2 Pro-Bonders Fall!!

[dawgnut]

Hey I looked in the "New Nederland Standard Dictionary" under teacher, and it said "Not smitty" and you being the most enlightened one amongst us, what gives?

[Guest Penny]

Sorry, I must need more educatin Smitty.  Education is about more than proving Geometry Theorems, Conjugating Verbs, and finishing Combustion Reactions.  Yep, I got all that, did pretty good at it, but nothing.... NOTHING...... could have prepared me for the freakin grind of daily competition in the workplace like the EDUCATION I got competing in the ATHLETICS you want to get rid of.  I'm very sorry, but this isn't up for discussion, it's not up for compromise, you do away with this aspect of EDUCATION and it's the beginning of the end for our society as a whole.  As Americans, we created this way of life because we would not back down, when most nutted up, we found a way to win.... we COMPETED.  We are also Innovative and willing to take risks, which means we're willing to fail at times.  But we get back up... because we know how to COMPETE.  This is a LEARNED skill, COMPETING, you get better at it the more times you are faced with situations that demand it.   Smitty, please TEACH me, please EDUCATE me on how we do this without a Complete and Balanced EDUCATION.  I'm sure you'll have a question for me, that's how you compete, you dodge, which I guess is a form of competing, it works for Switzerland.  

We're going to pass a bond that builds new schools.  And, we're going to maintain the athletic program that provides the complete education our kids deserve.  Will we find ways to do things more efficiently and productively... I hope so, that is also an American trait, we are the most productive society on the planet.  You have three choices.  Hop on this bus, get the heck out of our community, or stick around and whine your butt off as you think you're 'teaching' us.

[quote name="smitty" post="1015272" timestamp="1306791075"]
Education is number one priority.  It appears that you don't believe this.    ???  
PS -- Smite back at you!      ;)

[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1014490#msg1014490 date=1306468826]
Look, now we know where Smitty's coming from.  He's on a SPORTS website prodding all us idiots to get rid of extracirriculars... "sports"... football, so we can build our schools.  That's what he's said.  That's what he is.  Nederland needs to tell our kids to quit competing, sit in algebra, and watch everyone else be all they can be, learning to compete in sports with their education.  Our kids don't get to do that, it's the responsible thing to do.  That's his solution for you Nederlanders.  Suck it up, you can't have the best, you can't even have good.  You can't give your kids what they deserve.  They can't have a complete education.  Smitty has spoken.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[smitty]

You do need to expand your universe.  Again, the teaching never stops!!    ;)


[quote name="dawgnut" post="1015556" timestamp="1306887985"]
Hey I looked in the "New Nederland Standard Dictionary" under teacher, and it said "Not smitty" and you being the most enlightened one amongst us, what gives?
[/quote]

[smitty]

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with extra-curricular activities if you can.  But when it comes down to crunch time, then we must think outside the box.  Your idea of "nutting up" is to raise taxes first.  That's the easy way out.  No guts there!  But it's detrimental to the community in the long run.  Maybe the traditional thinkers like you is what got us in this situation.
Everything you want done, what's the price tag?  2 pro-bonders just got booted from the school board.  Yes, maybe people are actually concerned and are thinking outside the box.  Traditional thinkers may have to sit on the sidelines and learn.  But, I'll say again, for what you want spending-wise, put this bond amount on the ballot and let the people decide!!  I'll go with their decision!  Maybe!    ;)


[quote name="Penny" post="1015611" timestamp="1306899958"]
Sorry, I must need more educatin Smitty.  Education is about more than proving Geometry Theorems, Conjugating Verbs, and finishing Combustion Reactions.  Yep, I got all that, did pretty good at it, but nothing.... NOTHING...... could have prepared me for the freakin grind of daily competition in the workplace like the EDUCATION I got competing in the ATHLETICS you want to get rid of.  I'm very sorry, but this isn't up for discussion, it's not up for compromise, you do away with this aspect of EDUCATION and it's the beginning of the end for our society as a whole.  As Americans, we created this way of life because we would not back down, when most nutted up, we found a way to win.... we COMPETED.  We are also Innovative and willing to take risks, which means we're willing to fail at times.  But we get back up... because we know how to COMPETE.  This is a LEARNED skill, COMPETING, you get better at it the more times you are faced with situations that demand it.   Smitty, please TEACH me, please EDUCATE me on how we do this without a Complete and Balanced EDUCATION.  I'm sure you'll have a question for me, that's how you compete, you dodge, which I guess is a form of competing, it works for Switzerland.  

