Time to cut the High School sports programs?

[Texasminuteman]

I would rather watch any high school sport over professional sports any day.But what I would rather see is more education going on than competitive sports.Many school districts are laying off teachers or are not renewing contracts due to budget shortfalls.When I see a school district such as Liberty doing this and plan on putting more than 30 kids in one classroom it concerns me.Liberty has 14 high school football coaches and cant even get a winning season,but do you hear about any of these guys getting laid off or not renewed,Nope.Kenneth Skidmore had 6 coaches when he won state for Hull Diasetta in '79,'Pudgy'Richardson had 6 coaches when he won state for Barbers Hill in '76.Why does any 3A or lower need anymore coaches than 6 ? We need certified teachers that can teach more than football and health.If you cant cut your budget good enough to keep your educators then you should cut back on sports.I am not singling out Liberty and football,but in most cases the football programs get the majority of the funding. Because of Title 9 the boys and the girls programs are to be equal in the funding.Many say that the extra money for the boys programs comes from the boosters and what have ya, Bull!!!You know as well as I do thats not the case,and if you believe that you are sadly misinformed.PARENTS you need to be aware that your childs education may suffer because an overzealous sports program.I know several coaches that work their tales off that do indeed teach more than health or PE,But my point is that we shouldnt allow sports to supersede education.

[dayton]

Numerous Dayton coaches teach:

History, Geography, Math, and Science as well as the few that teach health etc. Our health teachers at the Junior High do a good job of it too.... never been in a HS health room. They are held accountable by their departments, principals and by their students' scores on the state assessment. I'm sure other districts are the same.

Now, as to why we need so many coaches? who knows.... If you go back to the 40's and 50's, schools had 1 boys coach and MAYBE 1 girls coach for everything. Is that the answer?

I don't really have a solution, but simply wanted to point out that many coaches have to work hard to be good teachers.... the expectations are high if you wanna keep working.

[jayhawk]

Does anybody ask why all of sudden is there a buget shortfall ? And I presume most coaches are certified teachers ?  In TX, football is king and is very good to local economies ! Alot of athletes make better grades for fear of not making the team otherwise if there wasn't that goal I think the drop-out rate would go up significantly.

[win1soon]

"We need certified teachers that can teach more than football and health." ???

Coaches are certified teachers.  Most are full time teachers with one of their classes being an athletic class.  The amount that they receive for coaching duties after school in relation the amount of time they spend is peanuts.

I feel for all of the teachers and coaches who are losing their jobs.  But I feel you should make sure you have all of the facts before making those types of statements.  Coaches are a bargain.  You get a full time teacher who also works in the athletic area for very little pay. 

[Lionfan]

Attittudes like Donalds are precisely the reason why Liberty can't have a winning season. Ignorance in the community.

[liltex]

?Where the heck did all the lotto $ go that was suppossed to go to education ::) ::)

[dayton]

[quote name="liltex" post="980023" timestamp="1299684727"]
?Where the heck did all the lotto $ go that was suppossed to go to education ::) ::)
[/quote]

ditto.

[hitman009]

Donald… you really need to do your research before you post….

The coaches your school (liberty) has for the Varsity football program most of them teach core classes…..
2 teach PE (1 at high school, 1 at Jr. High)…1 speech teacher…. 1 ISS or sac… and 2 I could not find… I know they teach at the Jr. High…
These coaches could also coach at the Jr. High… your school has 7 football teams… and only  10 coaches… not very good numbers….
You are acting like every coach teaches health and PE… that is not the case…

Now if I was the principal I would keep coaches rather than just classroom teachers for these reasons:
• Coaches have a better work ethic… they work long hours for little pay… usually amounting to less than $1.00 a hour after all the time they spend after school and on the weekends.. I doubt you would find any just class teacher willing to work extra time for that rate..
• Someone has to coach the extracurricular activities…  Coaches teach life lessons through sports… Athletes are tomorrow’s leaders..  If you watch any school activates you would see most of the kids want to be, follow or mimic the athletic leaders… most of the leaders in the US played some kind of sport in high school…. Just a fact..
• Coaches communicate with kids better… they understand and know how to push a kid to do their best… even if they don’t play sports… they can relate and motivate…

