Question????

[CraigS]

Yes good dialogue from an opposite perspective.....and yes by far the most action on the track thread in a while.

And thanks, this my youngest of 3 girls....we did enjoy it and will continue...wish y'all luck as well.

[YOUKNOWIT11]

Most girls HS teams would never be the teams they are without select sports athletes. Coaches are lucky to have them and should be flexible at times.

It's funny though how some coaches will shun a player for playing another sport or two. What? Do they not want true athletes on their team? Can they not be a bit flexible when their really true athlete has another obligation that will benefit their future? Give and take will help their team.

But I'm sure the parents that are complaining to the coaches about select sport athletes playing above their darlings are the players who are either not very athletic or ones who don't put their kid's first and see that they have better training, sometimes year round, in specific sports so they can excel and rise above others and make their HS teams more successful simply because they found an avenue to be a better trained athlete.

The worst we've found are volleyball coaches who demand...illegally I might add...that the VB girls train together one week prior to the legal day to start workouts. So the successful 16u or Gold SB player has to get grief from the VB Coach and be punished either by playing on JV even though she's a better player than 99% of the varsity players or gets on varsity and sits til the coach gets beat enough they have to put her in. That shows up quickly who should have been on varsity all along or who should have been playing on varsity and not sitting so much. It's funny then on the flip side when a SB and VB select player in both sports has a club VB tournament on a Sat and her HS softball coach gladly accepts that she needs to miss practice. Give and take like I said helps everyone. Funny too how most SB teams around SE Texas are more successful by going deeper in the playoffs than their NONFLEXIBLE HS VB coaches.

Just my two cents! 

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="YOUKNOWIT11" post="995605" timestamp="1302500666"]
Most girls HS teams would never be the teams they are without select sports athletes. Coaches are lucky to have them and should be flexible at times.

It's funny though how some coaches will shun a player for playing another sport or two. What? Do they not want true athletes on their team? Can they not be a bit flexible when their really true athlete has another obligation that will benefit their future? Give and take will help their team.

But I'm sure the parents that are complaining to the coaches about select sport athletes playing above their darlings are the players who are either not very athletic or ones who don't put their kid's first and see that they have better training, sometimes year round, in specific sports so they can excel and rise above others and make their HS teams more successful simply because they found an avenue to be a better trained athlete.

The worst we've found are volleyball coaches who demand...illegally I might add...that the VB girls train together one week prior to the legal day to start workouts. So the successful 16u or Gold SB player has to get grief from the VB Coach and be punished either by playing on JV even though she's a better player than 99% of the varsity players or gets on varsity and sits til the coach gets beat enough they have to put her in. That shows up quickly who should have been on varsity all along or who should have been playing on varsity and not sitting so much. It's funny then on the flip side when a SB and VB select player in both sports has a club VB tournament on a Sat and her HS softball coach gladly accepts that she needs to miss practice. Give and take like I said helps everyone. Funny too how most SB teams around SE Texas are more successful by going deeper in the playoffs than their NONFLEXIBLE HS VB coaches.

Just my two cents! 
[/quote]


Nobody is complaining about select sports. I think they are great but not at the expense of their high school team IMO.  I can tell you that at 3A schools and down, the coaches want all the kids to play as many sports that they can. They have to, the numbers simply are not there. A line has to be drawn somewhere if not there would be anarchy.

[Zoneblock]

only plus side to select sports that i can see is all the extra reps the boys and girls get in hitting and fielding.

[ncplaya]

The problem you face with HS track is that most HS athletes are not track athletes.  They are basketballers, softballers, volleyballers, etc that run track.  Im not going to punish a girl for missing a meet or two to better herself.  I had a girl miss a meet for a volleyball tourn.  BUT, a District meet is different.  If I was that coach and would have known ahead of time she wouldnt have ran.  So, I can see why it is a big deal

[AggiesAreWe]

I agree. Missing a regular meet or a non district game for a select sport is okay by me. But district, regional, state meets or any playoff game should not be missed for any select sport.

