ChampionEagles Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 [quote name="hitman009" post="964133" timestamp="1297365325"][quote author=jacobmccandles link=topic=80066.msg964108#msg964108 date=1297360830]Hitman, don't compare college graduates with 30 years experience to some people that did not even graduate high school and are working for minimum wage. Find out what the income is for college graduates with 10+ years experience in the area(do not include teachers).[/quote]why not compare?? we are talking about the community that pays for the teachers....but if you want statistics here they are... this will explain why there is cut backs in the Newton area....Newton has experienced a 10% drop of population... why have more teachers if you don't have the students...Newton has a 12% unemployment rate.. hard to raise money with that.... people are not going to buy property with no money..68% of people own homes in Newton and 21% make less than 10,000 a year..It is hard to compare college graduates with 10+ years of experience when only 9% of people who graduate from Newton get bachelors degrees... compared to 23% state average... And I bet most of the Newton's 9% college graduates have left the area to find better jobs... not many high paying jobs in Newton... newton's population only has 47% with HIGH SCHOOL DEGREES...I can also bet that most of the college degrees that live in Newton are teachers...either way a teacher, in newton, is a high paying job as compared to the community average salary..[/quote]All of these numbers look good except they are totally wrong for budget numbers except number of students. The largest part of the school budget comes from the state, not local taxes or any of these other statistics you have quoted. ADA money. And if I follow your logic, I'm one of the ignorant, penniless, barefoot fools that live here. Come on down and I'll show you how to play "deliverence" on my banjo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman009 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 [quote name="ChampionEagles" post="964182" timestamp="1297370511"][quote author=hitman009 link=topic=80066.msg964133#msg964133 date=1297365325][quote author=jacobmccandles link=topic=80066.msg964108#msg964108 date=1297360830]Hitman, don't compare college graduates with 30 years experience to some people that did not even graduate high school and are working for minimum wage. Find out what the income is for college graduates with 10+ years experience in the area(do not include teachers).[/quote]why not compare?? we are talking about the community that pays for the teachers....but if you want statistics here they are... this will explain why there is cut backs in the Newton area....Newton has experienced a 10% drop of population... why have more teachers if you don't have the students...Newton has a 12% unemployment rate.. hard to raise money with that.... people are not going to buy property with no money..68% of people own homes in Newton and 21% make less than 10,000 a year..It is hard to compare college graduates with 10+ years of experience when only 9% of people who graduate from Newton get bachelors degrees... compared to 23% state average... And I bet most of the Newton's 9% college graduates have left the area to find better jobs... not many high paying jobs in Newton... newton's population only has 47% with HIGH SCHOOL DEGREES...I can also bet that most of the college degrees that live in Newton are teachers...either way a teacher, in newton, is a high paying job as compared to the community average salary..[/quote]All of these numbers look good except they are totally wrong for budget numbers except number of students. The largest part of the school budget comes from the state, not local taxes or any of these other statistics you have quoted. ADA money. And if I follow your logic, I'm one of the ignorant, penniless, barefoot fools that live here. Come on down and I'll show you how to play "deliverence" on my banjo.[/quote]i believe i said MOST not ALL... the satitics are just facts...just because you fall on the other side of these statistics does not mean it is not happening in the community... and just beacuse someone did not graduate from college does not make them a "redneck". I never put down Newton...or yourself.. just gave facts why 2 long time coaches were let go....and yes a large number of education money does come from the state but countys also collect a property tax that rolls in to funding for education at your local schools.. that is why bigger citys pay teachers higher salarys... more propery owners.... as for you playing a banjo IDK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRUSHCOACH Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 [quote name="kville68" post="963944" timestamp="1297342621"]Take emotion out of this and the only part that makes no sense is the fact that these employees are 1. Retired from the education system and recieving a pension.2. Working for the same education system and recieving a paycheck.They and many others are double dipping the system. It should not be possible. If they want to come out of retirement and coach or teach because they are good at it, they enjoy it and are needed that would be fantastic. It is nothing personal with these two fine coaches it just does not make good financial sense.