We're going to pass a bond that builds new schools.  And, we're going to maintain the athletic program that provides the complete education our kids deserve.  Will we find ways to do things more efficiently and productively... I hope so, that is also an American trait, we are the most productive society on the planet.  You have three choices.  Hop on this bus, get the heck out of our community, or stick around and whine your butt off as you think you're 'teaching' us.

[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1015272#msg1015272 date=1306791075]
Education is number one priority.  It appears that you don't believe this.    ???  
PS -- Smite back at you!      ;)

[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1014490#msg1014490 date=1306468826]
Look, now we know where Smitty's coming from.  He's on a SPORTS website prodding all us idiots to get rid of extracirriculars... "sports"... football, so we can build our schools.  That's what he's said.  That's what he is.  Nederland needs to tell our kids to quit competing, sit in algebra, and watch everyone else be all they can be, learning to compete in sports with their education.  Our kids don't get to do that, it's the responsible thing to do.  That's his solution for you Nederlanders.  Suck it up, you can't have the best, you can't even have good.  You can't give your kids what they deserve.  They can't have a complete education.  Smitty has spoken.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

[Guest Penny]

Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is. 

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.

[Guest The-NHS]

[quote name="Penny" post="1016067" timestamp="1307074233"]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is. 

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]

I already brought this up. Its obvious he is clearly just trying to get a rise from you and is winning. He doesn't understand that the athletic budget would not translate into any improvements and just maintenance (or prevention of collapse!). His argument will be that the 1.7 million could be used to save jobs which still doesn't solve the need for new facilities. Its a lose lose situation. He isn't logical and doesn't understand the need to invest in our community. Too many people willing to accept mediocrity their whole lives....

[James Mosley]

Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.

[smitty]

1.7 mill is a lot of money.  Wonder how many teachers we could hire for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;)
PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know?


[quote name="Penny" post="1016067" timestamp="1307074233"]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is. 

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]

[mat]

[quote name="smitty" post="1016223" timestamp="1307142862"]
1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;)
PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know?


[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.  

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question.

Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers?

[Guest Penny]

Good point Mat, you don't need more teachers at that point, you need less, so you're laying off. And the $1.7MM/yr would be put toward the 40-50 MM that needs to be put into these olds schools to keep them upright, you don't get both.  Again, it sounds noble this "out of the box" approach, but there will be no reason to hire at that point, and the bottom line is it's his type of thinking that has us where we are.  The approach that will not invest for growth, it's a backward thinking approach versus a forward thinking.  Why do you get to call it out of the box to shrink and cut... hell that's easy.  It's easy to quit things, shut em down, that takes no out of the box thinking, just an axe.  Building something up, now that takes out of the box thinking, but hey, that's what WINNERS do.

[smitty]

Thanks for reminding me.  I'll check it.
You hire more teachers BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT STUDENTS GO TO SCHOOL FOR!!  How can you in good conscious pour money into something like extra-curricular activities and at the same time lay off teachers??


[quote name="mat" post="1016247" timestamp="1307152254"]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016223#msg1016223 date=1307142862]
1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;)
PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know?


[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.  

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question.

Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers?

[/quote]

[mat]

[quote name="smitty" post="1016259" timestamp="1307153882"]
Thanks for reminding me.  I'll check it.
You hire more teachers BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT STUDENTS GO TO SCHOOL FOR!!  How can you in good conscious pour money into something like extra-curricular activities and at the same time lay off teachers??


[quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1016247#msg1016247 date=1307152254]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016223#msg1016223 date=1307142862]
1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;)
PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know?


[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.  

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question.

Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers?

[/quote]
[/quote]

So its OK to over-staff by hiring more teachers?

