Lamar to the WAC- April 2011

[Guest Cards R Us]

You're making a large leap in assuming that the athletic fee will get approved.  Lamar's current athletic fee is roughly $9 per credit hour.  With enrollment numbers staying roughly the same as they are now, that fee would have to increase to roughly $18 per credit hour to meet the "$2-3 million" you're saying will appear in the budget.  Most students would be paying between $230 and $250 per semester in athletics fees, which is considerably more than the $100-$125 they're now paying.  And both of those numbers are FAR greater than the $40-50 they were paying just a couple years ago.

The last time fees were increased, they rose sharply to the $9 they're at now.  And that was with 75% student approval.  To more than DOUBLE the fees, there would have to be a LOT of support.

[coachacola]

The athletic fee was discussed at the TSUS regents meetings last week but I don't think anyone has said specifically what they talked about.  Other fees are going up this fall so I think it would be a hard sell to raise the athletic fee again.  I do know that at Texas State and possibly UTSA they are raising their athletic fee to $20 per semester hour.

[bigred360]

First off this is the same arguement, the football fee faced when it was voted on back in Jan. 2008. "This will raise how much we are paying now." or "The football program was killed for a reason back in 1989 and there will be no support and the program will just be eliminated again."

Then the football fee passed with 79% of the vote. That isn't just barely passing. It is more like a landslide. The increase was for $8.75 for fall and spring semesters and $4.50 for summer sessions.

http://www.lamar.edu/newsevents/articles/221_6082.htm

If the athletic fee is for as much as $6 per credit hr based on this spring enrollment with credit hrs at 139,636 that would be an additional $837,816 for just this semester.

For a student with 12 hrs, that would be an additional $72 he/she would pay.

Now, you know the vast majority of the time the fall semesters have the highest numbers of students that is why they have a record for spring enrollment and fall enrollment.

However, just for the sake of debate I'll use the same 139,636 for the fall. That is another $837,816 if the athletic fee was as much as $6 per credit hr.

Just the spring and fall added together that is roughly $1.7 million and that isn't including two summer sessions.

I can't find any figures for summer sessions but I'm confident an additional $800,000 could be added to make the net for the whole year roughly $2.5 million.

Now, I'm not sure if the students will have to vote on this athletic fee or not. I'm sure you or someone else would know. However, it only needs 51% to pass but I think before they would apply it Dr. Simmons would want the athletic fee to pass at around 60%.

So in summary, the total football and athletic fees could be as little as $14.75 per credit hr each spring and fall semester. I can't give you numbers on the summer sessions because I have no credit hrs to use.

Texas State and UTSA students are paying about $20 per credit hr for athletic fees. Go figure.

[Guest Cards R Us]

Your confidence that $2.5 million could be generated by a $6 fee increase is FAR off from the truth. The CURRENT total generated from student fees is roughly $2.6 million and that's with the number at $8.75.  I don't know where your phantom math is coming from, but that doesn't add up in my books.

Also, TXST students pay a $14 per credit hour fee...NOT the $20 you suggested earlier: http://catsweb.txstate.edu/catsweb/sa/HBFLTRESU_SPRING.HTM

[bigred360]

Dude the fees in the summer are only $4.50 and yes, although I'm not great at math I can use a calculator and add numbers.

No, I don't want Lamar students to pay $20 per credit hr. I was just showing what the competition at schools currently in the SLC about to jump to the WAC are doing with student fees.  

Those are current numbers you are using with that link. I'm pretty sure they are jumping to $20 per credit hr.

[Guest Cards R Us]

360, you're partially correct about TXST.  Currently they're paying $14 but they're increasing by $2 every year so that in 2013/14 they'll be paying $20 per hour (up from $10/hr in 2008).  That being said, the same percentage increase would have to occur at Lamar, from $8.75 to roughly $18/hr just to generate another $2.6 million.  The numbers don't lie, $6 is not enough.  Lamar students taking a normal (12-15 hour) course load would see tuition costs rise roughly $100-125 per semester.

[coachacola]

I saw on the Lamar website that the current athletic budget (for 2010-2011), which includes football, is about $11.5 million.  If they do join the WAC then they'll probably need to figure out a way to get that up to at least $15 million.  Not sure how they can do that without raising student fees.

