Coaching Staffs Trimmed

[smitty]

In this time of budget crisis, the era of HC's walking up and down the sideline may be over.  They may need to pitch in and  be a position coach.  May need to be the OC or DC.  This way you need only 6 -- possibly 7 max -- coaches.  And no, you don't need 2 OL or DL coaches.

[Gasilla]

[quote name="Coach27" post="997317" timestamp="1302798437"]
So we are going to cut coaches:  these people are the ones that supervise your kids on those EXTRA curricular activities, so now we are going to have less people keeping up with the same amount of kids?  In my opinion, this is not smart. 
Less people to give more attention to your child?
Less people to go the extra mile for your child?
I am not saying that teachers don't do the same, because i know they do.
Coaches spend a whole lot of extra time with their athletes......... and a lot of times serve as more than just a coach to these kids.  I just don't think that they should be the ones that get cut.  That's all i am saying..... it's MY OPINION..... it doesn't have to be yours.
[/quote]

I agree 112%

[scoopno1]

Silsbee had 21 teachers, support staff and administrators take the incentive for early retirement. This included on assistant superintendent. They dismissed nine probationary level teachers. This included a number of teacher coaches. In all about ten coaching slots were involved in various areas from tennis, to soccer to football. Most of these were at the junior high level but a number were at the varsity level.
A number of these people coached in more than one area so it was not ten different coaches. The situation could have been much worse but the administration in Silsbee made some pretty severe cutbacks a few years ago. They probably would have had to cut more but a larger than expected number of staff members took the incentive for early retirement.

[smitty]

Again. in time of budget crisis, you CUT extra curricular activities.  This takes care of your concern.  This saved expense would more than likely save a teacher.  You know -- the most IMPORTANT employee there! 


[quote name="Coach27" post="997317" timestamp="1302798437"]
So we are going to cut coaches:  these people are the ones that supervise your kids on those EXTRA curricular activities, so now we are going to have less people keeping up with the same amount of kids?  In my opinion, this is not smart. 
Less people to give more attention to your child?
Less people to go the extra mile for your child?
I am not saying that teachers don't do the same, because i know they do.
Coaches spend a whole lot of extra time with their athletes......... and a lot of times serve as more than just a coach to these kids.  I just don't think that they should be the ones that get cut.  That's all i am saying..... it's MY OPINION..... it doesn't have to be yours.
[/quote]

[The Icon]

Having been involved with organized football (Small Private HS all the way to College) my entire life, I can tell you a few things about running a successful program. Most coaches now a days are teachers. And admins aren't holding onto coaches who have low TAKS or PDAS (Appraisal) scores. I spoke with a very successful AD/HC in our area about 5 years ago, and he told me the era of the Coach who does PE only is over. If you want to coach, you better be able to teach something.

As long as you have coaches who can teach, effectively, then your staff can stay near to the size it has bee. Budget cuts are going to find staffs regardless. But if coaches are certified in a core subject, they'll be fine.

Smitty, you don't know the first thing about running a successful program. I would LOVE for you and one other person to control 80 hyped up 14 yr olds for an hour lol! Or organize and run a productive practice with 150 kids with 6 coaches! WON'T WORK!!

[smitty]

I know for a FACT that 6-7 coaches has worked in the past.  And SUCCESSFULLY I might add.  You, and others, obviously, are caught up in what has been recently done by some school districts and presume this is the norm.  This is what you, and others, are used to.  It may have gotten that way.  But it never needed to.  Example:  Like some here thinks it's absolutely necessary to have 2 OL and 2 DL coaches. This is a WANT not a need!!  
If a teacher coaches, that's fine.  But if extra money is payed for coaching then no, you don't need to pay that extra money during budget crisis.  
Godfather, have not yet heard you say how to solve the budget crisis of our different school districts. Would like to hear your solutions.


[quote name="The Godfather" post="998312" timestamp="1302960323"]
Having been involved with organized football (Small Private HS all the way to College) my entire life, I can tell you a few things about running a successful program. Most coaches now a days are teachers. And admins aren't holding onto coaches who have low TAKS or PDAS (Appraisal) scores. I spoke with a very successful AD/HC in our area about 5 years ago, and he told me the era of the Coach who does PE only is over. If you want to coach, you better be able to teach something.