[smitty]

It's not OK to over staff anything.  let's start from the beginning.  In a crunch the first, and easy, thing to do is lay off teachers.  With 1.7 mill this does not need to be done.  Now if 1.7 mill is available and you feel you have the right teacher/student ratio then no, no need to over staff.  then you look at other areas to use this money for.  But you DO NOT cut teachers first!!  Only those with blinders on to change would advocate such a thing.

[quote name="mat" post="1016276" timestamp="1307156023"]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016259#msg1016259 date=1307153882]
Thanks for reminding me.  I'll check it.
You hire more teachers BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT STUDENTS GO TO SCHOOL FOR!!  How can you in good conscious pour money into something like extra-curricular activities and at the same time lay off teachers??


[quote author=mat link=topic=84302.msg1016247#msg1016247 date=1307152254]
[quote author=smitty link=topic=84302.msg1016223#msg1016223 date=1307142862]
1.7 mill is a lot of money.  [size=12pt][b]Wonder how many teachers we could hire[/b][/size] for what's REALLY important?  It's amazing how the status qua always wins for some.  I guess because it's easy!!    ;)
PS -- I've got another question.  Thinking outside the box.  What is the maintenance budget fir NISD.  How many employees are there in this department.  Anyone know?


[quote author=Penny link=topic=84302.msg1016067#msg1016067 date=1307074233]
Okay, let's do this, let's cut the $1.7MM in extra cirriculars from the budget, and start making the necessary REPAIRS to 50 and 60 year old buildings.  In about 15 years or so, we'll have PATCHED these facilities up to a reasonable standard.... keep in mind, you're tens of millions spent and you haven't made a single IMPROVEMENT, you've only kept it from falling down around you.  All the while, anyone under the age of 60 who can get out of Nederland, will have done so, and NOBODY will be moving in to this town, because it still has OLD OUTDATED facilities and NO programs to kids who want to be ALL THEY CAN BE... we're just teaching Algebra and Conjugation at this point.  Now we have 70 and 80 year old facilities that we've MAINTAINED by cutting the programs that offer our kids a chance to enhance their education.  We've got OLD OUTDATED facilities, a shrinking tax base, plummeting property values, crime on the rise.... but thank God we didn't raise taxes a couple of hundred bucks.  Now you tell me, who needs to change their thinking here... who's the freakin IDIOT... cuz one of us is.  

We pay the LOWEST tax rate in the area, I'm not going to WHINE and CRY because I have to pay for services rendered.  I'm not going to be a FREELOADER with absolutely NO VISION.  The bond that was proposed would've put us in a respectable tax rate compared to the rest of the area, not the highest.  Your ATTEMPT to paint this as a Government attempt to RAISE taxes is LAUGHABLE.  This isn't Washington, we get to see and DIRECTLY reap the benefits of the money that we contribute.  I know this is tough for you to diffentiate.  If you could enlightena and teach me on the points made above and how those are incorrect, I'm listening.  But the fact is that what you suggest WILL END this community.  End of Discussion.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Bandkid posted the link of the NISD budget. Quit asking questions and do some of the research yourself like you do on political topics. I know; its just easier to ask the question.

Answer this. If you cut extracurricular and save (according to you, which probably too high) $1.7 million, why would you hire more teachers?

[/quote]
[/quote]

So its OK to over-staff by hiring more teachers?
[/quote]

[KDOSullivan]

[quote name="James Mosley" post="1016084" timestamp="1307094689"]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="KDOSullivan" post="1016315" timestamp="1307194088"]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

Ditto. A student transferred from Nederland to PN-G this year. Within three weeks, he dropped his two AP classes and he was gone a month later. The whole time, he talked about how much harder it was here and he always needed help to understand the work, even on the reviews. The sad part is that he's not the only student to come to PN-G and end up in that situation, and they're not just from Nederland.

[Guest The-NHS]

I must accept that I will never understand people such as smitty.
I must accept that I will never understand people that accept mediocrity.