[bigred360]

[quote name="Cards R Us" post="967266" timestamp="1297886854"]
360, you're partially correct about TXST.  Currently they're paying $14 but they're increasing by $2 every year so that in 2013/14 they'll be paying $20 per hour (up from $10/hr in 2008).  That being said, the same percentage increase would have to occur at Lamar, from $8.75 to roughly $18/hr just to generate another $2.6 million.  The numbers don't lie, $6 is not enough.  Lamar students taking a normal (12-15 hour) course load would see tuition costs rise roughly $100-125 per semester.

[/quote]

Cards, your numbers aren't correct if enrollment keeps going up at Lamar. Last fall we set a record for enrollment and this semester we set one for credit hrs. I can't tell you why our football fee has only generated $2.6 million with our credit hrs where they are.

However, I can add credit hrs this spring which are 139,636 x 6 = 837816. Then double it for a rough estament for the fall 139,636 x 6 = 837816 x 2 =  1675632. Now, I've look at the Lamar website and can't find anything about credit hrs for summer sessions. However, I feel safe to say it is at least half the fall and spring semesters. So, I'll use 69818 x 6 = 418908. Then there are two summer sessions so 418908 x 2 = 837816. Add all the totals and it is $2,513,448 for the year.

Please show me where the error is in my addition?

[NorthoftheBorder]

In order for LU to be successful at FBS IMHO, they can't rely on student fees as the main revenue stream to fund it.  A much larger amount will have to come from the Lamar community ie...Alumni, donors, corporate sponsors, friends of the University, local community support etc.  Let's hope that Dr. Simmons/Tubbs/Tidwell are working on that and/or have it in place.  Need to have a 5 year committment for the money necessary to give it a chance to be successful.  All FBS programs have a number of "fat cat" supporters who make it happen.

[Guest Cards R Us]

360, your Fall/Spring numbers are solid I agree.  Your summer numbers are grossly inflated.  Check the Lamar website for this information.  Staffing/course offerings in the summer are much much smaller, and students are only able to take a maximum of 4 courses per summer (2 per session).  Even if we calculate using your enrollment numbers (which are still grossly inflated), the new calc looks like this:

139,636/2 = 69818 hours (this would mean roughly HALF of ALL students taking a FULL summer courseload...which is highly unlikely, and not actually possible with current offerings).  69818 multiplied by $4.5 (the current summer student fee) = 314,181

If you add this HIGHLY inflated number to the relatively accurate $1.675 million you counted for Fall and Spring, it totals roughly $1.98 million.  That's an outside figure, probably high by about $200,000.

I agree with NorthoftheBorder and coachcola.  The money from increased student fees will only go so far.  The amount of ANNUAL donations given to the department must increase significantly.  One time donations can't help the department compete in the WAC.  Money must be available every year.  15 million won't be reached by a student fee increase, at least not in the near future.

[bigred360]

Cards, sorry I stated I didn't have summer session information. But, if you are going to use my grossly inflated numbers then stay with the $6 as a possible athletic fee.

BTW, you act like only in the summer do students go part-time. Of the 13,930 this semester, there are several hundred that are part-time students.

Now, heck I'll go with a 1/2 of the current credit hrs for the whole summer, both sessions. That would be 69818 x 6 = 418908. Then add it to the Fall/Spring numbers we can agree on which was $1.675 million or something pretty close. 1675000 + 418908 = $2,093,908

Now, I don't think I clearly stated my case about the athletic fee. It would fund all the sports and athletic administrators except football. There are 14 people just in the AD department. If we go to a FBS conference they all especially Coach Tidwell will get a raise. Add in media relations, video coordinator, ticket manager, athletic trainers, sports performance and we have yet to get to our first sport.

Now, add MBB/WBB, baseball and all the non-revenue producting sports and their budgets. Travel alone in the WAC will drive up the budgets. Then the coaching staffs need to have competitive salaries and the recruiting budgets just went up.

Then the facilites across the board need an upgrade and we have to add two female sports and facilities for them.

You are talking a lot of money and the student athletic fee will be just a drop in the bucket.

I agree with you, North and coach about funding football. First there is a jump from 63 scholarships to 85. Then at the FBS level you have one head coach, 9 assistants and 2 grad assistants. The stength and conditioning coaches are not included in these numbers. All their salaries will be higher than they are now. The stadium will need to be renovated again to be competitive with other FBS schools especially in the conference Lamar is participating in. I can go on and on about this subject.