As long as you have coaches who can teach, effectively, then your staff can stay near to the size it has bee. Budget cuts are going to find staffs regardless. But if coaches are certified in a core subject, they'll be fine.

Smitty, you don't know the first thing about running a successful program. I would LOVE for you and one other person to control 80 hyped up 14 yr olds for an hour lol! Or organize and run a productive practice with 150 kids with 6 coaches! WON'T WORK!!
[/quote]

[The Icon]

For starters, if you want to cut down on budget. You'll need to get the old out. People who've been teaching for 25/30+ years, sitting on those jobs that younger people with modern teaching methods could have. You'll be shaving from 10-20k per new teacher you hire, and retiree you let go (or volunteers to retire [given incentive]).

The districts are top heavy in admin positions. You have some positions in some bigger districts that are superfulous and uneccesary. You don't need a Math/Science/Soc Studies/ELA 'Coach' to work with teachers to work with kids. Have teachers meet a given number of development hours outside of school, rather than pay this 'coach' 60/70/80k dollars to work with the teachers. The Dept Heads of each core subject should be savvy enough to help their colleagues.

If we're going to be investing all this money in technology for our schools, teachers need to utilize it. $3000 projecters being used for Smart Boards/Mimios don't do anygood if the teacher/instructor doesn't know how or refuses to use it.


You have some districts where every admin has a DAMN iPhone, paid for by the district.



These might not answer all problems, but it is a start.

[smitty]

Agreed!! 


[quote name="The Godfather" post="998373" timestamp="1302969049"]
For starters, if you want to cut down on budget. You'll need to get the old out. People who've been teaching for 25/30+ years, sitting on those jobs that younger people with modern teaching methods could have. You'll be shaving from 10-20k per new teacher you hire, and retiree you let go (or volunteers to retire [given incentive]).

The districts are top heavy in admin positions. You have some positions in some bigger districts that are superfulous and uneccesary. You don't need a Math/Science/Soc Studies/ELA 'Coach' to work with teachers to work with kids. Have teachers meet a given number of development hours outside of school, rather than pay this 'coach' 60/70/80k dollars to work with the teachers. The Dept Heads of each core subject should be savvy enough to help their colleagues.

If we're going to be investing all this money in technology for our schools, teachers need to utilize it. $3000 projecters being used for Smart Boards/Mimios don't do anygood if the teacher/instructor doesn't know how or refuses to use it.


You have some districts where every admin has a dang iPhone, paid for by the district.



These might not answer all problems, but it is a start.
[/quote]

[True Blue]

OK let me get this stright, You wont to force out the teaches that have been there for 20 to 25 yrs?? This means that a person that has spent their whole life doing one job will now have to go back out in the open job market, with only teaching experance, and find a new job??? Now remember these people are only 45 to 50 years old???  Thats what you wont??? You must be very young or just a fool.

[Guest Penny]

So Smitty, you want coaches and advisors(coaches) of extra cirricular activities to work all those hours for free?  This is America, you're the one with the eagle on your profile.  I'd figure you for an honest day's pay for an honest day's work kind of guy.  You want those folks to just give us their time without being compensated?  Basically, you're talking about taking from them to give to everyone else, other teachers and taxpayers included.  That doesn't seem to be what the political movement this country is experiencing is all about... does it?  You seem to express yourself overall in that light, but now you want people to work without compensation? Or do you have other ideas for sports and extra-cirricular activities?  Help explain.  I'd figure you for more of a free market kind of guy.  Where the best at what they do have the "OPPORTUNITY" to get what they work for and deserve?  Am I wrong? And don't get caught up on Nederland, I'm talking about period, what's your philosophy here?

I'm not disagreeing that everyone has to pitch in during times of crisis.  There are budget issues that have to be dealt with.  You can't spend what you don't have, I get and support that 100%.  But a solution that involves taking money away from people who are working, seems UnAmerican.  You want answers to the budget problem?  Reduce the costs it takes to maintain your facilities so we can spend more of the income on people doing the educating?  How do we reduce costs on maintaining the facilities???? I'm also for looking at how to optimize numbers in all areas.  You can't just cut teachers, I'd look just as hard at cutting administration if tough choices have to be made.  And Godfather, you may think differently about your statement if you were 48 years old.  Some of those 48 / 50 year olders are more up to speed on technology that the kids coming out of college.  Just because you can facebook, that doesn't make you better than a 48/50 year old teacher.  Teaching is about communicating.  Great teachers could do it with a Big Chief tablet or an interractive computer system.  It's about performance, not age, at least in my book.

