Question????

[CraigS]

Not to mention that id venture to say more schools have track programs than softball....a few schools I know of that do not have softball but does have track

USC
SMU
Rice
Lamar
Colorado
Tulane

[Kris_Gilmore]

Again not a clue I tried to tell you that junior olympics is not important. I worked 2 years with Baylor track and field as a grad assist and have been around the recruiting process.  Coaches could care less if you were national junior olympic champion they mainly care about time, distance, or height.  Though Baylor is not a big recruiter of foreign athletes they have had a few over the past few years.  Foreign recruiting increases the percents dramatically take for instance Lamar Univeristy has around 26 on their womens roster with 6 or 7 not from the US and I am willing to bet they didn't come to Beaumont, TX for free.  I ran track and field at McNeese and at one time while I was there I was one of two athletes out of 15 distance runners from the U.S.  Now besides watching a few softball games in college and at the high school I coach at maybe I am clueless and there is a huge recruiting draw from south america or maybe canada.  I am willing to bet that at the college softball world series there were less than 5 athletes from all 8 teams combined from another country.  There are probably 10 foreign athletes just in the womens 10K at the National Track Meet.

Softball Roster according to you 25 with 12 on scholarship about 50 %
Track and Field 60 with 18 scholarships less than 33 %

The truth is no matter the sport its not easy to get a scholarship.  Either one of us could state statistics to make it look like we are right.  For instance do all track and field rosters have 60, NO they don't.

[CraigS]

[quote name="Kris_Gilmore" post="996699" timestamp="1302666986"]
Again not a clue I tried to tell you that junior olympics is not important. I worked 2 years with Baylor track and field as a grad assist and have been around the recruiting process.  Coaches could care less if you were national junior olympic champion they mainly care about time, distance, or height.  Though Baylor is not a big recruiter of foreign athletes they have had a few over the past few years.  Foreign recruiting increases the percents dramatically take for instance Lamar Univeristy has around 26 on their womens roster with 6 or 7 not from the US and I am willing to bet they didn't come to Beaumont, TX for free.  I ran track and field at McNeese and at one time while I was there I was one of two athletes out of 15 distance runners from the U.S.  Now besides watching a few softball games in college and at the high school I coach at maybe I am clueless and there is a huge recruiting draw from south america or maybe canada.  I am willing to bet that at the college softball world series there were less than 5 athletes from all 8 teams combined from another country.  There are probably 10 foreign athletes just in the womens 10K at the National Track Meet.

Softball Roster according to you 25 with 12 on scholarship about 50 %
Track and Field 60 with 18 scholarships less than 33 %

The truth is no matter the sport its not easy to get a scholarship.  Either one of us could state statistics to make it look like we are right.  For instance do all track and field rosters have 60, NO they don't.
[/quote]

1) the more a kid competes and trains the better they will be....if a kid just participated during the HS SEASON IN ANY SPORT...they are not going to be as good as a kid of equal talent that competes and trains all year.....hence the numbers as you put it will be better for those "select" athletes...therefore id say the college coaches would care.

2) you are the one who brought up stats....and I noticed you left out the one that shows how many more colleges have track & field compared to those who have softball....still giving the overall participants that you stated more opportunities.....

3) we learned more from a Junior in HS that intoduced us to (club track) because he participates...in 2 weeks than we did in 2 yrs from HS track....she increased her numbers in HJ by 4" in the last 3 meets......explain please

4) there is a school for every player (with any talent at all) if they are willing to travel outside of their region...participate at any level from JUCO to Di,...

Now if your experience is diiferent than that so be it.....it doesn't change the facts.

On the otherhand....I am not belittling any sport or athlete....just saying more opportunity...besides that YOU are the one who brought up scholarships....I said opportunity...only about 100K more participants throughout the contry....twice the team numbers...and a lot more scools offer girls track than offer softball

Bend it how you want...YOUR numbers along with my knowledge of how few schools offer softball PROVES my point...even if you want to continue to argue.

[Kris_Gilmore]

On topic, all coaches know almost a year in advance of when the district meet, and if a kid can't participate at district meet they shouldn't bother coming out for the sport. 

Ok so I guess since I am the only one who knows how to research, you are right there are a lot more schools appx 78 because I might have been off one or two when counting.  241 Division 1 Universities participate in softball and 319 Division 1 participate in track and field.  But schools like Lamar PA and San Jac don't have track and field, but have softball.  There are probably a lot more Non D1 schools that have softball as compared to track and field.