As for the fund raisers…. I am sure they raise lots of money…  Just the baseball team in Crosby raised $25,000 so I am sure that your football program raised more money…. In fact, football is usually the only sport that makes money during the year…

Now, after all of this….Here is my opinion…. the real problem is our leaders in government …  Rick Perry want to run for President… and he wants to say our state buckled down in times of a depression…. Not realizing that cutting education is the last thing you want to do…
• the teachers that will be laid off will just take jobs from other applicants at other jobs or just file for unemployment….
• cutting costs in education will cause other layoffs in corporations that rely on extracurricular activates funding…. Such as athletic equipment, supplies, printing companies, ect….
• And classrooms will get bigger, which means less one on one times for kids who really need it…
• And the graduates will not be as prepared to enter a job force

I really don’t understand why our state is cutting funding when we our economics is on the rebound… All signs are showing that corporations are hiring…  now you cut funding in education?? They just made the people who are hunting for jobs and would be the front runner just move back for the teachers who are laid off that have degrees…
This should be Perry’s last term in office and all of those who support this decision..

[knows2much]

Things aren't the way they used to be.  Athletic directors don't just hire coaches and stick them in P.E. and health anymore.  They DO teach...and if they're not good teachers then they don't get hired.  And when you have 7th A, 7th B, 8th A, 8th B, Freshmen, JV, and Varsity.  And the fact that just about every high school coach in the business coaches more than 1 sport, then you need that many coaches.  You pretty much need 2 coaches per sub varsity football team....because 3A schools and bigger probably will have at least 20 kids per team.

Daisetta had 6 coaches in 79 as a 1A school......they still have 6 football coaches!  But now I bet they all teach core subjects and high needs areas.  And it's not liberty putting 30 kids in the classroom....that's the state.  

AND....schools like football will make quite a bit of that budget money back in admission and concessions.  Or maybe they don't.  Maybe if Liberty had more people show up to the games and cheer and buy nachos and soda then they would make that budget money back for the school.

Get your facts straight.....and trust me...plenty of coaches are getting cut too

[Javelina]

seems like Donald wants Liberty to cut all sports in the district.  If you cut all the sports you have to cut all the UIL academic activities also cause that cost money too.  So no sports, no band (instraments cost $$$), UIL Academics (debate, One act play, etc...), might as well cut out the student government as well.  So now students in Liberty ISD will go to school sit in proper classrooms and after go home and work the farm or cut firewood or something, but will prob have to drop out of school in Jr High to work on the farm.

[ChampionEagles]

And if you look at donald's abuse of spelling and grammer, maybe he had to repeat or should have repeated a class or two, and that kept him from participating in sports so he has an ax to grind about coaches. How can society accept the lack of reading comprehension and spelling is beyond me. Yes, let's cut education, it is plain we don't need it. An uneducated public makes a great working class.

[biggen]

donald,

most coaches teach.......I know a school that has 10 coaches and 1 teaches geography, 2 teach world history, 1 teaches u.s history, 1 teaches math, 1 teaches biology, 1 is a special ed teacher, 1 teaches a college prep course, and 1 teaches P.E.......that si why coaches do not get laid off, cause they teach

[True Blue]

[quote name="liltex" post="980023" timestamp="1299684727"]
?Where the heck did all the lotto $ go that was suppossed to go to education ::) ::)
[/quote] Maybe you should ask Rick Perry. He has never held a job, and now he is a Millionaire.

[Texasminuteman]

I stand corrected,Liberty doesnt have 14 football coaches at the High School.They have 13 and the head coach/AD doesnt teach anything in the classroom and I can still only count 6 that do teach.Attitudes(properly spelled)reflect leadership,Liberty ISD is hurting in this area and if my attitude is so bad that it causes the football team to loose then I wont go to anymore Liberty games unless they somehow play Dayton or Barbers Hill again and Im sure Ill get to see another tail whoopin'. Dont blame Rick Perry!!! Everyone knows its George Bush's fault,just ask Obama!!!