[The Icon]

My statement was geared more toward 55+

Sorry, if I hurt your feeling. But if you want to cut cost, that's how you cut cost. Its a matter of numbers. I'm not saying its my favorite idea, but some people who been teaching for 30+ years don't let go of jobs. For a LONG time

[True Blue]

[quote name="The Godfather" post="998419" timestamp="1302974802"]
My statement was geared more toward 55+

Sorry, if I hurt your feeling. But if you want to cut cost, that's how you cut cost. Its a matter of numbers. I'm not saying its my favorite idea, but some people who been teaching for 30+ years don't let go of jobs. For a LONG time
[/quote] OK your 55 and out of work?? You have 25 more years to live?? I guess you could just you move under a bridge and get a sign that reads 55 and put out to pasture??? Why would anyone wont to be a teacher with that to look forward to. You must be part of the TeaParty??? But you could always be a greeter at WalMart :D Just remember your getting older every day and one day this will be you that is being put out >:(

[smitty]

Ok, True Blue, offer your suggestions on how districts should deal with the budget crisis they have.


[quote name="True Blue" post="998431" timestamp="1302976333"]
[quote author=The Godfather link=topic=82980.msg998419#msg998419 date=1302974802]
My statement was geared more toward 55+

Sorry, if I hurt your feeling. But if you want to cut cost, that's how you cut cost. Its a matter of numbers. I'm not saying its my favorite idea, but some people who been teaching for 30+ years don't let go of jobs. For a LONG time
[/quote] OK your 55 and out of work?? You have 25 more years to live?? I guess you could just you move under a bridge and get a sign that reads 55 and put out to pasture??? Why would anyone wont to be a teacher with that to look forward to. You must be part of the TeaParty??? But you could always be a greeter at WalMart :D Just remember your getting older every day and one day this will be you that is being put out >:(
[/quote]

[smitty]

No, you misunderstood me.  I said if we have to pay them to coach, which we do, then you limit the amount of coaches you have.  6-7, if I recall saying.  You keep the teachers and trim the extracurricular activities and coaches if need be. 
You are right, I am a free market capitalist. 


[quote name="Penny" post="998415" timestamp="1302974361"]
So Smitty, you want coaches and advisors(coaches) of extra cirricular activities to work all those hours for free?  This is America, you're the one with the eagle on your profile.  I'd figure you for an honest day's pay for an honest day's work kind of guy.  You want those folks to just give us their time without being compensated?  Basically, you're talking about taking from them to give to everyone else, other teachers and taxpayers included.  That doesn't seem to be what the political movement this country is experiencing is all about... does it?  You seem to express yourself overall in that light, but now you want people to work without compensation? Or do you have other ideas for sports and extra-cirricular activities?  Help explain.  I'd figure you for more of a free market kind of guy.  Where the best at what they do have the "OPPORTUNITY" to get what they work for and deserve?  Am I wrong? And don't get caught up on Nederland, I'm talking about period, what's your philosophy here?

I'm not disagreeing that everyone has to pitch in during times of crisis.  There are budget issues that have to be dealt with.  You can't spend what you don't have, I get and support that 100%.  But a solution that involves taking money away from people who are working, seems UnAmerican.  You want answers to the budget problem?  Reduce the costs it takes to maintain your facilities so we can spend more of the income on people doing the educating?  How do we reduce costs on maintaining the facilities???? I'm also for looking at how to optimize numbers in all areas.  You can't just cut teachers, I'd look just as hard at cutting administration if tough choices have to be made.  And Godfather, you may think differently about your statement if you were 48 years old.  Some of those 48 / 50 year olders are more up to speed on technology that the kids coming out of college.  Just because you can facebook, that doesn't make you better than a 48/50 year old teacher.  Teaching is about communicating.  Great teachers could do it with a Big Chief tablet or an interractive computer system.  It's about performance, not age, at least in my book.
[/quote]

[shermdog]

[quote name="The Godfather" post="998419" timestamp="1302974802"]
My statement was geared more toward 55+

Sorry, if I hurt your feeling. But if you want to cut cost, that's how you cut cost. Its a matter of numbers. I'm not saying its my favorite idea, but some people who been teaching for 30+ years don't let go of jobs. For a LONG time
[/quote]

FYI a 30 year teacher is only 52 or 53 in most cases.  Still to early for retirement.