You still have not commented on recruiting of foreign athletes in softball.  I am out of the loop, and would like to know.


Again since your daughter is a field event athlete I never said you wouldn't learn anything from junior olympics.  I said it was beneficial for field event athletes.

Also, I guess you didn't know that in the state of Texas you can practice almost year around for the individual sports of track and field, tennis, and golf.  We do practice year around and my athletes not once participate in select/summer track and field.

[Coach27]

Kids should play high school sports first. period!  that only time that they have to play high school sports is in high school... there are thousands of clubs for every age out there!!!!!!  they can play any sport until they are 100 years old!! there are only 4 years to play high school ball........ 4 years in an entire lifetime!!!!!!!!

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HIGH SCHOOLS!!!!

[JohnnyT60]

Worked out for mine. HS is not the end all, but having said that her HS experience is one she will remember forever. This is also one of the reasons she didn't play HS basketball. She knew that if the BB season was still going on, she wouldn't be allowed to play SB. And select is exactly what got her the scholarship. The bottom line the answer to the question is not as black and white as it may appear, and most people don't truly understand girl select sports. It is very possible for a boy to get a scholarship without ever playing select, while it is almost impossible for a girl if she doesn't.

[Riding Solo]

I agree that select sports do help kids, no doubt in my mind but not at the expense of high school sports. I will keep saying this till the day I die. You don't see this trend in 4A and 5A because there is plenty kids to go around but in 3A on down when kids start specializing in one sport then sooner or later certain sports will die. We won't see it in my life time but it will happen. Again I have not seen it in girls sports but I have on the boys side. Sure the numbers are small right now (specializing) but they will grow because things get easier with each generation that = lasier.

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="997409" timestamp="1302810206"]
I agree that select sports do help kids, no doubt in my mind but not at the expense of high school sports. I will keep saying this till the day I die. You don't see this trend in 4A and 5A because there is plenty kids to go around but in 3A on down when kids start specializing in one sport then sooner or later certain sports will die. We won't see it in my life time but it will happen. Again I have not seen it in girls sports but I have on the boys side. Sure the numbers are small right now (specializing) but they will grow [color=red]because things get easier with each generation that = lasier[/color].
[/quote]

Just so no one misreads something. What I mean is, your devoted athletes will always play and compete. It is the number of devoted athletes that is shrinking.

[CraigS]

[quote name="Coach27" post="997321" timestamp="1302799231"]
Kids should play high school sports first. period!  that only time that they have to play high school sports is in high school... there are thousands of clubs for every age out there!!!!!!  they can play any sport until they are 100 years old!! there are only 4 years to play high school ball........ 4 years in an entire lifetime!!!!!!!!

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HIGH SCHOOLS!!!!
[/quote]

Really....is that kinda like the only time they can play college sports is in college....I think so.....so for those who have bigger dreams and higher goals...and want more memories....play select so that that dream can come true....I never said DON'T play HS....I'm just saying for those who want more...stay on track and stay with what got you there in the first place.

[tjcfan08]

I think you said EVERYTHING else BUT......I never said don't play HS.....I mean when a parent/athlete walks up to a HS Coach and gives them an ultimatum, unbelievable....I think you have more issues than the topic that was started on this thread which was mainly about "supporting HS sports"...I support HS Sports 100 percent, but I also don't have a problem with kids working on their dream during the sport in season and on their own time, and at our school that is a no-no...Good luck to anyone that has a dream!!!!  My daughter has a dream and I'm driving her back and forth to Sugarland to try to get her back on the court from an injury.....I sure hope I get at least one more opportunity to see her play.....best of luck to you and your daughter.....

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="tjcfan08" post="997501" timestamp="1302823637"]
I think you said EVERYTHING else BUT......I never said don't play HS.....I mean when a parent/athlete walks up to a HS Coach and gives them an ultimatum, unbelievable....I think you have more issues than the topic that was started on this thread which was mainly about "supporting HS sports"...I support HS Sports 100 percent, but I also don't have a problem with kids working on their dream during the sport in season and on their own time, and at our school that is a no-no...Good luck to anyone that has a dream!!!!  My daughter has a dream and I'm driving her back and forth to Sugarland to try to get her back on the court from an injury.....I sure hope I get at least one more opportunity to see her play.....best of luck to you and your daughter.....
[/quote]

Great post.