[/quote] This is BS ! Teachers and Coaches are some of the lowest paid people in the State, and they are the ones teaching our Children ! They deserve allot more than what they are getting. This is just one way that they can get the money they should have been getting all along. Coaches spend countless hours at the school for next to nothing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kville Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="CRUSHCOACH" post="964208" timestamp="1297372650"][quote author=kville68 link=topic=80066.msg963944#msg963944 date=1297342621]Take emotion out of this and the only part that makes no sense is the fact that these employees are 1. Retired from the education system and recieving a pension.2. Working for the same education system and recieving a paycheck.They and many others are double dipping the system. It should not be possible. If they want to come out of retirement and coach or teach because they are good at it, they enjoy it and are needed that would be fantastic. It is nothing personal with these two fine coaches it just does not make good financial sense.[/quote] This is BS ! Teachers and Coaches are some of the lowest paid people in the State, and they are the ones teaching our Children ! They deserve allot more than what they are getting. This is just one way that they can get the money they should have been getting all along. Coaches spend countless hours at the school for next to nothing ![/quote]Just because these are "good men" and are well liked does not mean they or anyone else should be able to quit their job so that they can then get rehired in order to get a 75% raise. No one can argue that teachers do not make enough money. But no one goes into teaching to make big bucks. No one tricked them into thinking they were ever going to make any more than they do. Teaching is a calling and most make huge sacrafices. Sucsessfull coaches do very well moving up to bigger schools with bigger expectations an bigger checks. I respect any coach who stays with a small school KNOWING thet they will hit that glass ceiling. Its an admirable choice and one that they should be proud of. The fact is the districts can not afford this practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcoat Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 This is a ridiculous thread. First off how on earth can you compare 2 legends of coaching who have given and given to a community time and again to a greenhorn fresh out of college who doesnt know squat. If stats prove correct 40% of these greenhorns will be out of coaching and into another profession within 3 years and over 50% out of the profession within 5 years. If possibly the greatest high school coach in Texas were still alive would he to fall victim to this? There are so many ways to save a district money. Workshops, fat central offices, federal programs, breakfast and lunch programs, educating illegals ... We should not be cutting staff. We definately should not be cutting some of our best staff based on age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullets13 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="kville68" post="964338" timestamp="1297385477"][quote author=CRUSHCOACH link=topic=80066.msg964208#msg964208 date=1297372650][quote author=kville68 link=topic=80066.msg963944#msg963944 date=1297342621]Take emotion out of this and the only part that makes no sense is the fact that these employees are 1. Retired from the education system and recieving a pension.2. Working for the same education system and recieving a paycheck.They and many others are double dipping the system. It should not be possible. If they want to come out of retirement and coach or teach because they are good at it, they enjoy it and are needed that would be fantastic. It is nothing personal with these two fine coaches it just does not make good financial sense.[/quote] This is BS ! Teachers and Coaches are some of the lowest paid people in the State, and they are the ones teaching our Children ! They deserve allot more than what they are getting. This is just one way that they can get the money they should have been getting all along. Coaches spend countless hours at the school for next to nothing ![/quote]Just because these are "good men" and are well liked does not mean they or anyone else should be able to quit their job so that they can then get rehired in order to get a 75% raise. No one can argue that teachers do not make enough money. But no one goes into teaching to make big bucks. No one tricked them into thinking they were ever going to make any more than they do. Teaching is a calling and most make huge sacrafices. Sucsessfull coaches do very well moving up to bigger schools with bigger expectations an bigger checks. I respect any coach who stays with a small school KNOWING thet they will hit that glass ceiling. Its an admirable choice and one that they should be proud of. The fact is the districts can not afford this practice.[/quote]this hits it on the head. not a popular post, but a great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcoat Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Why not ask WT what is best for his program, best for his athletes and best for the community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullets13 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="jeffcoat" post="964471" timestamp="1297433742"]Why not ask WT what is best for his program, best for his athletes and best for the community? [/quote]these guys have been allowed to make a salary while already receiving their retirement. they've been done quite a service by this district. if the district can longer provide that service due to financial constraints, nobody should be misled into thinking they're being mistreated. as for what's best for all