Many times, those 30+ year teachers are the mentor teachers that help the younger teachers.  

I have seen districts go through and package those older teachers out.  The budget looks good, but the discipline starts to erode with a bunch of inexperienced teachers.  It takes most people a couple of years under their belt to really get to be comfortable in the classroom.  You have to have that mix.  Been there done that.

Here is the thing, when funding was basically frozen in 2006, Most schools have had to trim the fat.  They have been cutting for 5 years.  They are running out of things to cut. You have to have somebody to maintain the facilities, as well as teach the kids.   I have not seen anyone come up to volunteer to cut the grass, fix  the leak or paint the walls.

[True Blue]

OK this might not be the right site for this but you asked.. First Slick Rick, has to tap into the rainy day fund, because these are the rainy days, Then they are going to have to raise taxes, well not so much as raise them just roll back the tax cuts that were given to the top 1%.. Lets not forget Mobil Exxon Made 30 BILLION in Profet last year. And that only one oil company.  Does anyone realy beleave they need a TAX BREAK??? And that is just ONE of the oil companys that punp oil from under ground in TEXAS>>> We are the largest oil producer in the United States ... I think they can pay their fair share ...We have lost tax revenew due to the poor ecom. But in that same  poor ecom. the oil companys have made record profites..

[smitty]

There would be some that would disagree that schools have been highly efficient with tax dollars over that past 5 years.  Like, for instance, building million dollar football stadiums!! 


[quote name="shermdog" post="998446" timestamp="1302977950"]
[quote author=The Godfather link=topic=82980.msg998419#msg998419 date=1302974802]
My statement was geared more toward 55+

Sorry, if I hurt your feeling. But if you want to cut cost, that's how you cut cost. Its a matter of numbers. I'm not saying its my favorite idea, but some people who been teaching for 30+ years don't let go of jobs. For a LONG time
[/quote]

FYI a 30 year teacher is only 52 or 53 in most cases.  Still to early for retirement.

Many times, those 30+ year teachers are the mentor teachers that help the younger teachers.  

I have seen districts go through and package those older teachers out.  The budget looks good, but the discipline starts to erode with a bunch of inexperienced teachers.  It takes most people a couple of years under their belt to really get to be comfortable in the classroom.  You have to have that mix.  Been there done that.

Here is the thing, when funding was basically frozen in 2006, Most schools have had to trim the fat.  They have been cutting for 5 years.  They are running out of things to cut. You have to have somebody to maintain the facilities, as well as teach the kids.   I have not seen anyone come up to volunteer to cut the grass, fix  the leak or paint the walls.


[/quote]

[mat]

Some things to think about

For many districts during poor economic times, offering an incentive for retirement is a very good option. It gives older employees incentive pay to retire when they were considering retirement in the next few years anyway. Not only do you reduce top end salaries, it prevents the district from having to make as many layoffs of lowered salaried teachers and allows those with other options to leave by choice rather than force those with no options. In the end you have reduced your salary budget.

Many 30+ year teachers chose full retirement and pursue other employment anyway. Experience on the campus and in the classroom in invaluable but don’t underestimate the power and leadership of teachers with 5, 10, 15 and more years of experience.

[True Blue]

There would be some that would disagree that schools have been highly efficient with tax dollars over that past 5 years.  Like, for instance, building million dollar football stadiums!!  
[color=blue]Would this be the same Dist. that payes their Super. the highest salary in the State Of Texas, and supplys there maintance men F350 King Ranch Trucks. To drive back form the bars or give out Million Dollars contracts to their Electrion friends.. Is that the Dist your talking about?????? :o :o[/color]

[smitty]

No, but you are right!  Not very efficient!  I was talking about PN-G's 10 million dollar stadium!  