If high school sports are considered just a "past time" and not an "important time", then don't "waste the time". ;)

[CraigS]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="995714" timestamp="1302539479"]
I agree. Missing a regular meet or a non district game for a select sport is okay by me. But district, regional, state meets or any playoff game should not be missed for any select sport.

If high school sports are considered just a "past time" and not an "important time", then don't "waste the time". ;)
[/quote]

Here is a thought for ya.....when the schools put as much thought into hiring specific coaches for EVERY sports as they do their head football....Athletic Director.....offensive and defensive coordinators......then maybe it would be considered more legit....rather than putting football coaches in positions to babysit in order to get just another stipend.

And when the college coaches that we talk to on a regular basis start asking us where we play high school...and what our high school stats are....we may then also consider HS sports to be more legit.

Or when the college coaches show up by the hundreds to watch a HS game....yep ditto

Or when it becomes a requirement for all players on the team to put forth the same time and effort to be the best they can be...rather than show up only during the season...and stay only for the required practice time....then maybe it would seem more legit.

There aren't many HS teams including 5A that can beat a legit 14U select team....not to be confused with what the GT calls select as a whole....when you watch enough to KNOW what I'm talking about....then you'll understand.

Another example....when was the last time you heard of a school sending a coaching staff of softball....baseball....soccer...cross country.....track....volleyball.....to a coaches clinic that comes anywhere close to that of which the football coaches go to.

[tjcfan08]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="995714" timestamp="1302539479"]
I agree. Missing a regular meet or a non district game for a select sport is okay by me. But district, regional, state meets or any playoff game should not be missed for any select sport.

If high school sports are considered just a "past time" and not an "important time", then don't "waste the time". ;)
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more AGGIEEEEEEE!!!!  ;D

[Riding Solo]

The established 5A programs would chew up any 14U team. We are talking about 18 year olds vs 14 years olds. Come on man!!!! I think you missed Aggie’s point. I agree several girls in the golden triangle have gone on to play at the next level but when was the last one that went division 1? Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think it was Cody Trahan from LCM.
Parents put way too much pressure on their kids to excel in sports these days. Select started out as a good thing but now we live in the “ME” generation.  Yes, the select kids play to win but when the lights go off to the parents and the kids because the parents have made them that way, it is all about “ME”. 
Never pushed my kids, they were self-motivated in sports. At 14 years old kids are still motivated. Write me in 4 years and I hope your kid still is, a sport that is. Don’t think education is an issue according to you, which is awesome.  High school sports are still the purist form of competition and team work. When a goal is a goal and not how many college coaches are in the stands. 

[Riding Solo]

If you are good enough the college coaches will be there if it is high school or select, plain and simple. My daughter was not good enough apparently and that's ok with me. But she tried out for a college team, made it and the rest is history.

[Riding Solo]

I also agree with Aggie. ;D ;D

[CraigS]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="995999" timestamp="1302570404"]
The established 5A programs would chew up any 14U team. We are talking about 18 year olds vs 14 years olds. Come on man!!!! I think you missed Aggie’s point. I agree several girls in the golden triangle have gone on to play at the next level but when was the last one that went division 1? Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think it was Cody Trahan from LCM.
Parents put way too much pressure on their kids to excel in sports these days. Select started out as a good thing but now we live in the “ME” generation.  Yes, the select kids play to win but when the lights go off to the parents and the kids because the parents have made them that way, it is all about “ME”. 
Never pushed my kids, they were self-motivated in sports. At 14 years old kids are still motivated. Write me in 4 years and I hope your kid still is, a sport that is. Don’t think education is an issue according to you, which is awesome.  High school sports are still the purist form of competition and team work. When a goal is a goal and not how many college coaches are in the stands. 

[/quote]
#1....you have a distorted view of HS talent as a whole...or maybe you underestimate the talent in select softball.