of the program, athletes, or community, the #1 question that's going to be asked is what's best for the district. even though it may be to some fans, football is not the #1 priority in any school district. maybe back in the day, but not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman009 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="jeffcoat" post="964465" timestamp="1297433084"] This is a ridiculous thread. First off how on earth can you compare 2 legends of coaching who have given and given to a community time and again to a greenhorn fresh out of college who doesnt know squat. If stats prove correct 40% of these greenhorns will be out of coaching and into another profession within 3 years and over 50% out of the profession within 5 years. If possibly the greatest high school coach in Texas were still alive would he to fall victim to this? There are so many ways to save a district money. Workshops, fat central offices, federal programs, breakfast and lunch programs, educating illegals ... We should not be cutting staff. We definately should not be cutting some of our best staff based on age. [/quote]Even the great “legendary†coach had to start somewhere. I have nothing against these coaches. But when the state is 28 billion behind… Cuts have to be made.. and cutting teachers that have already retired is one way to do it… WT will just have to train who he gets… does not mean it will be someone right out of college….heck our school district near Houston will lose 3.5-5.2 million alone..As for cutting breakfast and lunch for the kids…. That is crazy… some of these kids only meals are at school…and work shops are made to educate the teachers on new ways to educate students... if teachers dont trying to get better then how can they expect the students to... And educating illegals… that would mean more cuts for teachers…I agree some districts are not spending their money wisely… but they are just dealing with what they have to work with... remember we vote for school board members who then vote on personal… (Superintendants) which make spending decisions… if you don’t like what is happening in your school district, then run for office or vote on someone who will do the job the way you want it done..If anyone is to blame… it is us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To the House Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Maybe if the school districts where run like the automobile industry or Fannie Mae they could get a bail out. King Rick has been screwing the education system every year except when it is election year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcoat Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="hitman009" post="964510" timestamp="1297436870"][quote author=jeffcoat link=topic=80066.msg964465#msg964465 date=1297433084] This is a ridiculous thread. First off how on earth can you compare 2 legends of coaching who have given and given to a community time and again to a greenhorn fresh out of college who doesnt know squat. If stats prove correct 40% of these greenhorns will be out of coaching and into another profession within 3 years and over 50% out of the profession within 5 years. If possibly the greatest high school coach in Texas were still alive would he to fall victim to this? There are so many ways to save a district money. Workshops, fat central offices, federal programs, breakfast and lunch programs, educating illegals ... We should not be cutting staff. We definately should not be cutting some of our best staff based on age. [/quote]Even the great “legendary†coach had to start somewhere. I have nothing against these coaches. But when the state is 28 billion behind… Cuts have to be made.. and cutting teachers that have already retired is one way to do it… WT will just have to train who he gets… does not mean it will be someone right out of college….heck our school district near Houston will lose 3.5-5.2 million alone..As for cutting breakfast and lunch for the kids…. That is crazy… some of these kids only meals are at school…and work shops are made to educate the teachers on new ways to educate students... if teachers dont trying to get better then how can they expect the students to... And educating illegals… that would mean more cuts for teachers…I agree some districts are not spending their money wisely… but they are just dealing with what they have to work with... remember we vote for school board members who then vote on personal… (Superintendants) which make spending decisions… if you don’t like what is happening in your school district, then run for office or vote on someone who will do the job the way you want it done..If anyone is to blame… it is us..[/quote]Us giving illegal aliens a 'free' education cost the taxpayers billions each year. As for the breakfast & lunch programs thats bull, these kids would eat. We are the only nation in the world where the poorest people are the fattest people. What is also funny is that you act like these coaches are not still WORKING extremely hard for their paycheck. They are. So why not hire who is the most qualified and the best for a community? Leave the hiring to WT and see who he wants. What you will save in money by axing these coaches will cost you far far more down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayton Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name="jeffcoat" post="964582" timestamp="1297444049"]As for the breakfast & lunch programs thats bull, these kids would eat. [/quote]I'm not gonna beat a dead horse with the rest of your quote, but I think you are a