Where is the Defense in High School Baseball?

[adminbaberuth]

I'm old school, watched 1000 high school games, most coached by Ronnie Anderson (W0) and Jay Stone (Ned/PNG).

When those guys put a team on the field, I don't care if the player was Div 1 or never played a summer league game, they made the routine.

Let's get to work.


 

[Burkeville_#70]

I know what u mean Burkeville scored 11 runs and still got beat due to the fact that we had more errors than runs

[bmtball]

Completely agree.  Silsbee/Kelly had a combined 10 errors yesterday.  Reading reports of numerous errors/passed balls in other games too.  After 6-7 games played, you would think the errors would be cut down by now.  Not enough infield/outfield practice across SE Texas?  I know there is plenty of talent in the area coaching and player wise.

[Burkeville_#70]

This was Burkevilles first and second games of the year

[WOSgrad]

I don't know if this is widespread, but I want to share a running conversation I overheard last night.  This happened while my wife and I were having dinner at a favorite neighborhood restaurant.  

A few minutes after we arrived, a player of a Katy area school and his family sat down a few tables away and launched into conversation, loud enough for the whole restaurant to hear, about the state of his baseball team.  The conversation went from signals to hitting stances to why certain players should be hitting in certain spots in the lineup.  In this nearly 1 1/2 oratory on the state of the team, not one sentence was devoted to fielding or defense.

These days, it is all about offense.  It is becoming akin to slow pitch where you just worry about the sticks and try to outscore the other team.

[Guest Ranger83]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="977423" timestamp="1299256098"]
I don't know if this is widespread, but I want to share a running conversation I overheard last night.  This happened while my wife and I were having dinner at a favorite neighborhood restaurant.  

A few minutes after we arrived, a player of a Katy area school and his family sat down a few tables away and launched into conversation, loud enough for the whole restaurant to hear, about the state of his baseball team.  The conversation went from signals to hitting stances to why certain players should be hitting in certain spots in the lineup.  In this nearly 1 1/2 oratory on the state of the team, not one sentence was devoted to fielding or defense.

These days, it is all about offense.  It is becoming akin to slow pitch where you just worry about the sticks and try to outscore the other team.
[/quote]

I totally agree. Most kids spend hours in the cages, I'll give them credit for that. It is the one aspect of the game where with a tee, you do not have to rely on anyone showing up to help you.

On the other hand, it is often hard to find someone to go with you to the field and take ground balls/ fly balls.

The MLB All-Star Game does not include a "Ground Ball Fielding" Derby. That type of media attention (or lack there of) is also part of the problem.

[DaBears]

Im thinking if the players would practice some defensive skills sometime between august and March that the defense would improve. Instead of them being in offseason football or playing 7 on 7, get out and take some ground balls and fly balls. What do these baseball guys do during Nov. Dec and Jan? Are they working on football skills or what? Get them on the field and practice some defense. What im trying to say is that most schools focus so much on football that they dont allow the baseball guys to get in the work that is desperately needed. Lastly, when is the last time you heard someone say that they are going to take a defensive lesson?

[SteelerCzy]

[quote name="bmtball" post="977419" timestamp="1299255586"]
Completely agree.  Silsbee/Kelly had a combined 10 errors yesterday.  Reading reports of numerous errors/passed balls in other games too.  After 6-7 games played, you would think the errors would be cut down by now.  Not enough infield/outfield practice across SE Texas?  I know there is plenty of talent in the area coaching and player wise.
[/quote]
Totally agree, 14 or 15 combined fielding errors btwn Deweyville/Kountze yesterday, both teams are more than capable of playing better hopefully the msg was sent last night that it needs to get better if they want to compete in District.

[adminbaberuth]

Today's fields look like Major League fields compared to some I've seen in the 70's,80's and 90's.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="DaBears" post="978150" timestamp="1299335585"]
Im thinking if the players would practice some defensive skills sometime between august and March that the defense would improve. Instead of them being in offseason football or playing 7 on 7, get out and take some ground balls and fly balls. What do these baseball guys do during Nov. Dec and Jan? Are they working on football skills or what? Get them on the field and practice some defense. What im trying to say is that most schools focus so much on football that they dont allow the baseball guys to get in the work that is desperately needed. Lastly, when is the last time you heard someone say that they are going to take a defensive lesson?
[/quote]

It seems like high school football is the cause of most ill's these days, huh? 

I don't know where that came from?  My understanding is that a lot players forego 7 on 7 to play select ball during the summer.  On top of that, a good number of players are opting not to play the football season to "concentrate on baseball" which I guess translates to "concetrate on hitting"  because from the early reports they certainly didn't devote any concentration to the fielding part!

[2throwrundown]

I think it comes down to passion for the game and wanting to "know" the entire craft.  Too many times i see guys wait for the ball instead of attacking and playing the routine ground ball rather than letting it play them.  Dont worry about making it look good just make the play.