#2...Ashley Kuhn @ LSU...from Ned...actually signed with NW La out of HS......ashley Leon committed to full ride at McNeese.....during the same time Cody went DI...there was a whole slew of them.....Verde...Parker....Lemoine...Godwin....Tankersley...Laporolorie (sp).....Beard......and several others who names I forget...catcher from WB.....Pitcher fro. WB.....oh..and Hanan....the reason for the lapse in number recently is due to the lapse in select programs like what Robert Verde had during that time in the GT.

#3...Its of the times....if a kid wants to play in top programs they must compete with top competition year round...now if "just" playing at any level above HS is all you seek....then I will do it the HS only way.....YOU WILL NOT find a single kid that plays in the SEC....big XII....Pac 10....Big 10...ACC....Big East.....that did not play at top select softball programs

#4...maybe...but if a kid wants to play in the conferences mentioned above......its more about WHICH college coaches are in the stands....and it ain't happening at HS games

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="Craig S" post="996054" timestamp="1302574334"]
[quote author=Riding Solo link=topic=82947.msg995999#msg995999 date=1302570404]
The established 5A programs would chew up any 14U team. We are talking about 18 year olds vs 14 years olds. Come on man!!!! I think you missed Aggie’s point. I agree several girls in the golden triangle have gone on to play at the next level but when was the last one that went division 1? Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think it was Cody Trahan from LCM.
Parents put way too much pressure on their kids to excel in sports these days. Select started out as a good thing but now we live in the “ME” generation.  Yes, the select kids play to win but when the lights go off to the parents and the kids because the parents have made them that way, it is all about “ME”. 
Never pushed my kids, they were self-motivated in sports. At 14 years old kids are still motivated. Write me in 4 years and I hope your kid still is, a sport that is. Don’t think education is an issue according to you, which is awesome.  High school sports are still the purist form of competition and team work. When a goal is a goal and not how many college coaches are in the stands. 

[/quote]
#1....you have a distorted view of HS talent as a whole...or maybe you underestimate the talent in select softball.

#2...Ashley Kuhn @ LSU...from Ned...actually signed with NW La out of HS......ashley Leon committed to full ride at McNeese.....during the same time Cody went DI...there was a whole slew of them.....Verde...Parker....Lemoine...Godwin....Tankersley...Laporolorie (sp).....Beard......and several others who names I forget...catcher from WB.....Pitcher fro. WB.....oh..and Hanan....the reason for the lapse in number recently is due to the lapse in select programs like what Robert Verde had during that time in the GT.

#3...Its of the times....if a kid wants to play in top programs they must compete with top competition year round...now if "just" playing at any level above HS is all you seek....then I will do it the HS only way.....YOU WILL NOT find a single kid that plays in the SEC....big XII....Pac 10....Big 10...ACC....Big East.....that did not play at top select softball programs

#4...maybe...but if a kid wants to play in the conferences mentioned above......its more about WHICH college coaches are in the stands....and it ain't happening at HS games
[/quote]

Most of these kids you have mentioned graduated a few years back and I mean a few. You have a distorted view. Don't get me wrong, I hope everthing works out for you and your child but Select is not what it is all cracked up to be. For some parents and kids it is false dreams. Hope that is not the case for you and your daughter. Good luck man.

[CraigS]

You're the one that brought up Cody Trahan.....most of those girls played on the same pathetic good for nothing...do no good for the kids select team. The colleges connected to those kids are the likes of LSU...Alabama...ole Miss...McNeese..ULL...Sam Houston...New Mexico State....Ok State...that doesn't count the ones playing now....like mentioned before 27 from GT Shockers alone....plus however many more from other local select teams...from JUCO to DI.

Not dilusional at all.....we live it everyday....in fact we have practices every some often during the season to keep the kids from falling to far behind...as we only have so much time to get them ready for the summer....when the real games begin.

[Riding Solo]

[quote name="Craig S" post="996092" timestamp="1302577033"]
You're the one that brought up Cody Trahan.....most of those girls played on the same pathetic good for nothing...do no good for the kids select team. The colleges connected to those kids are the likes of LSU...Alabama...ole Miss...McNeese..ULL...Sam Houston...New Mexico State....Ok State...that doesn't count the ones playing now....like mentioned before 27 from GT Shockers alone....plus however many more from other local select teams...from JUCO to DI.