[quote name="True Blue" post="998495" timestamp="1302987069"]
There would be some that would disagree that schools have been highly efficient with tax dollars over that past 5 years.  Like, for instance, building million dollar football stadiums!!  
[color=blue]Would this be the same Dist. that payes their Super. the highest salary in the State Of Texas, and supplys there maintance men F350 King Ranch Trucks. To drive back form the bars or give out Million Dallars contracts to their Electrion friends.. Is that the Dist your talking about?????? :o :o[/color]
[/quote]

[Tiger90]

Stadiums and new schools are bonds not the root or cause to the crisis.  If you want some incite check this site out www.texasisd.com. The financial situation is based on a 2006 property tax rollback followed by a then new business tax that did not meet projections and backfill the property tax cuts.  Strayhorn predicted and warned Perry in 06 that there would be a 26 billion shortfall and she was right.  This is not on the back of school districts but rather Perry and the legislature.  My prediction is a special session and further tapping of the rainy day thus allowing the newly elected legislators an opportunity to save face.

[bobbymcgee]

Football is a violent contact sport. The fewer coaches you have, the fewer supervision there is if something goes wrong. I do not see how anybody would be for coaching cutbacks because it means less supervision for our children out there in practice and in games.
If the state is going to cut school funding then they should allow non-school employees to volunteer and coach. the coaches may not like it and are probably happy that little johnny's dad can't join the staff right now because he is not a school employee. But the more coaches that get cut, the less supervision and instruction our kids get. I think the UIL should rethink its policy in these rough times.

[The Icon]

Rick Perry

I'm not sure who said it, but get him out. Whomever called me Tea Party couldn't be farther!

I'd love to keep those 30+ year people! Their the basis of our education system. They've been there, done that. I'm just showing you where you could cut cost!

I believe I told you I'm not the biggest fan of that!!!

[shermdog]

This information comes from this website:  http://www.whatsyournumbertx.com/

This is the amount funded by the state to each district.  This does not include any abatement that a district may give and receive money in leiu of taxes.

Anahuac 5100
Barbers Hill 7111
Beaumont 5586
Bridge City 5083
Buna  4886
Burkville 4824
Cleveland 5056
Coldspring 5306
Crosby 5181
Dayton 5371
Deweyville 5450
East Chambers 4987
Evadale 5706
Hamshire Fannett 5286
Hardin 5368
Hardin Jefferson 5783
High Island 5929
Hull Daisetta 5700
Jasper 4962
Kirbyville 4866
Kountze 4771
Liberty 5305
LCM 4996
Lumberton 5141
Nederland 4994
Newton 4873
Orangefield 4813
Port Arthur 5775
PNG 5415
Silsbee 5023
Spurger 4908
Warren 5380
West Hardin 5008
WOS 5183
Woodville 6245

Now lets make a simple comparison assuming the state holds true to a 10% cut of funding(could be more).  Kountze would lose Approx $470 per student, reducung their funding to about $4300 per student.  Barbers Hill would lose $710 dropping their funding to $6400 per student. I picked these schools since they were the top and bottom of the area.
 
And this is what the schools are being told.  10 % is manageable to some and devestating to others.

Good Management is not always the reason one school is better off than another.  Sometiomes you just have more money to work with.

BTW Westbrook ISD receives $13144 per student.  Why?

[smitty]

Bonds have to be paid by tax dollars in some form or another.  This money could be used to hire another teacher.  Or make NECESSARY repairs to existing schools.  Priorities, people!!


[quote name="Tiger90" post="998524" timestamp="1302991720"]
Stadiums and new schools are bonds not the root or cause to the crisis.  If you want some incite check this site out www.texasisd.com. The financial situation is based on a 2006 property tax rollback followed by a then new business tax that did not meet projections and backfill the property tax cuts.  Strayhorn predicted and warned Perry in 06 that there would be a 26 billion shortfall and she was right.  This is not on the back of school districts but rather Perry and the legislature.  My prediction is a special session and further tapping of the rainy day thus allowing the newly elected legislators an opportunity to save face.
[/quote]