulder any blame for that last shot. The game was lost when Nederland got the momentum to catch up after playing behind the whole game. Should have never come down to that last shot.

My last post on this subject.[/quote]Where have I said "PNG coach lost the game for them"?  I didn't.  I've stated numerous times on this thread that the coach did an admirable job in keeping his team in the game against a much better Nederland bunch.  Now, nobody bats 1000 in baseball and no basketball coach makes the right decision every time.  [b]I think[/b] that the PNG coach limited his team's chances of winning, and I've stated that [b]this is my opinion[/b] and why I believe it.  You've chosen to disagree. 

So be it.




[/quote]

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="baddog" post="961322" timestamp="1296915289"]
How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right.

On to Central.
[/quote]I'm with ou on that one..

[BMTSoulja1]

[quote name="baddog" post="961450" timestamp="1296934735"]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79456.msg961442#msg961442 date=1296932644]
[quote author=baddog link=topic=79456.msg961322#msg961322 date=1296915289]
How can anybody argue the coaches call? Nederlands last shot missed. The put back (that no coach can foresee), gave us the win. Pngs coach got what he was after.....Nederland shooting from a distance with a low percentage shot. He's not even my coach and I think he did right.

On to Central.
[/quote]What is a "Low percentage", 30%?  You're STILL giving yourself only a 35% chance of winning.  I don't like those odds when I know I have 90 seconds left in the game against a better team.
[/quote]

Dang right, the low percentage shot missed, the one that was coached (defense) to force. The high percentage put back (probably 99%) was the one you can never count on happening. You say to force the play. What, force a miss? That happened. Should Nederland score and Png gets the ball back, there are no guarantees that they score. Why can't you see that?

Pngs coach should not shoulder any blame for that last shot. The game was lost when Nederland got the momentum to catch up after playing behind the whole game. Should have never come down to that last shot.

My last post on this subject.




[/quote]Somebody should feel bad letting a Football guy shed some EXELLENT basketball knowlege...