Not dilusional at all.....we live it everyday....in fact we have practices every some often during the season to keep the kids from falling to far behind...as we only have so much time to get them ready for the summer....when the real games begin.
[/quote]

Again never said select is a bad thing but have seen the down side of it. Keep living the dream man. Hope it works out for you. It is about you. Buy the way no kid you mentioned Is like Cody. Not yet anyway. It is a goal to encourage our young people to strive for.

[CraigS]

[quote name="Riding Solo" post="996103" timestamp="1302578168"]
[quote author=Craig S link=topic=82947.msg996092#msg996092 date=1302577033]
You're the one that brought up Cody Trahan.....most of those girls played on the same pathetic good for nothing...do no good for the kids select team. The colleges connected to those kids are the likes of LSU...Alabama...ole Miss...McNeese..ULL...Sam Houston...New Mexico State....Ok State...that doesn't count the ones playing now....like mentioned before 27 from GT Shockers alone....plus however many more from other local select teams...from JUCO to DI.

Not dilusional at all.....we live it everyday....in fact we have practices every some often during the season to keep the kids from falling to far behind...as we only have so much time to get them ready for the summer....when the real games begin.
[/quote]

Again never said select is a bad thing but have seen the down side of it. Keep living the dream man. Hope it works out for you. It is about you. Buy the way no kid you mentioned Is like Cody. Not yet anyway. It is a goal to encourage our young people to strive for.
[/quote]

As mentioned, I played college baseball, my dream has already been lived. It's all about me helping my kid live her dream. Why is it always ASSUMED that its the parents living through their kid when kids go beyond the comprehension of some in their work ethics.

I've known Cody and her family for a while now, In fact spent time with them at LSU Sunday. I would venture to say even they would agree that not just ONE, but SEVERAL of those girls mentioned "IS like Cody" and yes yet anyway, because they to have completed their college careers.

I think you need to look at your kids path as the exception, if she walked on, and got a scholarship, rather than the rule.

Other things to be considered, what sport (for example alot less kids run CC, so that would be easier to achieve by %) and also what size school did that occur. I'm not taking away from the accomplishment....just stating there is a BIG difference in JUCO and DI, obviously. then there is even a BIG difference between Lamar PA and say Navarro in the JUCO, or LSU and McNeese....etc

Not taking away from kids who play at any level above HS....just HOW big their dreams are may have yet another level at which they must compete and train.

[SteelerCzy]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="995714" timestamp="1302539479"]
I agree. Missing a regular meet or a non district game for a select sport is okay by me. But district, regional, state meets or any playoff game should not be missed for any select sport.

If high school sports are considered just a "past time" and not an "important time", then don't "waste the time". ;)
[/quote]
Agree 100 percent.

[dayton]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="995714" timestamp="1302539479"]
I agree. Missing a regular meet or a non district game for a select sport is okay by me. [b]But district, regional, state meets or any playoff game should not be missed for any select sport.[/b]
If high school sports are considered just a "past time" and not an "important time", then don't "waste the time". ;)
[/quote]

that's where the line is for me.... missing one of those meets for a tourney that's not state, nationals, etc just doesn't make sense. Those are the meets that matter! To help the team all year and then not when it really counts just seems pointless.

[Kris_Gilmore]

Craig S you might know a lot about softball but don't even have a clue about cross country and track and field.  Don't make a reference about a lot less kids run cross country so it would be easier to get a scholarship.  In the state of Texas more kids on girls side play basketball and track and field than any other sport last time I checked.  They don't give cross country scholarships, they are track and field scholarships.  A university has to field an entire cross country and track and field team with 12.6 scholarships on men's side and 18 on women's.  A track team is ALOT larger than a softball team. Just a little FYI.