little out of touch with this one. There are tons of reasons.... but some of these kids would be lucky to get a meal a day. There are tons of parents who work/abuse the system as is indicated by their kids clothes, cell phones, etc. But by cutting these programs you would hurt some kids that truly do need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman009 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 the "illegal aliens" you are talking about are not the kids.... that is the parents.... kids born in America are Americans even if their parents are illegal... as for meal credit... you are so off base... lots of single income households that are uneducated and working for min wage.. those kids need the meal program..as for the coaches.... for the 10th time i have never put them down... i know they are working hard... but they are getting 2 paychecks, and the district has to pay extra for hiring a retired teacher... when times call for cuts... I can see why they are being let go... many teachers who are getting 1 paycheck are getting caned around the state.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle65 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 all i am saying is these are two of the best coaches ever in the state and i am sure they have made an impact on the lives of the students they coached. also, that retirement is from money taken out of their checks throughout the years that they have paid. if they want to coach, i am sure many schools will be contacting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayhawk Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 [quote name="soonerbeintexas" post="964164" timestamp="1297368908"]I understand both sides of this issue as well. Folks, be prepared...this is not the exception any longer, it is becoming the rule. In an effort to tightnen up the purse strings, schools are taking some gut-wrenching, unpopular measures. It is unfortunate to say the least. Much wisdom is being lost in the process.Great coaches and teachers are being riffed without replacement, or being replaced by less costly employees. This is not just a Texas trend, but a national trend. We are in the midst of a deep recession (regardless of what governement mouthpieces tell you otherwise), and good folks are reaping what corrupt folks have sewn. What's happening here in our state is a microcosm of the larger, national picture.Saying that "trained", younger folks is a wonderful solution to the problem is so over-the-top offensive that it hardly merits a repsonse. However, to make a point, I will opine: Blanket statements suggesting that all older personnel educate by saying “just open you book to page 320 and read, test on Friday†shows lack of understanding on the issue. Many wonderful, teachers, coaches are much more than educators...they are MORE IMPORTANTLY mentors to some very troubled kids. It's hard to understand what a mentor is unless you've lived [i][b]for [/b] [/i] a time and [i][b]through[/b][/i] some times. I have respect for old and young alike, but when I need some wise councel, I go to the one who has the experience. Incidentally, wisdom may not come with age, but it most certainly comes with experience.If education" is the end-all, then by all means, let's fire every teacher and let the computer itself teach the children everything there is to learn. After all, isn't that the trend..."facilitater", "guide to the side", and other overused catch words and phrases coming from campuses near and far. Teaching is much more than disseminating information whether through a textbook or via the current technology, which changes faster than schools can afford to update it. We are in trouble in this business and many other government-run businesses as well. Raising taxes at this time will only crush consumer confidence and small business entrepeneurs alike. If a tax hike was fiscally savvy, then why did the Obama administration agree to do something it said it never would...extend the Bush-era tax cuts? Until we hold government officials accountable for ill-advidsed and out-of-control spending habits, and tighten up our belts at the same time, we may never see an America that looks like the one that our founding fathers and so many others like them have fought to preserve. Best regards to two fine people and all others like them. You will be missed by your students.[/quote]Good post ! If you would run for public office I would vote for you for sure !(your probably too honest to make the cut ) Unfortunately people have become comfortably numb and now will reap the benifits of a criminal two party system that commits economic treason only to be bailed out by pointing the finger at election time ( works everytime !)~ Meet the new boss same as the old boss ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EagleFan01 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 From what I was told my WT Johnston was that these two guys will return next season. But who knows for sure really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robinhood Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 There are other ways to cut cost without cutting teachers and coaches. IMHO a good place to [u]start[/u] is utilities. Don't turn on the stadium lights. Play all games, football, baseball, soccer in the day light hours. Play football on Saturdays. This might save one to two teaching jobs each year. But it will save jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsung Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name="Robinhood" post="966059" timestamp="1297725184"]There are other ways to cut cost without cutting teachers and coaches. IMHO a good place to [u]start[/u] is utilities. Don't turn on the stadium lights. Play all games, football, baseball, soccer in the day light hours. Play football on Saturdays. This might save one to two teaching jobs each year. But it will save jobs.