[CraigS]

[quote name="tjcfan08" post="997501" timestamp="1302823637"]
I think you said EVERYTHING else BUT......I never said don't play HS.....I mean when a parent/athlete walks up to a HS Coach and gives them an ultimatum, unbelievable....I think you have more issues than the topic that was started on this thread which was mainly about "supporting HS sports"...I support HS Sports 100 percent, but I also don't have a problem with kids working on their dream during the sport in season and on their own time, and at our school that is a no-no...Good luck to anyone that has a dream!!!!  My daughter has a dream and I'm driving her back and forth to Sugarland to try to get her back on the court from an injury.....I sure hope I get at least one more opportunity to see her play.....best of luck to you and your daughter.....
[/quote]

The problem is (at least in my kids cases) it wasn't us giving the ultimatum....it was the HS coaches.....if you miss 2 events you will be kicked off. Made the choice for my daughter pretty easy....then I won't play. She already knew there would be 2 conflicts in the schedule...so why join in the first place to KNOW she would face that.

I agree also that the lower class schools already have a shortage of kids who have great work ethic.....all the more reason to work around the schedules of those athletes first choice of sports (even at the select level) the coaches are the one forcing the kids away.

[Coach27]

CraigS
I played HS ball and club ball and never missed ONE UIL GAME for club and signed a full scholarship.......and would of NEVER put my high school coaches in a situation where i "told" them when i would be there.  I was there.......because i made that committment to the team, to my coach and to the local high school i played for. 
Playing a college sport is a job.....i know this from experience.  the demands are HUGE...They are paying your way so they own you.... and yes, i played because of the love of the game-- but there is a difference.
It's not the same experience as playing high school ball....... BUT--you don't seem like the type to hear anyone elses argument on this subject ..... not even coming from a person who has 'been there, done that'...

[CraigS]

[quote name="Coach27" post="997686" timestamp="1302881838"]
CraigS
I played HS ball and club ball and never missed ONE UIL GAME for club and signed a full scholarship.......and would of NEVER put my high school coaches in a situation where i "told" them when i would be there.  I was there.......because i made that committment to the team, to my coach and to the local high school i played for. 
Playing a college sport is a job.....i know this from experience.  the demands are HUGE...They are paying your way so they own you.... and yes, i played because of the love of the game-- but there is a difference.
It's not the same experience as playing high school ball....... BUT--you don't seem like the type to hear anyone elses argument on this subject ..... not even coming from a person who has 'been there, done that'...


[/quote]

And you don't seem like the type that can read.......so have I lived it....College Baseball.....and my experience obviously was way different than yours. Because where as you call it hard work...I called it Thank God I'm with other who share my same level of work ethic....hence the WAY MORE FUN....

Whether you agree or not....and disagreeing is fine....all I'm saying is...if a kid does both and there is a conflict....someone (a team) is going to be without you (can't be in 2 places at once)....and BOTH teams have your commitment.....I say choose the one that will more likely further your carrer if that's your goal.....

And in my kids case the coaches asked if she was playing volleybal (busy time for showcases in select SB)....she told them her schedule....they said if you miss 2 times you're done....she said...no thanks....I'm not playing at all then....she didn't give an ultimatum....she didn't skip out on the VB team after committing...yet she WAS critsized for choosing a select sport over a school sport...

[tjcfan08]

Hey CraigS, just courious - Where did you play College Baseball?

[CraigS]

USL in Lafayette...now known as ULL....my Dad died of cancer I left came home to help my mom.....I'm the oldest of 8

[CraigS]

I was a re shirt freshman....Xavier Hernandez's senior year

[JohnnyT60]

"Coach I would love to play VB but my first love is SB and I have tournaments on these dates. If it is un-acceptable to miss those dates I understand." That is not an ultimatum, that is being up front and letting the coach know where you stand, and either it is acceptable or it is not. As long as the coach knows what the player's intentions are and everyone is honest, there is no room for hurt feelings. Look, either the coach is ok with it or he is not. My kid would have been an easy 1st team all-district in BB, but SB was more important and she made the right decision. You act like if you don't choose the HS sport that you are somehow devious. I don't understand that mentality. My kid participated in many NC tournaments and 5 of them put her getting back to school late, thankfully our school was supportive.