I know a girl who signed with a BIG XII school for track and field/cross country who is a TOP 5 runner in her event in the state of texas and signed for a books scholarship.

[Riding Solo]

Craig me and you could argue our points all day long but in the end neither one of us will change our thinking and that is OK. I am not downing select at all. I see the pro's and con's and I am sure you do too. I applaud any kid that makes it to the next level from good ole fashion hard work. They are the exception not the rule. If you have a kid that has ability and great work ethic, then you have someone special. You know as well as I do there are a lot of great athletes that do not have a good work ethic. That being said we again have jumped off subject a little bit. LOL!!!!

The kid in question and the parent made an honest mistake. The did not check the schedule to see if the volleyball tournament conflicted with a school sport. They assumed the district meet would start on tuesday like in the past. Now, that is still not an excuse to me. Personaly I would have done some more researching before committing but that is just me. The only reason I brought this up was not to say anything bad about the kid or parent because both are awesome persons. I brought it up because I see a trend that I am totally against. Again, this is just my opinion. More and more kids (Mainly Boys) are specializing in one sport and IMO it is because of select sports. Don't have a problem with a kid trying to better themselve but at a 3A school and down you need your best athlete's to play multi-sports. Look at it from a athletic directors standpoint. At a 3A on down if kids specialize then that is taken away from the pool you have to draw from. Well that pool was not very big to begin with. This is the high school coaches lively hood. Performance is based on wins sad but true. Yes, this is about football mainly. 4A and 5A, no big deal they have a large pool to draw from. The 3A and down schools their pool is shrinking and at an alarming rate. Again nothing against select sports, both of my kids played AAU but not at the expense of their high school teams. We are a 3A school by the way. I also know that I am beating a dead horse. ;D ;D

[CraigS]

[quote name="Kris_Gilmore" post="996236" timestamp="1302620651"]
Craig S you might know a lot about softball but don't even have a clue about cross country and track and field.  Don't make a reference about a lot less kids run cross country so it would be easier to get a scholarship.  In the state of Texas more kids on girls side play basketball and track and field than any other sport last time I checked.  They don't give cross country scholarships, they are track and field scholarships.  A university has to field an entire cross country and track and field team with 12.6 scholarships on men's side and 18 on women's.  A track team is ALOT larger than a softball team. Just a little FYI.

I know a girl who signed with a BIG XII school for track and field/cross country who is a TOP 5 runner in her event in the state of texas and signed for a books scholarship.


[/quote]

You see...I can make that comment...because my kid also participates in track with pretty dang good numbers even as a Soph....more than likely could go to college doing it.....SHE chooses softball.

By percentage of girls who play softball at a select level compared to Junior Olympic tract (which she will probably also do this winter) is much higher. And based on the 18 scholarships you mentioned compared to only 12 in softball....with up to 25 players on a roster.....most have 20....the percentage of kids who make it to college as softball players on scholarship are lower than that of those who seek T&F scholarships....


Back on topic then.....if it were an honest mistake.....all the more reason for her to commit to the sport she loves more......unknowing to her or her family (whether they should have know is irrelevant....she didn't) one of the teams was going to have to compete without her.....she committed to both....so she chose her love......good for her and her parents for supporting HER decision.

Back off topic....don't really care if wins and loses matter to their job (and my kid may actually be a coach one day)....all the more reason to work WITH these kids to have them representing the school as often as POSSIBLE....which would help their record more than if they didn't let the kid play at all....which is what they get when they make them choose.

And you are correct...doesn't seem either of us will sway from our beliefs.....but its still fun to express ones opinion and TRY to change your mind....lol

[Kris_Gilmore]

Did you really just say select level compared to Junior Olympics?  No offense but IMO and most HS track coaches summer track is really only beneficial to young athletes and field events.  From a distance coach standpoint I am highly against summer track.  This year we have 3 runners who have signed scholarships to Lamar, McNeese, and UTSA and not one of them has run summer track in the last 6 years.  Softball has 25 on their roster at the college level, whereas  the womens program at Texas A & M Track and Field(Numerous National championships over the last few years)  has 59 on roster just counted.  IT is difficult to get a scholarship no matter the sport.  You also probably don't realize this, but schools like Woodlands and Kingwood have over 70 girls on their high school cross country team.