[The Voice]

These guys have been in the cage all winter. I'm sure the fielding will come. It better, these new bats will keep the ball in the park.

[hitman009]

here is something I have noticed while coaching a lot of kids that might pertain to "D" play..... Almost all of them, even most infielders, never wear a cup.... I don't get that... Even if they get hit, they do not start wearing one....I always felt weard if I did not have one in.... 

[trueblue75]

[quote name="CrashDavis" post="978317" timestamp="1299358286"]
I think it comes down to passion for the game and wanting to "know" the entire craft.  Too many times i see guys wait for the ball instead of attacking and playing the routine ground ball rather than letting it play them.  Dont worry about making it look good just make the play.
[/quote]
A lot of coaches don't care if a kid has passion for a game and don't even realize that they've got some boys out there that know more about the mental game than the coaches do!  Some of these boys practice very hard in their off season time only to go backwards during the high school season. I know of several boys that go above and beyong during "off season" for the love and passion of the game. If only coaches would capitalize on THAT attitude I think we would see some state titles in the area!!

[dirtball]

  Great topic, I always felt when reading local papers about games, you typically receive only significant details about offensive execution and seldom defensive plays that alter the course of a game. Gets a little better at the collegiate level.

[GTBaseball47]

Back in my day..before computers, the internet, cell phone, ipod, ipad, ps-2, x-box, Wii, etc., I remember the thing to do after school or on the weekends was to go to C.O. Wilson and meet 8-10 other kids and play a pick up game of baseball. I also recall my dad taking a glove and bat and we would go for an after noon of playing catch, taking some grounders and practicing catching some deep fly balls. I did that with my dad until I graduated from high school. Never once did I think it was uncool. We need to spend as much time as we can with our kids in the backyard or at a park because one day they will wake up and think it is uncool to be out playing catch, etc. Kind of like the old song goes:

Son: Hey dad, want to go outside and play some catch?
Dad: Not now son, got bills to pay and work to do. We will do it again sometime soon.

8 years later

Dad: Hey son, want to go outside and play some ball?
Son: Not now dad. I need $40 and the car keys to take my girl to the movies. We will do it again soon..we will have a good time then.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="trueblue75" post="978544" timestamp="1299385118"]
[quote author=CrashDavis link=topic=81243.msg978317#msg978317 date=1299358286]
I think it comes down to passion for the game and wanting to "know" the entire craft.  Too many times i see guys wait for the ball instead of attacking and playing the routine ground ball rather than letting it play them.  Dont worry about making it look good just make the play.
[/quote]
A lot of coaches don't care if a kid has passion for a game and don't even realize that they've got some boys out there that know more about the mental game than the coaches do!  Some of these boys practice very hard in their off season time only to go backwards during the high school season. I know of several boys that go above and beyong during "off season" for the love and passion of the game. If only coaches would capitalize on THAT attitude I think we would see some state titles in the area!!
[/quote]

I am not ready to dismiss the coaches that we have at our local high schools.  I know they do have passion and to label them as basically the sole cause of this problem is ingenuous. 

However, while they do not happen to be the cause (at least in my eyes anyway), at least until the end of April it is their problem and they must craft solutions to the problems...I don't think the "they will pull out of this" mentality is applicable in many of the cases we have seen.  Perhaps a day or two (or more if necessary) where every bat is stowed except for the fungo bats of the coach and his assistants would remedy the problem.

Let's remember the point that admin made in his original post on this thread.  It is not merely the failure of many teams to play outstanding defense, it is the disturbing failure of many teams to play even sound fundamental defense, resulting in games where teams are committing an average of nearly an error an inning.

[PhatMack19]

[quote name="GTBaseball47" post="978547" timestamp="1299385654"]
Back in my day..before computers, the internet, cell phone, ipod, ipad, ps-2, x-box, Wii, etc., I remember the thing to do after school or on the weekends was to go to C.O. Wilson and meet 8-10 other kids and play a pick up game of baseball. I also recall my dad taking a glove and bat and we would go for an after noon of playing catch, taking some grounders and practicing catching some deep fly balls. I did that with my dad until I graduated from high school. Never once did I think it was uncool. We need to spend as much time as we can with our kids in the backyard or at a park because one day they will wake up and think it is uncool to be out playing catch, etc. Kind of like the old song goes:

Son: Hey dad, want to go outside and play some catch?
Dad: Not now son, got bills to pay and work to do. We will do it again sometime soon.

8 years later

Dad: Hey son, want to go outside and play some ball?
Son: Not now dad. I need $40 and the car keys to take my girl to the movies. We will do it again soon..we will have a good time then.
[/quote]

I agree 100%.  We weren't allowed in the house until the street lights came on, now you can't get the kids outside.  I can't remember the last time I have seen a pick up baseball game or kids playing catch in the neighborhood.

The only practice kids do is in the cage.  Defense just isn't as important anymore, unless your team plans on making the trip to Austin and playing for the state title.  ;)  Hitting will get you noticed, but pitching and defense win championships.