If Lamar wants to go FBS then we need more than student fees to fund it. Like yall stated we'll need annual donations in the millions from alumni, friends of the university, donation and advertizing from corporations and Lamar has to put a winning product on the field for more suites, several thousand season ticket holders, growth in the cardinal club membership and so on.

The total athletic and football budget has to be at least $15 million.

[AJ25]

[b]WAC to do list[/b]

Add any that I miss

1) Football up to 85 scholarships
2) A couple more full time FB coaches w/ competitive WAC salaries
3) New Men's BB coaching staff w/ competitive WAC salaries
4) Baseball coaches salaries bumped up to WAC level
5) Addition of 2 women's sports teams and new facilities for those sports
6) Improvements/Expansion to P.U.S
7) Improvements to Beck
8 ) Improvements/New scoreboard in Montagne
9) Many more [b]big[/b] donors to help fund the move
10) Increased student athletic fee
11) Improved campus/academic buildings.. Cant just improve athletic facilities and not the academic facilities as well
12) New parking lots for increasing student body
13) More dorm rooms for demanded on campus students (IMO should be first time freshman. Also, 35 credit hours should have to be achieved while living on campus. This will increase incoming money to LU.)
14) And more money donated.

What have I missed?

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="AJ25" post="967500" timestamp="1297911955"]
[b]WAC to do list[/b]

Add any that I miss

1) Football up to 85 scholarships
2) A couple more full time FB coaches w/ competitive WAC salaries
3) New Men's BB coaching staff w/ competitive WAC salaries
4) Baseball coaches salaries bumped up to WAC level
5) Addition of 2 women's sports teams and new facilities for those sports
6) Improvements/Expansion to P.U.S
7) Improvements to Beck
8 ) Improvements/New scoreboard in Montagne
9) Many more [b]big[/b] donors to help fund the move
10) Increased student athletic fee
11) Improved campus/academic buildings.. Cant just improve athletic facilities and not the academic facilities as well
12) New parking lots for increasing student body
13) More dorm rooms for demanded on campus students (IMO should be first time freshman. Also, 35 credit hours should have to be achieved while living on campus. This will increase incoming money to LU.)
14) And more money donated.

What have I missed?
[/quote]



You forgot one very important thing:


Get an invite. ;D

[AJ25]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="967501" timestamp="1297912172"]
[quote author=AJ25 link=topic=79479.msg967500#msg967500 date=1297911955]
[b]WAC to do list[/b]

Add any that I miss

1) Football up to 85 scholarships
2) A couple more full time FB coaches w/ competitive WAC salaries
3) New Men's BB coaching staff w/ competitive WAC salaries
4) Baseball coaches salaries bumped up to WAC level
5) Addition of 2 women's sports teams and new facilities for those sports
6) Improvements/Expansion to P.U.S
7) Improvements to Beck
8 ) Improvements/New scoreboard in Montagne
9) Many more [b]big[/b] donors to help fund the move
10) Increased student athletic fee
11) Improved campus/academic buildings.. Cant just improve athletic facilities and not the academic facilities as well
12) New parking lots for increasing student body
13) More dorm rooms for demanded on campus students (IMO should be first time freshman. Also, 35 credit hours should have to be achieved while living on campus. This will increase incoming money to LU.)
14) And more money donated.

What have I missed?
[/quote]



You forgot one very important thing:


Get an invite. ;D
[/quote]

I should've said assuming that happens. lol

[UNLV]

The WAC sponsor women's softball and swimming. Those should be the 2 new sports. LU already has the swimming facilities and should rent the Butch for hosting.

[AJ25]

[quote name="UNLV" post="967521" timestamp="1297913166"]
The WAC sponsor women's softball and swimming. Those should be the 2 new sports. LU already has the swimming facilities and should rent the Butch for hosting.
[/quote]

Is there any facilities in Beaumont that are good enough to host a D1 Softball program? It's not irregular to have an off-campus athletic facility. SFA has their ball programs fields well off campus in a city park.. Both facilities are plenty nice.

[UNLV]

[quote name="AJ25" post="967526" timestamp="1297913483"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=79479.msg967521#msg967521 date=1297913166]
The WAC sponsor women's softball and swimming. Those should be the 2 new sports. LU already has the swimming facilities and should rent the Butch for hosting.
[/quote]

Is there any facilities in Beaumont that are good enough to host a D1 Softball program? It's not irregular to have an off-campus athletic facility. SFA has their ball programs fields well off campus in a city park.. Both facilities are plenty nice.
[/quote]Ford is good enough, but Lamar can built it's own field.