[shermdog]

At the district I am at, this is the teaching/coaching line up:

Science:  One teaches Physics, Aquatics and engineering and the other teaches Chemistry, One at JH
History:  One World History, One US History, One Eco and Govt, 3 at JH( Texas and World Cultures)
ISS:  One at HS and One at JH that also teaches History
PE:  One at Jh Boys and one at Jh girls and One at HS that also teaches Health, one at elem
Math:  One at JH
Special Education: Three at HS
Computers/Speech: One at HS

So please, coaches do teach.

BTW my dad coached and taught Calculus!

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="donald3633" post="980991" timestamp="1299810747"]
I stand corrected,Liberty doesnt have 14 football coaches at the High School.They have 13 and the head coach/AD doesnt teach anything in the classroom and I can still only count 6 that do teach.Attitudes(properly spelled)reflect leadership,Liberty ISD is hurting in this area and if my attitude is so bad that it causes the football team to loose then I wont go to anymore Liberty games unless they somehow play Dayton or Barbers Hill again and Im sure Ill get to see another tail whoopin'. Dont blame Rick Perry!!! Everyone knows its George Bush's fault,just ask Obama!!!
[/quote]

I don't know about the athletic department, but if your posts are in any way representative of the spelling and grammar skills of the average Liberty H.S. graduate, the English department could use a bit of a cleaning.

[Guest jhamilton]

[quote name="shermdog" post="981008" timestamp="1299812458"]
At the district I am at, this is the teaching/coaching line up:

Science:  One teaches Physics, Aquatics and engineering and the other teaches Chemistry, One at JH
History:  One World History, One US History, One Eco and Govt, 3 at JH( Texas and World Cultures)
ISS:  One at HS and One at JH that also teaches History
PE:  One at Jh Boys and one at Jh girls and One at HS that also teaches Health, one at elem
Math:  One at JH
Special Education: Three at HS
Computers/Speech: One at HS

So please, coaches do teach.

BTW my dad coached and taught Calculus!


[/quote]




Kudos to Dad

[hitman009]

[quote name="donald3633" post="980991" timestamp="1299810747"]
I stand corrected,Liberty doesnt have 14 football coaches at the High School.They have 13 and the head coach/AD doesnt teach anything in the classroom and I can still only count 6 that do teach.Attitudes(properly spelled)reflect leadership,Liberty ISD is hurting in this area and if my attitude is so bad that it causes the football team to loose then I wont go to anymore Liberty games unless they somehow play Dayton or Barbers Hill again and Im sure Ill get to see another tail whoopin'. Dont blame Rick Perry!!! Everyone knows its George Bush's fault,just ask Obama!!!
[/quote]from liberty web site...

Head Coach:       Shane Deel      
Assistant Coaches:       Robby Fontenot, James Dickey, Brandon Krauskopf, Steve Griffith,  
      Thomas Cooper, Josh Krivarchka, Andrew Rizzo, J. Blaine Orr,  
      James Logan, Michael Neely

that is 10 and 1 AD.... AD's dont teach... they have too much to do....
Obama does not run this state... these cuts are coming from the state not national.... Bush has not been gov of texas for a long time...
again.... do your research....

[belle-mere]

Donald,
When I was a classroom teacher, I thought we placed too much emphasis on sports, had too many coaches, &, most of all, had too many kids missing classes for sporting events. However, I also saw that many athletes worked harder during their sports seasons in order to remain eligible. I saw that almost every coach invested a crazy amount of time in preparation & execution of their coaching assignments, & that they invested time & interest in their players, much more so than most regular classroom teachers.

Now, I never got over the amount of classtime that students & coaches miss. And, I see today's budget crisis as an opportunity to truly make sports extracurricular, i.e., after school & on Saturdays.  I don't, however, want to see an end to high school sports, just curtail tournaments & track meets held during school hours & limiting the number of days students, not just athletes, can miss class.

As for coaches & the classes they teach, well during this crisis, they may have to limit the number of athletics periodS to which they're assigned to one or, in worst case scenarios, none--with athletics being truly extracurricular & after school. But, I think this should be temporary, as coaches already devote inordinate amounts of time away from their families. I'd like to see at least one athletic class preserved, but in lieu of 35-40 kids @ class, the coach should teach an academic class or devote part of an athletic period to tutoring kids left behind because of the large class sizes.