[IMHO11]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="978625" timestamp="1299423904"]
[quote author=trueblue75 link=topic=81243.msg978544#msg978544 date=1299385118]
[quote author=CrashDavis link=topic=81243.msg978317#msg978317 date=1299358286]
I think it comes down to passion for the game and wanting to "know" the entire craft.  Too many times i see guys wait for the ball instead of attacking and playing the routine ground ball rather than letting it play them.  Dont worry about making it look good just make the play.
[/quote]
A lot of coaches don't care if a kid has passion for a game and don't even realize that they've got some boys out there that know more about the mental game than the coaches do!  Some of these boys practice very hard in their off season time only to go backwards during the high school season. I know of several boys that go above and beyong during "off season" for the love and passion of the game. If only coaches would capitalize on THAT attitude I think we would see some state titles in the area!!
[/quote]

I am not ready to dismiss the coaches that we have at our local high schools.  I know they do have passion and to label them as basically the sole cause of this problem is ingenuous. 

However, while they do not happen to be the cause (at least in my eyes anyway), at least until the end of April it is their problem and they must craft solutions to the problems...I don't think the "they will pull out of this" mentality is applicable in many of the cases we have seen.  Perhaps a day or two (or more if necessary) where every bat is stowed except for the fungo bats of the coach and his assistants would remedy the problem.

Let's remember the point that admin made in his original post on this thread.  It is not merely the failure of many teams to play outstanding defense, it is the disturbing failure of many teams to play even sound fundamental defense, resulting in games where teams are committing an average of nearly an error an inning.


[/quote]
While I can agree with what WOS said I can also see where Trueblue75 might be headed with their thoughts in that we [i]could[/i] be watching better defense because there [b]are[/b] boys out there that are honing in on their craft?!  I totally agree with what Crash said...boys need to be running up on the ball and not waiting for it to come to them. Those split seconds can mean a run!! Be proactive instead of reactive and MAKE the play instead of waiting for a play to be made!!! Nice topic indeed!

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="GTBaseball47" post="978547" timestamp="1299385654"]
Back in my day..before computers, the internet, cell phone, ipod, ipad, ps-2, x-box, Wii, etc., I remember the thing to do after school or on the weekends was to go to C.O. Wilson and meet 8-10 other kids and play a pick up game of baseball. I also recall my dad taking a glove and bat and we would go for an after noon of playing catch, taking some grounders and practicing catching some deep fly balls. I did that with my dad until I graduated from high school. Never once did I think it was uncool. We need to spend as much time as we can with our kids in the backyard or at a park because one day they will wake up and think it is uncool to be out playing catch, etc. Kind of like the old song goes:

Son: Hey dad, want to go outside and play some catch?
Dad: Not now son, got bills to pay and work to do. We will do it again sometime soon.

8 years later

Dad: Hey son, want to go outside and play some ball?
Son: Not now dad. I need $40 and the car keys to take my girl to the movies. We will do it again soon..we will have a good time then.
[/quote]

I remember those days well.  Because dad and I did play catch in the back yard and part of that was fielding ground balls, shagging fly balls and having a quick and accurate throw after you make the catch.  

[trueblue75]

[quote name="PhatMack19" post="978638" timestamp="1299425363"]
[quote author=GTBaseball47 link=topic=81243.msg978547#msg978547 date=1299385654]
Back in my day..before computers, the internet, cell phone, ipod, ipad, ps-2, x-box, Wii, etc., I remember the thing to do after school or on the weekends was to go to C.O. Wilson and meet 8-10 other kids and play a pick up game of baseball. I also recall my dad taking a glove and bat and we would go for an after noon of playing catch, taking some grounders and practicing catching some deep fly balls. I did that with my dad until I graduated from high school. Never once did I think it was uncool. We need to spend as much time as we can with our kids in the backyard or at a park because one day they will wake up and think it is uncool to be out playing catch, etc. Kind of like the old song goes:

Son: Hey dad, want to go outside and play some catch?
Dad: Not now son, got bills to pay and work to do. We will do it again sometime soon.

8 years later

Dad: Hey son, want to go outside and play some ball?
Son: Not now dad. I need $40 and the car keys to take my girl to the movies. We will do it again soon..we will have a good time then.
[/quote]

I agree 100%.  We weren't allowed in the house until the street lights came on, now you can't get the kids outside.  I can't remember the last time I have seen a pick up baseball game or kids playing catch in the neighborhood.

The only practice kids do is in the cage.  Defense just isn't as important anymore, unless your team plans on making the trip to Austin and playing for the state title.  ;) [b] Hitting will get you noticed, but pitching and defense win championships.[b]
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more!!

[jay]

I'm not going to say which school or which "coach" said it but I have heard more than one High School Manager say "We are not coaches, we are mangers. If these kids want coaching, their parents need to invest in private lessons and get them on a summer team. This is High school ball, they should have gotten that in Little or Pony League". I agree with most of the statements here, too many defensive errors.