Also, no offense to your daughter and softball, but last time I checked kids in the United States who play softball don't have to worry about recruiting of foreign athletes.  Have you looked at a college track and field roster lately?

This link will blow your mind when it comes to high school sport participation.  Even after seeing this you will still come up with some reasoning on how I am wrong.  Good luck.

http://www.runohio.com/read_new/high-school-girls-track-field-largest-participatory-sport-and-boys-track-field-second

For those of you who cant see the link:


Participants (Female sports)

1. Track and Field (Outdoor) 457,732

2. Basketball 444,809

3. Volleyball 404,243

4. Softball, Fast Pitch 368,921

5. Soccer 344,534

6. Cross Country 198,199

7. Tennis 177,593

8. Swimming and Diving 158,878

9. Competitive Spirit Squads 117,793

10. Golf 69,223

[Kris_Gilmore]

You also posted this earlier.  Actually I know my AD, Bridge City, and Dayton's have all sent the Cross Country coaches to the Cross Country Coaches association clinic the last few years.  And to be honest it is actually pretty big clinic held last year in Austin over two days.

Another example....when was the last time you heard of a school sending a coaching staff of softball....baseball....soccer...cross country.....track....volleyball.....to a coaches clinic that comes anywhere close to that of which the football coaches go to.

[mfd814]

Unless there is a understanding prior to the season, school should be 1st IMO.  If you will score points and have a chance at Regionals, by all means,  perform at District.  If you have no chance, then play select.  Just depends on what the understanding is prior to the season.

[CraigS]

[quote name="Kris_Gilmore" post="996334" timestamp="1302636504"]
Did you really just say select level compared to Junior Olympics?  No offense but IMO and most HS track coaches summer track is really only beneficial to young athletes and field events.  From a distance coach standpoint I am highly against summer track.  This year we have 3 runners who have signed scholarships to Lamar, McNeese, and UTSA and not one of them has run summer track in the last 6 years.  Softball has 25 on their roster at the college level, whereas  the womens program at Texas A & M Track and Field(Numerous National championships over the last few years)  has 59 on roster just counted.  IT is difficult to get a scholarship no matter the sport.  You also probably don't realize this, but schools like Woodlands and Kingwood have over 70 girls on their high school cross country team.

Also, no offense to your daughter and softball, but last time I checked kids in the United States who play softball don't have to worry about recruiting of foreign athletes.  Have you looked at a college track and field roster lately?

This link will blow your mind when it comes to high school sport participation.  Even after seeing this you will still come up with some reasoning on how I am wrong.  Good luck.

http://www.runohio.com/read_new/high-school-girls-track-field-largest-participatory-sport-and-boys-track-field-second

For those of you who cant see the link:


Participants (Female sports)

1. Track and Field (Outdoor) 457,732

2. Basketball 444,809

3. Volleyball 404,243

4. Softball, Fast Pitch 368,921

5. Soccer 344,534

6. Cross Country 198,199

7. Tennis 177,593

8. Swimming and Diving 158,878

9. Competitive Spirit Squads 117,793

10. Golf 69,223


[/quote]

Yes I did....per the website USA junior Olympic track & field....as compared to ASA Gold Junior olympic softball....maybe the websites lie.......or you know better...

Per your numbers it proves my point...a higher percent of kids get track opportunities than do softball.....track participants are only 20% higher...yet they have 60% more participants....the math is based on YOUR numbers.

Congrats to BC and Dayton's AD's...but a 2 day clinic hardly compares to a week long coaches clinic that football coaches attend.....however I do recognize those AD's for their effort...whereas another AD in the are told theirs schools soccer coach when asked to attend a clinic...to buy a book....to my knowledge the others don't bother asking.