Smitty, the current situation in nederland isd sucks. Our academics have fallen, we have an open door enrollment policy, and our facilities are well out of date. You have proposed to eliminate extra curriculars in our school district saving 1.7 million dollars. I'm not even going to explain all of the benefits that extra curriculars provide for students. You say we need to cut them because we need to tighten the budget in times of crisis etc tough times call for tough measures yada yada. With the 1.7 million dollars, you propose we keep teachers and do maintenance on all of our buildings...with 1.7 million dollars. Do you even realize how small of amount of money that is in comparison to the needed upgrades to our facilities? It would not even put a dent in it. This is the small minded thinking that is currently hurting Nederland and I thank God that you do not have a position to push this type of logic (even though there are people in position that think this way that we need to get out).
I don't understand your acceptance of nederland going to crap. I just don't get it. Why would you not want to pass a bond to build new schools for our students? Why would you want to eliminate athletics, band, choir, etc.? These extracurriculars are a PART of learning. We have a relatively low tax rate in comparison to area school districts. I see no problem in investing for the future of our community. Not only would passing a bond provide top notch schools and a better atmosphere for learning, it would revive the pride that was once in our community, teachers, and students. If you and parts of our community are ok with mediocrity then you should expect the same from our teachers and students.
Maybe you haven't been to the high school lately. Maybe you haven't been to the elementaries or middle schools. So MAYBE your thinking is clouded because you haven't seen first hand what kind of shape everything is in.

[dawgnut]

[quote name="PN-G bandkid" post="1016336" timestamp="1307205173"]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

Ditto. A student transferred from Nederland to PN-G this year. Within three weeks, he dropped his two AP classes and he was gone a month later. The whole time, he talked about how much harder it was here and he always needed help to understand the work, even on the reviews. The sad part is that he's not the only student to come to PN-G and end up in that situation, and they're not just from Nederland.
[/quote]

That's why on awards night for seniors every year we have so many major university's giving out 4 year rides, I'm sure it's because they want to dumb down their enrollment ;D 

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016407" timestamp="1307220004"]
[quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1016336#msg1016336 date=1307205173]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

Ditto. A student transferred from Nederland to PN-G this year. Within three weeks, he dropped his two AP classes and he was gone a month later. The whole time, he talked about how much harder it was here and he always needed help to understand the work, even on the reviews. The sad part is that he's not the only student to come to PN-G and end up in that situation, and they're not just from Nederland.
[/quote]

That's why on awards night for seniors every year we have so many major university's giving out 4 year rides, I'm sure it's because they want to dumb down their enrollment ;D   
[/quote]

They just feel sorry for Nederland students. They know they want out of Nederland and are just trying to help. ;) :D

[KDOSullivan]

[quote name="dawgnut" post="1016407" timestamp="1307220004"]
[quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1016336#msg1016336 date=1307205173]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

Ditto. A student transferred from Nederland to PN-G this year. Within three weeks, he dropped his two AP classes and he was gone a month later. The whole time, he talked about how much harder it was here and he always needed help to understand the work, even on the reviews. The sad part is that he's not the only student to come to PN-G and end up in that situation, and they're not just from Nederland.
[/quote]

That's why on awards night for seniors every year we have so many major university's giving out 4 year rides, I'm sure it's because they want to dumb down their enrollment ;D   
[/quote]

There is something wrong with Nederland, there really is. When our son was born years ago and we moved back to this area, our top choice school districts were PNG, Orangefield, LC-M, and Nederland. We wound up in LCM basically because we got more property than living in Mid-County. I'm sorry, but after I have taught a number of kids who came from Nederland and they enrolled in my AP classes and couldn't hang, well, there is something wrong.
dawgnut, percentage wise, all schools wind up with about the same number of full scholarship kids. I wonder from time to time how much politics is involved in these scholarships? Look, our top 15 kids got a ride to a 4 year school, and we only walked in the low 80s. ( And many of the others got some form of scholarship.)

[smitty]

Maybe, like ol' Smitty has been saying, too much emphasis has been put on non-priority things!  I remember a couple of years ago we gave the HC a 17,000 dollar raise because he threaten to go to LaMarque.  We didn't really have the money but it was given anyway.  Foolish decision!  Would they have done the same for a teacher that threatens to leave?  I think not! 
So, if KDOSullivan is right, the people with blinders on, like NHS and Penny -- you'll become a dollar one day! -- will understand that what they believe is causing NISD to become just mediocre academically! 