[Texasminuteman]

The Liberty web site does not list all the coaches,or their total duties,you do your research and ask someone that works there.
THANK YOU BELLE -MERE for your post,so far to date the most mature posting.Its better to try to help someone understand than to call names or accuse someone of not getting the facts right when there own facts are flawed.                                                                                                                                          As far as my spelling goes, I use spell check on my computer so their cant be too many words misspelled,and if anyone doesnt like my grammar you shouldnt have moved down here to Texas.Oh by the way,let me explain my comment on George Bush,it was a Joke,but I guess this day and age you have to make yourself clear or some simple minded person may misconstrue what you say.How come nobody said anything about the poor research on the statement about Rick Perry never having a job? Fact is he was a door to door salesman,a C-130 pilot for the US Air Force,and a cotton farmer

[ChampionEagles]

"here" for "hear" is not correct in any context. Grammer has nothing to do with where your from, those are colloquialisms. I could nit pick further, but my people have only been in Texas since 1809 and "we ain't got no good grasp of the language down hear yet". ;D

[WOSgrad]

You may need to have your computer serviced, because your spell check is failing you.

[hitman009]

[quote name="donald3633" post="981135" timestamp="1299859210"]
The Liberty web site does not list all the coaches,or their total duties,you do your research and ask someone that works there.
THANK YOU BELLE -MERE for your post,so far to date the most mature posting.Its better to try to help someone understand than to call names or accuse someone of not getting the facts right when there own facts are flawed.                                                                                                                                          As far as my spelling goes, I use spell check on my computer so their cant be too many words misspelled,and if anyone doesnt like my grammar you shouldnt have moved down here to Texas.Oh by the way,let me explain my comment on George Bush,it was a Joke,but I guess this day and age you have to make yourself clear or some simple minded person may misconstrue what you say.How come nobody said anything about the poor research on the statement about Rick Perry never having a job? Fact is he was a door to door salesman,a C-130 pilot for the US Air Force,and a cotton farmer
[/quote]ok im going to go farther.... these are a list of all the rest of the coaches besides football at the high shcool and what they teach...

Rizzo - baskeball - social studies
Woods - track, cross country - math
Reed - track, social studies
Barnette - track - science
slack - softball, vollyball - science
welps - vollyball, softball - math
Bickham - cross country, basketball - PE

there is 7 coaches that do not coach football and 6 are core classes... you made it sound like every coach does health or PE.... YOU ARE WRONG!!!
Coaches teach as well as coach.... 

[hitman009]

[quote name="belle-mere" post="981084" timestamp="1299845590"]
Donald,
When I was a classroom teacher, I thought we placed too much emphasis on sports, had too many coaches, &, most of all, had too many kids missing classes for sporting events. However, I also saw that many athletes worked harder during their sports seasons in order to remain eligible. I saw that almost every coach invested a crazy amount of time in preparation & execution of their coaching assignments, & that they invested time & interest in their players, much more so than most regular classroom teachers.

Now, I never got over the amount of classtime that students & coaches miss. And, I see today's budget crisis as an opportunity to truly make sports extracurricular, i.e., after school & on Saturdays.  I don't, however, want to see an end to high school sports, just curtail tournaments & track meets held during school hours & limiting the number of days students, not just athletes, can miss class.

As for coaches & the classes they teach, well during this crisis, they may have to limit the number of athletics periodS to which they're assigned to one or, in worst case scenarios, none--with athletics being truly extracurricular & after school. But, I think this should be temporary, as coaches already devote inordinate amounts of time away from their families. I'd like to see at least one athletic class preserved, but in lieu of 35-40 kids @ class, the coach should teach an academic class or devote part of an athletic period to tutoring kids left behind because of the large class sizes.
[/quote]great post... but it is not just athletic events that miss school..... UIL misses as well as one act play, AGG....  IF you have to cut athletic event travel during class then you have to do it for these as well...

[bobtex]

In High School Boys Sports; Football, Basketball, Baseball and Soccer are money makers for the school!