Lamar has a nice swimming facilities for training, but I would be embarrassed if Lamar tried to host a meet there. Rent the Butch for meets.

[AJ25]

[quote name="UNLV" post="967534" timestamp="1297913889"]
[quote author=AJ25 link=topic=79479.msg967526#msg967526 date=1297913483]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=79479.msg967521#msg967521 date=1297913166]
The WAC sponsor women's softball and swimming. Those should be the 2 new sports. LU already has the swimming facilities and should rent the Butch for hosting.
[/quote]

Is there any facilities in Beaumont that are good enough to host a D1 Softball program? It's not irregular to have an off-campus athletic facility. SFA has their ball programs fields well off campus in a city park.. Both facilities are plenty nice.
[/quote]Ford is good enough, but Lamar can built it's own field.

Lamar has a nice swimming facilities for training, but I would be embarrassed if Lamar tried to host a meet there. Rent the Butch for meets.

[/quote]

If they announce the move in April like some people "in the know" are expecting, they could immediately hire a SB coach and get him recruiting.. While they start building the field. They could play their first season 2 years from now at Ford until their facility is complete. Isn't there a rule where men's and women's facilities in "same sports," (baseball/softball) that the facilities have to be "equal" to each other? Meaning you couldn't have a top notch baseball facility like the Beck and build an up to par or sub-par softball stadium.

[coachacola]

The field house for softball is already built as part of the soccer field house.  Lamar has plans to spend $1.2 million on the softball stadium in a few years so I'm guessing they are already trying to find the funding for that.  Any word on where $3+ million for Vincent-Beck is coming from and will they start on the renovations this year?

[becktobigs]

When Lamar announces softball, don't jump to any conclusions about the WAC.  Softball has been in the plans for a long time because of Title IX.

[bigred360]

Just my opinion but in the future Lamar should build a natatorium on the McDonald Gym side of the Rec Center and move Ty Terrell track to where the soccer stadium is. They could built a really nice facility for both sports. The track should have lights so students and athletes can use it at night.

I personally don't like the way the stands are at the present location.

Look at UT, they have one complex for both sports (soccer and track)

http://www.texassports.com/facilities/myers-stadium.html

Plus, they could add parking for students near academic buildings.

[coachacola]

Over at BobcatReport.com (another Texas State sports forum), the Site Admin is reporting that a WAC official said that the conference is looking to add Lamar, Seattle and Utah Valley State.  That would be 8 for football, 11 for basketball.  I think the ultimate goal is 9/12.  He also said Montana wants to join the WAC but they are tied to Montana State which does not want to go.

http://bobcatreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=542&sid=03cb4d6b99898d3f63b6421ea4b83e58

[UNLV]

I don't see the need to add non-football schools. The WAC needs to add LU for the needed 8 then wait for the next rounds.

[Jack0]

[quote name="coachacola" post="969367" timestamp="1298253412"]
Over at BobcatReport.com (another Texas State sports forum), the Site Admin is reporting that a WAC official said that the conference is looking to add Lamar, Seattle and Utah Valley State.  That would be 8 for football, 11 for basketball.  I think the ultimate goal is 9/12.  He also said Montana wants to join the WAC but they are tied to Montana State which does not want to go.

http://bobcatreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=542&sid=03cb4d6b99898d3f63b6421ea4b83e58
[/quote]

Hey guys -

I'm the site admin at BR.  I've known about your candidacy since the Dallas meetings.  Your reps met Benson informally and started a dialogue very quietly.  My source had never heard of your school and walked away impressed.  They like how Lamar handles their business and the potential of the Triangle as a DMA viewing area and the fertile recruiting ground us Texans know of already.

What I have been told is that your school was very cautious and really thought this through, and an invite is imminent.  The administration didn't want people making decisions for them outside the program via the media.  The other big thing I have heard is that maybe you will not accept immediately if you don't feel you are ready.

You can come BS with us at bobcatreport.com about it and I promise to tell you guys if I hear anything at your site.

Thanks,

Jack

[bigred360]

Jack, thanks for the information as it makes a lot of sense with a few people who frequent this forum having knowledge of the possible move to the WAC.

BTW, I posted that Billy Tubbs was in Dallas at the time of the WAC meetings.