[quote name="KDOSullivan" post="1016315" timestamp="1307194088"]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

[PN-G bamatex]

[quote name="smitty" post="1016425" timestamp="1307225483"]
Maybe, like ol' Smitty has been saying, too much emphasis has been put on non-priority things!  I remember a couple of years ago we gave the HC a 17,000 dollar raise because he threaten to go to LaMarque.  We didn't really have the money but it was given anyway.  Foolish decision!  Would they have done the same for a teacher that threatens to leave?  I think not!  
So, if KDOSullivan is right, the people with blinders on, like NHS and Penny -- you'll become a dollar one day! -- will understand that what they believe is causing NISD to become just mediocre academically!  

[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]
[/quote]

No, the extracurricular budget doesn't have anything to do with it. Nederland is hurting academically because, frankly, Nederland's policies allow it. For instance, exemption policies at Nederland allow students to exempt a mid-term or final with as low as a 70 average and I believe all Nederland students, underclassmen included, are allowed to exempt all classes all of the time as long as that requirement is met. PN-G, on the other hand, only allows underclassmen to exempt three classes per semester without repeating an exemption in a class for the second semester (with special circumstances applying to math and science classes based on TAKS scores) and only allows students to exempt classes in which their averages are at 80 or above.

Another difference between NISD and other districts is the condition of facilities. Students tend to focus better and give more effort in clean, well-kept environments. As has been said a dozen or so times in this thread alone, Nederland's schools are in bad shape. That has an effect on student morale and focus. Examples of this concept can be found by comparing NISD with districts that have kept their facilities in good shape over the years and even within NISD itself; Nederland's academics have fallen behind while NISD's band and theatre groups have excelled in their new facilities.

Another factor in academic success is extracurricular participation. Studies have shown that students who participate in extracurricular activities have better grades, better conduct, and a higher level of focus than students who do not. Although NISD does have some award-winning extracurricular programs, such as the band and Westernaires, NISD's extracurricular groups are not as big or as numerous as those of many other schools of similar size. I would argue (and bear in mind that this is an outside perspective) that about half of NHS students participate in at least one extracurricular activity - a portion which could be much larger if the right steps were taken.

Standards and curriculum difficulty also come into play. I know that Nederland's chapter of the National Honors Society grants automatic membership to anyone with a 3.75 GPA or higher. Other schools typically add in an application process of some sort that requires a demonstration of leadership, community service, and success in areas outside of academics; special considerations are also normally given to students in honors classes. Curriculum comes into play in that it appears (again, outside perspective) that NISD has settled for the minimum state requirements. The student that transferred into PN-G that I mentioned earlier talked about how he had never seen many of the things in our reviews and even said at one point that he had written more in our English classes in the two months he was here than he had the whole previous year at Nederland; considering what we had done in those classes up to that point, I feel certain that Nederland is settling for the state minimum providing that he was a good example of Nederland's average honors student. Typically, schools establish a district curriculum that exceeds the state requirements, and they also normally provide extra curriculum resources (NISD may or may not provide them, I'm not sure).

Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.

And for the record, Nederland's revenues may not be as high as PN-G's, but we're a Chapter 41 district. After the state takes our money away each year, we actually have less to work with than NISD.

[dawgnut]

[quote name="KDOSullivan" post="1016420" timestamp="1307223406"]
[quote author=dawgnut link=topic=84302.msg1016407#msg1016407 date=1307220004]
[quote author=PN-G bandkid link=topic=84302.msg1016336#msg1016336 date=1307205173]
[quote author=KDOSullivan link=topic=84302.msg1016315#msg1016315 date=1307194088]
[quote author=James Mosley link=topic=84302.msg1016084#msg1016084 date=1307094689]
Penny is dead on right with everything. Sad to say but I tell young men we hire who are moving into our area with family to raise their kids somewhere besides Nederland. Currently Nederland does not understand how to prepare for the future. Very sad.
[/quote]

This is just from the few kids we see transfer to my "former" rural district. About 5 years ago now, we had a small influx of kids transfer from Nederland to the district. The district I was in was 2A, in a rural setting. It has an "open" enrollment, and there is no out of district tuition charged. The kids generally lived with a relative or even drove to the school. Most would say " We had to get out of there." I was surprised at how far behind the kids were academically. I don't know what is going on there, but a kid who transferred from Nederland with A's and B's, would make B's and C's in our district. The kids would even make comments at how "hard" we were.
I don't know what is going on there, I had always thought of Nederland ISD as good district, but in the last 5 years, I have changed my mind. It makes me wonder?????
[/quote]