[/quote]I like your thinking. Back in the day, sub-varsity football games were played on Saturday mornings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman009 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 i got one that will save every district in america...... go to 4 - 10hr days. this will save every district on elect, transportation, meal credit....... just think of the everyday costs.... BILLOINS SAVED!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1KatKiller Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I was told that there are several east texas school districts already doing that very thing for the reasons mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleeagle Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Decisions made by the school board are no win situations. Any way you go on making these cuts there will be people who don't agree with the results. I support the decisions made by the school board. I am sure that no one on the school board wanted to cut anyone. There is no good choice when making these type of decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChampionEagles Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name="purpleeagle" post="966476" timestamp="1297799686"]Decisions made by the school board are no win situations. Any way you go on making these cuts there will be people who don't agree with the results. I support the decisions made by the school board. I am sure that no one on the school board wanted to cut anyone. There is no good choice when making these type of decisions.[/quote]Yet the Super keeps her money and perks and don't even pay taxes to the district. Toledo Bend is not in the NISD tax area. Maybe she can recommend other cost saving tips for the board to rubber stamp also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman009 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 [quote name="ChampionEagles" post="966486" timestamp="1297802205"][quote author=purpleeagle link=topic=80066.msg966476#msg966476 date=1297799686]Decisions made by the school board are no win situations. Any way you go on making these cuts there will be people who don't agree with the results. I support the decisions made by the school board. I am sure that no one on the school board wanted to cut anyone. There is no good choice when making these type of decisions.[/quote]Yet the Super keeps her money and perks and don't even pay taxes to the district. Toledo Bend is not in the NISD tax area. Maybe she can recommend other cost saving tips for the board to rubber stamp also.[/quote]could be worse... Beaumont is making like 50 cuts in the district and Thomas (the highest paid sup in the state) gets a raise. Also in Crosby the sup announced cuts in personal as well, yet hires a 4th assistant super (one of his buddys from corciana)... while building another campus... no playground for that campus... they are using Wii's for physical education... some schools are cutting out Health Classes and Computer Classes... How stupid is that... what is the number one killer in America..heart Failure due to lack of exercise... and what is one area in which every kid needs.. computer class... some districts are dumb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Red Rocker Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Newton ISD has to cut people anyway so they can pay their three (yes 3) supts. A small 2A school with three supts. As Don King would say "only in America". :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjhawks Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote name="ChampionEagles" post="963994" timestamp="1297349365"][quote author=kville68 link=topic=80066.msg963944#msg963944 date=1297342621]Take emotion out of this and the only part that makes no sense is the fact that these employees are 1. Retired from the education system and recieving a pension.2. Working for the same education system and recieving a paycheck.They and many others are double dipping the system. It should not be possible. If they want to come out of retirement and coach or teach because they are good at it, they enjoy it and are needed that would be fantastic. It is nothing personal with these two fine coaches it just does not make good financial sense.[/quote]Double dipping? They paid into the retirement system over a lifetime of work and then took advantage of being a conscientious, hard working employee by reaping the benefits of their work and you call this double dipping. They do not receive state benefits like all other state employees nor do they receive state retirement like all other state employees. [b]A state highway department worker with out a college degree receives better insurance and better state retirement than teachers. [/b]As America and Texas together fall further behind the world in the quality of educating our children let's continue to blame teachers and cut money needed to educate the young. There's a great rally cry "LET'S BE MORE MEDIOCRE". [/quote]As they should... their job is a bit more dangerous...pay does not make you do your job any better... only helps you choose to do it in the first place... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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