Ditto. A student transferred from Nederland to PN-G this year. Within three weeks, he dropped his two AP classes and he was gone a month later. The whole time, he talked about how much harder it was here and he always needed help to understand the work, even on the reviews. The sad part is that he's not the only student to come to PN-G and end up in that situation, and they're not just from Nederland.
[/quote]

That's why on awards night for seniors every year we have so many major university's giving out 4 year rides, I'm sure it's because they want to dumb down their enrollment ;D   
[/quote]

There is something wrong with Nederland, there really is. When our son was born years ago and we moved back to this area, our top choice school districts were PNG, Orangefield, LC-M, and Nederland. We wound up in LCM basically because we got more property than living in Mid-County. I'm sorry, but after I have taught a number of kids who came from Nederland and they enrolled in my AP classes and couldn't hang, well, there is something wrong.
dawgnut, percentage wise, all schools wind up with about the same number of full scholarship kids. I wonder from time to time how much politics is involved in these scholarships? Look, our top 15 kids got a ride to a 4 year school, and we only walked in the low 80s. ( And many of the others got some form of scholarship.)

[/quote]

Your right something is wrong, but it's not just Nederland! If you look at some of the recent studies on education you would find a startling trend. Most kids are not a whole lot smarter when they get out of the University than when they began. We still think of Universities as a place of higher learning, but they are really just a business. And that being what it is means that they can't fail them all. High Schools are no different. The real problem is we don't value education in this country any longer. We know who won American Idle, and what the top movie at the box office is, but the average student can't tell you how to find the circumference of a circle. All education is important, not just the class room, but we aren't smart enough to figure that out either. And before all the educators jump up out there just know this, I work with your best and brightest and it's amazing what they don't know.

The bottom line is we could cut all activities except the class room, and hire enough teachers so that each student could have their own and until the parents make education a high priority it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

[James Mosley]

Very well said dawgnut. 100% agree!!! Oh by the way, it's American Idol, not American Idle, although America being idle might be whats wrong too...Either way, well said and dead on right.

[KDOSullivan]

[i]Another factor is teacher participation. NHS teachers, for one reason or another, do not seem to sponsor as much outside of the classroom as they could. I remember a conversation with a now retired PN-G teacher in which I asked why Nederland didn't bring as many students to academic competitions as other local schools and his reply was that there just weren't enough Nederland teachers willing to sponsor the different academic events. That shocked me. I was amazed at the fact that Nederland couldn't get enough teachers to volunteer as most of the other schools in our district. I mean no offense to any Nederland faculty members because there are several good, dedicated teachers in NISD, but that, in my opinion, is deplorable. When the teachers won't participate, the problem isn't funding. A simple modification to the teacher contracts could fix that.[/i]

That one sort of shocks me. Maybe it is because I was at a small school, but I and most other teachers were involved in extracurricular activities.  I know this year, knowing I was retiring, I gave up somethings, but I was still a senior sponsor, helped organize graduation,  helped and planned with the homecoming parade, helped, planned the Christmas Formal, and then coached 3 UIL academic teams. One of the things I will miss about teaching will be the kids outside of class. Those in UIL Academics, those kids who worked to help set up dances and parades, and those are not just the "nerds." Maybe it is a small school, but we had athletes, band kids, those in FFA all work because they wanted a good dance or parade.

The modification of the contract might be difficult. If these events are held on weekends, it is sort of hard to force them to do so. Teachers are only paid for 187 days. Part of your problem might be you are not hiring the right people? I know some of the younger people that my former district has hired are reluctant to do anything extra. Part of concern about retiring was " who is going to pick up some of the extra jobs I did for the district?"

[SFA85]

[quote name="James Mosley" post="1016522" timestamp="1307264872"]
Very well said dawgnut. 100% agree!!! Oh by the way, it's American Idol, not American Idle, although America being idle might be whats wrong too...Either way, well said and dead on right.
[/quote]

He said it right the first time:  American Idle lol